Discussion Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)

[Ruffian]

Makes me feel even better about firing my mental health team many years ago.

YOU just made me feel great about firing I therapist I couldn't stand and put up with for years. I just stopped seeing another one because I just don't see the point anymore.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

That's really truly phrased.

I've known a schizophrenic who was forced into taking medication because of family members. The person became easily coerced in life and resembling someone who just trusts everyone as a good person. The person is now happy to abide by whatever a person desires them to do and without thinking about it. It's so freaky that the brain can be fucked to make a person like that and when originally the person was very stubborn in how they wanted their own life to be. Imagine if you had a controlling family that wanted something else for you and against your wishes with this procedure happening to you. That's a fate worse than death because my family members were religious idiots.

Then again some people probably would be alright with all of the above if everything was slightly different. Like having a partner that deeply cares about you in life and you trust won't ever leave you. Even if you're all not there for the person, maybe it's something a person would consider and otherwise the alternative is too cruel for the loved partner.

Sorry to butt in, but if you Google the history of psychiatry and its increasing involvement with government, you find all these reports including primary documents of the government encouraging the use of psychiatric diagnoses, record-keeping, and "treatments" as social engineering tools. Starting in elementary school.

 

[About_to_Go]

Sorry to butt in, but if you Google the history of psychiatry and its increasing involvement with government, you find all these reports including primary documents of the government encouraging the use of psychiatric diagnoses, record-keeping, and "treatments" as social engineering tools. Starting in elementary school.

Would you be able to provide links? Idk about everyone else but I find it hard to find anything critical of psychiatry with just a Google search.

 

[Misanthrope]

I have not personally had ECT but I saw many clients who had. So I will discuss them and maybe tackle some of the scariness being bandied about in this thread. For some, it was honestly like a miracle to them and they returned to their lives and never graced my door again. I saw it bring back someone from near catatonia and had some clients swear by it. Others who had it gained some benefit in the short term but relapsed later even with maintenance therapy. Others gained no benefit at all and lost some memory that added to their distress. Others memory loss remained permanent and others had it return months later.

Like all medicine, it is a gamble because human beings are all unique at the end of the day. There are times medicine does not know the root cause of something. There are many illnesses that exist even now that are not well understood but can still be treated to reduce symptomatology. Sometimes even the why something reduces a symptom is not fully understood, but the efficacy speaks for itself so they go ahead. ECT falls in that domain but has its risks. I am glad you are gaining some benefit from it. I hope that continues for you.

Electroconvulsive therapy: How modern techniques improve patient outcomes: Refinements have decreased memory loss, other adverse effects while retaining efficacy: Refinements have decreased memory loss, other adverse effects while retaining efficacy

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I wouldn't be too worried about claims of brain damage. There is nothing I have examined that demonstrates structural brain damage from modern ECT. It has certainly been examined. Also, you are not from the era of Hemingway. The current used is not enough to do any damage. Seizures generally don't cause brain damage either unless they are very severe. Since epileptics are not destined to wind up in residential homes in adult nappies this seems like media perception than reality.

The youtube video of Breggin you should take with more than a pinch of salt. Firstly he appears on quack watch for good reason as many of his claims he can not even back up with evidence especially involving ADHD. He has managed to inflate his credentials with the same aplomb as a politician but if you dig into them you can see what a facade it is. He is not certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, which is the recognized agency for certifying psychiatrists. However, he did have three years training... He has some good critiques of monetary incentive behind pharmacology but beyond that I have nothing positive to say.

All I can do is wish you all the best. Take care buddy, be gentle with yourself.

 

[Ruffian]

Would you be able to provide links? Idk about everyone else but I find it hard to find anything critical of psychiatry with just a Google search.

Ugh, Google is so complicit in cashing in on people with mental heath/ substance abuse disorders. I don't have a link, but you can specifically Google Addiction Inc. by the New York Times as a starting point. It's 4 articles detailing how different companies make $ off addicts seeking recovery. I know it's not all mental health issues, but one of the articles mentions Google specifically. How they set their algorithms so people seeking help get caught in their data tracking web and are directed to cash cow websites. If you can even find it now. I've tried other search engines like Duck Duck go & they aren't too much better. I think to get real information you would need access to a university search engine or library. Even then the universities are controlled by grants by big pharma. I have to go work now, but I'll see if I can find the name of a couple of documentaries that go over this. It's unbelievable how much profit can be made from us. In one of them a lawyer talks about how corporations were set up to have the the same rights as individuals. When technology & HMOs took over, combined with the ACA, it basically created a machine that no one can identify a cog to go in and try to stop it. The tentacles of this monster are truly mind boggling and sickening.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Would you be able to provide links? Idk about everyone else but I find it hard to find anything critical of psychiatry with just a Google search.

This will be a small project as you're right that Google is very pro-establishment (especially as regards the dominant Western hypotheses of mental health). But there is good counter-literature out there. I'll hunt some links down and share. Give me a little while.

 

[Jodes]

Just like mainstream psychiatrists built their career on doling out pills and administering shock treatment. What's your point? If he's a fraud who spreads falsehoods (i.e ECT does not damage the brain and has no averse effects) it would be easy to prove, wouldn't it?

Dr. Breggin started his career as a mainstream psychiatrist and he would have had a great career no matter what he decided to do. Opposing psychiatry for its harmful treatments is much harder and certainly less lucrative than going along with it.

I would never subject myself to such a barbaric, injurous non-treatment like ECT. If I do decide to live I need my brain intact for both economic and personal reasons.

I suffered enough damage due to psychiatry's quackery. If it ever evolves into an actual science-based medical discipline that discovers biological roots to depression and the exact mechanism by which one gets depressed I'll be the first in line to get treatment as I'm very much pro medicine and pro science. Not to mention very much anti suffering.


How do you define 'helping someone'? I'd wait to see whether a) this 'treatment' produces actual results and b) whether there aren't any lasting negative side-effects. Going to a witchdoctor might actually 'help' in the sense that people who believe in that sort of thing will probably feel better but that is not medicine and offers a pseudo-solution at best.

It seems to help some therefore it's a bona fide medical treatment... By that logic praying could be considered a medical treatment as it usually produces positive feelings in those that engage in it and offers an antidote to despair and mental suffering.

The OP should do what he/she thinks best. I will not be silent on a matter I feel strongly about but everyone should make up their own mind and decide what is appropriate for them.

If I know what the damage might be, and what it might fix, I might go for it. I think your opinion is extremely valuable, as probably one of the greatest critics among us! I agree with @Meretlein that it is easily still a better-than-not treatment for @About_to_Go by the sounds of it. I wouldn't, personally, purely because there are a few but important things I need to remember. Ironic - It's the ways of CTBing that I've learnt and experienced - they're my calming backup if life really goes tits up. But other than that, I'd do fucking anything to alleviate my suffering. If I could just find the motivation.

 

[bluesleep]

I tried it last year, I had 6 sessions. I felt better for a few days then it all went back to hell. It was expensive and I wouldn't recomend it.

 

[About_to_Go]

I tried it last year, I had 6 sessions. I felt better for a few days then it all went back to hell. It was expensive and I wouldn't recomend it.

I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you :/ . Luckily, I don't have to pay for my treatment where I live.

 

[AveryConure]

I was told to get it once but I have serious memory issues whether ppl believe DID is a valid illness or not so I seriously wouldn't benefit from it at all. Despite the scaremongering in this thread (but w/e it's not against the law to discuss how shitty psychiatry can seriously be) if you tried everything and it helped you out I say keep going for it. I've known people who were helped by it so guess if you have nothing else and the fact they changed a shitload about it since the 60's where they literally prescribed it for everything.

 

[alizee]

Thought I would post this here:

The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com