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Shu

Shu

As above, So Below.
Jan 21, 2022
2,487
Just came across this. I would like to hear you guys thoughts on this.

 
Life_and_Death

Life_and_Death

Do what's best for you 🕯️ I'm............
Jul 1, 2020
7,031
Considering I recently read about teens that went through the surgery and only AFTER it was completed decided it wasn't for them, I think it's a better idea for them to wait but support their preferred gender as best as you can in the meantime.
 
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Bootleg Astolfo

Bootleg Astolfo

Glorious Bean Plushie
Oct 12, 2020
832
As a kid I was convinced for a year or two that i was a fox.
I don't think i can explain any further without being cancelled by woke people on twitter.
 
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C

chloramine

Mage
Apr 18, 2022
504
From everything I've read on the subject major surgeries are rarely performed on minors in the first place. I support hormone blockers being readily available because those are safe while also leaving all options open and decreasing dysphoria. In that article specifically there seems to be a lot of information missing. There's a whole lot of correlation and no causation. In 2010 it was harder to be trans in the first place (not that it's easy now) and just because you can seek care doesn't mean a doctor will provide it. There's also the issue of whether those doctors would out the minors seeing as they only the mentioned the California law in terms of doctors not being allowed to out minors. The article sounds like it's twisting language and information to support their conclusions rather than finding conclusions after looking at a bank of evidence.

Also in my personal experience with friends who have transitioned they have not regretted it and it has made them happier more stable people. It makes sense for there to be checks and balances in place, but honestly most places already have those and denying any type of gender affirming care (which includes things like hormone blockers) is stupid.
 
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SofterSoftest

SofterSoftest

Student
Dec 30, 2021
186
The original study on which this idea is based is totally flawed methodologically. Basically, the researchers report on the rise of suicides in youth living in states with greater access to gender-affirming care, without controlling for the vast majority of possible confounding third variables. One of the key confounding variables, for example, is that after the economic downturn of 2008, many "blue" (primarily urban) states, presumably the same ones with greater access to gender-affirming care, did report a sharp increase in suicide rates, because there was a lot of migration to urban centres that was motivated by poverty. The report is authored by the Heritage Foundation, which has historically denied climate change, so the idea that their study is scientifically poor is not at all at odds with its track record. The body of (credible, robust) scientific literature in this area overwhelmingly suggests that physical and mental health outcomes improve for trans kids when they have access to gender-affirming care.

I'm not saying transition is a panacea for trans kids, but denying people bodily autonomy is not really a way to quell suicidal feelings. I think many of us here can agree to that.
 
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NoLightRemains

NoLightRemains

I found my light again. Namu Amida Butsu
Sep 26, 2021
374
The original study on which this idea is based is totally flawed methodologically. Basically, the researchers report on the rise of suicides in youth living in states with greater access to gender-affirming care, without controlling for the vast majority of possible confounding third variables. One of the key confounding variables, for example, is that after the economic downturn of 2008, many "blue" (primarily urban) states, presumably the same ones with greater access to gender-affirming care, did report a sharp increase in suicide rates, because there was a lot of migration to urban centres that was motivated by poverty. The report is authored by the Heritage Foundation, which has historically denied climate change, so the idea that their study is scientifically poor is not at all at odds with its track record. The body of (credible, robust) scientific literature in this area overwhelmingly suggests that physical and mental health outcomes improve for trans kids when they have access to gender-affirming care.

I'm not saying transition is a panacea for trans kids, but denying people bodily autonomy is not really a way to quell suicidal feelings. I think many of us here can agree to that.
This sums up my thoughts well. I was very skeptical of anything coming from the Heritage Foundation, and reading the article I could find no compelling evidence to support their claims. Just a very poor, science-sounding article that conservative policymakers will use as evidence to control the autonomy of parents and gender nonconforming youth.

I also have not seen any evidence about permanent, surgical interventions for minors, but that's a big conservative talking point nowadays. The main intervention for minors is puberty suppressing drugs which are reversible. I was a trans youth back in the 2000s and a big thing that makes me suicidal is my father was opposed to puberty blockers despite medical/mental health professionals supporting it. The current political discourse around trans healthcare makes me feel sick, as I feel these interventions would have drastically increased my quality of life.
Considering I recently read about teens that went through the surgery and only AFTER it was completed decided it wasn't for them, I think it's a better idea for them to wait but support their preferred gender as best as you can in the meantime.
Can you link me this source where teens are getting surgery? I cannot find this
 
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wait.what

wait.what

no really, what?
Aug 14, 2020
990
First of all, never look to the Heritage Foundation for medical information of any kind. That is not what they do. They exist as a means of enshrining a particular brand of conservative Protestant Christianity into United States law. You can love 'em, you can hate 'em, you can not care about 'em, but never confuse them with doctors, psychologists, or academic researchers.

For those who may be uncertain of how medical transition works, both for adults and minors, I will describe it briefly.

Prepubescent children: Kids who have not yet reached puberty aren't usually described as "trans" at all. The preferred term is "gender expansive," which is a way to acknowledge that a kid isn't interested in staying in their little assigned gender box, without saying for certain what their adult gender identity is going to be. Younger kids don't "medically transition" as such, because there's not really a need to. If a kid is 6, just let them have a hairstyle and clothes that make them comfortable. Roll with name and pronoun preferences, which may well change. No, you do not have to alter records at the kid's elementary school and pediatrician every other day, because a small kid doesn't know about that stuff and doesn't care.

Pubescent children: If a kid is showing signs of entering puberty and the changes are distressing them, you can essentially "hit the pause button" with puberty blockers. Personally, I'd like to see this option given to cis children as well. Early-developing girls in particular frequently find themselves in sexually-charged situations that they don't entirely understand and do not feel ready for. This can happen to any child, however, whatever their gender or sexual orientation. Puberty blockers can safely be used for quite a long time. I do know one person who took them into early adulthood. That was an unusual situation, but even so, there were no ill effects. That young person decided which direction they wanted their puberty to go during their first or second year as a college student, and they're fine.

Older adolescents: Young people mature at different rates, so I can't give a "magic age" at which all of them are able to make mature and informed decisions for themselves. However, I think anyone who has been a caregiver for kids approaching adulthood understands that there is a transitional period of time where young people's desires and preferences are given significant weight, but guardian adults make the final decision. A framework for this situation already exists for trans kids, in the form of WPATH guidelines. These have actually just been updated with specific regard to minors. For the record, I think WPATH is damn weird when applied to fully grown adults, which it often is. I medically transitioned in my mid-40's. I still had to play "Mother May I" and get written permission from my therapist in order to start hormones and seek surgery. While that's inappropriate for a middle-aged person, I think it can make sense when the patient seeking medical transition is in the gray zone between 15 and 17.

Not that anyone asked, but:

1) Please be aware that HRT is not birth control. Unless a surgeon has actually gone in and disconnected your babymakin' bits, you can be, or can get someone else, pregnant. Proceed with due caution.
2) It's EXTREMELY difficult to get surgically sterilized if you are a person who owns a womb. Nobody is giving elective hysterectomies to minors. I'm having a hell of a time getting one, and I'm nearly 50. Nobody's giving vasectomies to minors, either, although if you're 18+ and AMAB you're allowed more autonomy over your body.
 
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AllByMyself

AllByMyself

Member
Jun 16, 2022
22
My opinion,yes I said opinion!!!😮,is that terrible crimes are being committed against young people.
All this transgender shit is bullshit. You're gonna say that Bruce Jenner,a hyper strong Olympic champion,who fathered four kids, whose body is 100% male,is,somewhere in some magical corner of his mind,has some kind of magic spirit that is really female?
Well,whatever,just my thoughts. Modern Western people will accept lots of bullshit. And scream like violent maniacs if their beliefs are doubted.😮
 
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wait.what

wait.what

no really, what?
Aug 14, 2020
990
You're gonna say that Bruce Jenner,a hyper strong Olympic champion,who fathered four kids, whose body is 100% male,is,somewhere in some magical corner of his mind,has some kind of magic spirit that is really female?
Yup. That's what I'm saying. You can disbelieve me if you like, but if you call up Caitlyn Jenner, I think she'll tell you the same. She lives with herself all the time, so I expect she knows.
 
NSA

NSA

Your friendly neighborhood agent
Feb 21, 2022
270
My opinion,yes I said opinion!!!😮,is that terrible crimes are being committed against young people.
All this transgender shit is bullshit. You're gonna say that Bruce Jenner,a hyper strong Olympic champion,who fathered four kids, whose body is 100% male,is,somewhere in some magical corner of his mind,has some kind of magic spirit that is really female?
Well,whatever,just my thoughts. Modern Western people will accept lots of bullshit. And scream like violent maniacs if their beliefs are doubted.😮
I wouldn't say "magic spirit", more like some kind of neurological thing. It's still a thing though, and not actually hurting anyone, (except religious nutcases' delicate sensibilities) so why not just let them be?

 
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