Double standards concerning men can get completely ignored or even approved by "feminists"

[JustSwingingTheD]

I (male) was reading this book "come as you are", because i heard its great and I wanted to learn about the female sexuality. I'm about 70 pages in and so far its quite interesting, i've actually already learned something about my own sexuality, which is if possible even more interesting than learning about chicks. That said, I had to stop reading and write this after reading a quote from some anonymous woman, describing her personal sexual "brakes" like this:

"you might have some inclinations and then youre like, -wait a minute you cant do that that guy is a loser-" the quote wasn't noted in anyway as something weird or offensive by the author.

I got a bit pissed off about this. The thing that bothers me about it is that you literally never hear women being described as "losers" or "incels" (no difference really) by men, no matter how broke or otherwise pathetic they might be. Women seem to have this mystical initial worth as human beings that men don't have. I don't remember ever hearing the word loser being used about a woman i knew, women might talk about themselves and other women like this, but i've never witnessed that either.

So to me, it was suspiciously lot like quoting a man saying "you might have some inclinations but then you're like - wait a minute you cant do that, this girl is a total slut-". Think about the scandal that would happen if a male author made a book about male sexuality, and then casually put a quote like that in there. I guess that some toxic "male self-improvement" internet guru might do just that, but nobody takes those clowns seriously anyways. This was supposed to be a greatly educating book.

In the very same book (in some later pages) its made clear how important it is for women to love themselves as they are, no matter how fat or ugly they might be. In fact, there apparently is no such thing as fat or ugly when it comes to women, everyone is beautiful and blablabla yadadada. So i guess it's okay pointing out that there are men out there who clearly are losers, but when it comes to women they can't be fat/ugly/slutty or otherwise unattractive and when it comes to women, no flaw is really a flaw.

The areas in which different sexes are expected to perform in life, and consequently get shamed in, differ. What matters is respect. We all need some of it, the male losers and the female losers. Lack of it, especially coming from the opposite sex can be very harmful.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

Reading any book about that reminds me how divorced I am from regular normal people. This is all very sad. I'm sorry.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

Reading any book about that reminds me how divorced I am from regular normal people. This is all very sad. I'm sorry.

I don't think i'm a very good representative of regular normal people either. Just wanted to point out that there is no realistic scenario where a man is going at it with a woman and then starts thinking "this chick is a loser" and gets turned off as a result. Loser usually pointing to lack of intelligence and/or unsuccessful careers. That makes the line of thought a double standard.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

I don't think i'm a very good representative of regular normal people either. Just wanted to point out that there is no realistic scenario where a man is going at it with a woman and then starts thinking "this chick is a loser" and gets turned off as a result. That makes the line of thought a double standard.

Do you think the author even represents all women?

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

Do you think the author even represents all women?

Not at all but i picked it up because i've heard very good things about it. So it kind of left me feeling irritated.

I mean i guess this was educating as well, learning that women can actually get turned off by thoughts of male.. lack of achievements? As in, you already think that someone is sexually attractive enough to get turned on by them, but then you have to stop and remind yourself that it's not enough by itself, that they have to be go-getters on top of that? Women really are different.

 

[theboy]

Being a man these days is perdition

 

[Chinaski]

Yeah men never discuss women in derogatory or objectifying terms, acute observations right here in this thread, you are all very intelligent.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

Yeah men never discuss women in derogatory or objectifying terms, acute observations right here in this thread, you are all very intelligent.

Amazing passive aggressive response that contributed nothing to this thread besides adding fuel to the fire.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

Yeah men never discuss women in derogatory or objectifying terms, acute observations right here in this thread, you are all very intelligent.

Completely besides my point, which was that most people nowadays are acutely aware of the double standards that affect women negatively, apparently not so much vice versa. Why don't you piss off if you have nothing to say?

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

It's a book written by a woman and marketed to women. Of course it's going to kiss their asses. Authors by and large aren't interested in objective truth. They're interested in sales, and they know the people reading their books want to feel good about themselves.

I mean we all know these "Hey girl, you're a badass!" books are probably a bit silly, but I think we also know to take them with a grain of salt.

 

[Chinaski]

Completely besides my point, which was that most people nowadays are acutely aware of the double standards that affect women negatively, apparently not so much vice versa. Why don't you piss off if you have nothing to say?

Both women and men can choose their partners on whatever basis they wish and nobody owes you a fuck. People who obsess over "status" will seek a higher status partner, people who prioritise intelligence will find an intelligent partner, people with a sense of humour will gravitate towards people who make them laugh, people who prefer not to go out with assholes will avoid assholes - women can choose their partners just like you can and talking of "double standards" just because some women don't like "losers" as partners is to ignore all the disqualifying superficial criteria applied to women since time immemorial, you're talking shit imo.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

It's a book written by a woman and marketed to women. Of course it's going to kiss their asses. Authors by and large aren't interested in objective truth. They're interested in sales, and they know the people reading their books want to feel good about themselves.

I mean we all know these "Hey girl, you're a badass!" books are probably a bit silly, but I think we also know to take them with a grain of salt.

The book really had some interesting points about mental blocks and such so far so i guess that fueled my annoyance somewhat. If it felt like one of those books you described i probably wouldn't have cared. I probably would have thrown it away after 20-30 pages.

Both women and men can choose their partners on whatever basis they wish and nobody owes you a fuck. People who obsess over "status" will seek a higher status partner, people who prioritise intelligence will find an intelligent partner, people with a sense of humour will gravitate towards people who make them laugh, people who prefer not to go out with assholes will avoid assholes - women can choose their partners just like you can and talking of "double standards" just because some women don't like "losers" as partners is to ignore all the disqualifying superficial criteria applied to women since time immemorial, you're talking shit imo.

Yeah it's just that that the same exact superficial criteria applies to men too.

I already pointed out that there is no realistic scenario where a man is going at it with a woman and then starts thinking "this chick is a loser" and gets turned off as a result. Loser usually pointing to lack of intelligence and/or unsuccessful career/careers. That makes the line of thought a double standard. Men are expected to be more successful career/money wise, kind of like women are expected to be more virtuous and less sexually adventurous, hint hint. That is, if i have to think of an example that doesn't apply to the opposite sex in a similar manner.

I also just realized that the author (a female) probably didn't even understand how improbable it is that a man would kind of want to have sex with someone and then get turned off by that someone's "loserness".

 

[Chinaski]

It's not a double standard, all people, literally every single person on the fucking planet, has a criteria as to which people they would and would not sleep with.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

It's not a double standard

Yes it is

 

[lonelygirl111]

stereotypes make it seem like women only wanna have sex with men if they have money or materialistic things that make them not a "loser", while men only wanna have sex with women if they find them attractive and innocent. i guess for some people this is reality but i hope that for most it's not because it makes both sexes seem really shallow

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

stereotypes make it seem like women only wanna have sex with men if they have money or materialistic things that make them not a "loser", while men only wanna have sex with women if they find them attractive and innocent. i guess for some people this is reality but i hope that for most it's not because it makes both sexes seem really shallow

Sure there are more nuances to it than this, but i guess this is how it goes, somewhat.

Although I must say that as a man, i personally never quite got the sexual "innocence" part myself, meaning i can't understand what's so attractive about sexually inexperienced women. I don't care how many men they've been with, in fact having a large body count could even make things more interesting, chances are that at least they are not boring in the sack if they have been around. God forbid i fall in love with some frigid person and am blue balled for life.

Sure, i think that there are certain types of women that usually have a) very unattractive personalities and b) usually quite promiscuous lifestyles. But with that i mean women with certain cluster b personality disorders. These types also usually know how to "play" innocent absurdly well.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

What did the quoted person mean by "loser"? Did the book specify? I've heard guys get called losers for being total assholes before.

 

[Chinaski]

What did the quoted person mean by "loser"? Did the book specify? I've heard guys get called losers for being total assholes before.

I think it was meant in terms of success/status, which is why literally everybody on an annual income which doesn't hit six figures is a virgin for life. This is why there are absolutely no working class people in the world, they are societally engineered to cease breeding by feminists.

Amazing passive aggressive response that contributed nothing to this thread besides adding fuel to the fire.

It wasn't passive, also if you want whole-hearted agreement for bullshit like this there are websites which cater specifically for it.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

What did the quoted person mean by "loser"? Did the book specify? I've heard guys get called losers for being total assholes before.

It didn't specify but i think that's a pretty strange connotation. I think that the universal meaning points to lack of success/status, in terms of career, money, fame, whatever you have. Assholes are assholes.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

It didn't specify but i think that's a pretty strange connotation. I think that the universal meaning points to lack of success/status, in terms of career, money, fame, whatever you have. Assholes are assholes.

Eh, like I said, women call men losers for more reasons that just being unsuccessful. You're getting kind of worked up over one quote that isn't even from the author of the book, and you're not even 100% sure about what the quoted person meant by loser. Maybe the guy had bad hygiene or he had 1000 my little pony figures or something.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

It wasn't passive, also if you want whole-hearted agreement for bullshit like this there are websites which cater specifically for it.

Who said I wanted that?

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

Eh, like I said, women call call men losers for more reasons that just being unsuccessful. You're getting kind of worked up over one quote that isn't even from the author of the book, and you're not even 100% sure about what the quoted person meant by loser. Maybe the guy had bad hygiene or he had 100 my little pony figures or something.

Yeah but how likely is that? That's like thinking "yeah he called that girl a slut but it's just because he doesn't like her personality or something". What difference does it make in the context? It's not my responsibility to come up with an unlikely explanation that makes them the good guy of the situation.

I know what a loser means, it's pretty much the same in every language and culture i'm aware of. I didn't get worked up for nothing, it was sort of fucked up to put that in the book and that's a fact.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Yeah but how likely is that? That's like thinking "yeah he called that girl a slut but it's just because he doesn't like her personality or something". What difference does it make in the context? It's not my responsibility to come up with an unlikely explanation that makes them the good guy of the situation.

I know what a loser means, it's pretty much the same in every language and culture i'm aware of. I didn't get worked up for nothing, it was sort of fucked up to put that in the book and that's a fact.

To me, slut is a lot more specific than loser.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

To me, slut is a lot more specific than loser.

I sort of agree, but as i pointed out i don't recall ever having witnessed anyone calling a female person loser, not in my personal life or in any forms of entertainment i have consumed countless hours of. The other way around, countless times. So it kind of works as a comparison.

And this wouldn't be the case if the word wouldn't have it's very clear meaning pointing to status/success.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I sort of agree, but as i pointed out i don't recall ever having witnessed anyone calling a female person loser, not in my personal life or in any forms of entertainment i have consumed countless hours of. The other way around, countless times. So it kind of works as a comparison.

And this wouldn't be the case if the word wouldn't have it's very clear meaning pointing to status/success.

You've never heard a high school girl call another girl a loser? I wish I'd gone to your high school, lol.

Edit* or even a high school boy calling a girl a loser. I've heard it.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

You've never heard a high school girl call another girl a loser? I wish I'd gone to your high school, lol.

Ugly, fat, weird, slutty, whatever you have, these are the things nice high-school girls and boys usually go with around here when they are slinging shit at other girls/women.

Loser is kind of too light-hearted to hurt, i guess it's something a girl might "playfully" say about her friend, or "semi-friend"? Again, perhaps just like you might jokingly call a promiscuous man a "slut"?

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

"you might have some inclinations and then youre like, -wait a minute you cant do that that guy is a loser-" the quote wasn't noted in anyway as something weird or offensive by the author.

I can't really complain about this, I'm way worse (even now, as a desperate simp). I wouldn't give oral sex, or even kiss, a non-virgin. This is at my lowest, where maybe around 0.01% of women would be open to dating me, and I am eliminating about 95% of that small amount (beggar and chooser, simultaneously). I don't understand how I'm in the minority, either. Around 5-15 guys have had sex with her mouth, and you are kissing her? Marrying her? I don't get it; don't think I'm cut out for this waste bin of a society. I might be fine with it if she like dispassionately rode a guy once (with a condom, ofc) or something; but if she was submissive during sex or had a dick in her face, I just can't.

And, hey, when I was narced up and had options, I rejected fucking everyone (no pun intended). Not just my fault, though, since very few of the ladies were direct about indicating interest. If I had been getting asked out in writing (or at the very least in speech, followed by a waiting period), instead of some shitty "body language" cues or chaotic gestures (random hug/jumping out in front of you/some comments about you in the hallway/etc), I doubt I would be on this forum.

 

[CowsAreCool]

Yeah men never discuss women in derogatory or objectifying terms, acute observations right here in this thread, you are all very intelligent.

False equivalency. Men discussing women in derogatory terms isn't even remotely normalized. You get shut down for that, real quick.

Both women and men can choose their partners on whatever basis they wish and nobody owes you a fuck. People who obsess over "status" will seek a higher status partner, people who prioritise intelligence will find an intelligent partner, people with a sense of humour will gravitate towards people who make them laugh, people who prefer not to go out with assholes will avoid assholes - women can choose their partners just like you can and talking of "double standards" just because some women don't like "losers" as partners is to ignore all the disqualifying superficial criteria applied to women since time immemorial, you're talking shit imo.

He never said they couldn't judge men. He said that speaking of them in that way is demeaning. Again, you aren't arguing in good faith. That or you're illiterate. My guess is a combination of the two

 

[Chinaski]

False equivalency. Men discussing women in derogatory terms isn't even remotely normalized. You get shut down for that, real quick.

Lmao, how the fuck is this even remotely true, some bullshit book has outlined some criteria for prospective sexual partners, we literally all do this, it's not a hard and fast criteria for all of womankind and the prissy, whiny reaction to it is hilarious. So you're not going to hook up with the type of women who prioritise status in the form of acquisition above all else. So what?

I love how YOU'RE NOT ARGUING IN GOOD FAITH has become a trope here, it's some catch-all group of words used erroneously online so regularly it no longer has any meaning. This thread is bollocks and it needs saying, you can stick your "good faith" until you find out what it means.

 

[ever so lonely]

there are some nasty feminists out there for sure some opposed by women, i remember an article written by a feminist that claimed men are born inherent rapists and demons and they should be culled, i have never felt so aggrieved reading an article before i felt so angry, like she was implying that al men are bad which simply isnt true, they have created these double standards in society, men are often ignored or invalidated told to man up, i would wager money on that is why male suicide rates be so morbidly depressingly high, but again bro nobody gives a fuck, i feel for women too they must have there own struggles, but men are often silenced there is evidence of this everywhere you look, pretty depressing