Espiritism says suicidals are cursed to eternal suffering

[BitterlyAlive]

I know this is going to sound contradictory, but I am certain that death is the end and our consciousness cannot survive without a brain to generate it. All these spiritual people are scientifically ignorant and shouldn't be given an ounce of consideration.

Even if it is ignorant, I'll still choose to be spiritual because it provides a bit of peace and possible meaning in this shithole that I call life. Sorry.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I've read many books on neuroscience, comparative anatomy, consciousness, evolution, DNA, the brain , artificial intelligence and i'm a programmer working on artificial intelligence. imo the brain is machine. Artificial intelligence is advancing much faster than people realize. Soon there will be AGI then ASI. Artificial general intelligence then artificicial super intelligence.

But someone like r.penrose argues that consciousness cannot be algorithmic or computational in nature, using quite sophisticated arguments.
The brain may be machine-like in its biological operations and functions, but consciousness cannot be.
Consciousness may be located at a much deeper level, where notions like 'matter' and 'material' start to become problematic.

 

[262653]

@worried_to_death I thought today about some suicide related lyrics to an upbeat music, maybe something sarcastic to fit the tone, and the singer does silly movements on the scene and sings about how shitty life is not. I can't think of the exact words he would be using, I'm no writer, but I can imagine the cheering audience consisting solely of SS forum members.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

So do you think a robot or a computer will be more intelligent than a human or become self aware and achieve consciousness?

I don't know.
I definitely think that robots and computers will become more intelligent than humans (in lots of domains they already have), even magnitudes greater than human intelligence,
but I'm not sure about how self-awareness or consciousness hooks onto that.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

90% of the data has been created in the last 2 years. Information, technology is increasing at an exponential rate. The technological and artificial intelligence singularity is near imo.
We are on the edge of change comparable to the rise of human life on Earth. — Vernor Vinge
What does it feel like to stand here?

But even if machines somehow acquire consciousness, how will we ever know?
They may just imitate intelligence in a way which would make us attribute self-awareness to them, but without actually being self-aware?
(i.e. like a philosophical zombie).
Like, a machine can pass the turing test and make a human think they're talking to a self-aware being, but the machine isn't actually self-aware, it's just manipulating 1's and 0's according to pre-programmed algorithms in a very sophisticated manner.

 

[Wayfaerer]

But all those NDE's
And the hard problem of consciousness

(I don't actually disagree with what you've said, apart from your being certain of it.
I'm just being a contrarian)

Those are NEAR death experiences, with emphasis on NEAR. People have a lot of the same experiences when they're under the influence of hallucinogens, that doesn't mean that they are real either.

Even if it is ignorant, I'll still choose to be spiritual because it provides a bit of peace and possible meaning in this shithole that I call life. Sorry.

That's okay if that is what one wishes to do. I was directing my comment towards those who make shit up in order to fear-monger people (i.e. person OP heard that from).

 

[BitterlyAlive]

That's okay if that is what one wishes to do. I was directing my comment towards those who make shit up in order to fear-monger people (i.e. person OP heard that from).

I'm sorry, I got a bit defensive. I agree with you on that.

 

[Meditation guide]

I have no idea why this topic is even discussed on this forum. If someone thinks that then don't ctb. No reason to lay that on people who are suffering terribly.

This is so cruel, to suggest that people go to hell who ctb.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I have no idea why this topic is even discussed on this forum. If someone thinks that then don't ctb. No reason to lay that on people who are suffering terribly.

Right. Why kick people when they're already so far down? It's cruel.

 

[Wayfaerer]

I'm sorry, I got a bit defensive. I agree with you on that.

No need to apologize, I could see how someone would interpret it the way you did. I have a nasty habit of directing my words too broadly when I don't intend to.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

No need to apologize, I could see how someone would interpret it the way you did. I have a nasty habit of directing my words too broadly.

And I have a nasty habit of feeling like anything negative is directed towards me. It's a match made in hell

 

[SuicidalAgain]

I have heard this all my life too and it did creep into my mind at times... But I don't think so at all.

The way I see it, suicide isn't a much different death than any other. When you're seriously physically sick, that sickness will come to a point that it will kill you. I don't differentiate it all from psychological suffering... So to me, this is all bullshit because if there is a god out there that made these rules, he surely wouldn't make it so people who commit suicide will suffer eternally...

That is just manipulation to create fear in people's minds and try to stop them from killing themselves. They should totally go for other healthier tactics to prevent suicide.

 

[BipolarGuy]

All I have to say on the matter is this:

If religion is right and suicide is a sin, then why does God not prevent you from going through experiences that are so hurtful that you end up not wanting to be alive?

To drive someone to suicide as a test of faith, or to teach a biblical lesson, is far too excessive.

This is why I don't believe that a God exists.

 

[Meditation guide]

People who say things like people will have eternal suffering are simply making it up. They have no more insight into what happens than the rest of us.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

People have a lot of the same experiences when they're under the influence of hallucinogens, that doesn't mean that they are real either.

I think that conscious reality is produced very similarly to a hallucination.
The difference between the 'real world' and an 'anomalous' hallucination is the weight of consensus.
Otherwise, both rely on electrical impulses, neurotransmission, neurochemicals, interpretation and internal neural network models. Both are generated from the brain.
Maybe another difference is that a hallucination is the result of a sort of bug in the coding, an error in a program which a particular brain instantiates.
Which leads to the idea that this whole consensus universe might be a computer simulation/holographic projection created by some alien civilization outside of this universe.