Discussion Does suicide have to be rational

[Iman]

Why is it okay for example to quit your job, smoke cigarettes; basically make any decisions based on feelings/ on what you prefer? But it's not okay when it's about suicide.

It doesn't seem rational to create such an insane amount of variety. Would it not be best to just work towards affordable food and water supply, instead of creating more and more variation. Shouldn't we be content with just the necessities.

Saying it would get boring or something along those lines shouldn't be a consideration, because maybe you just have a depression and need to get pumped full of various medication to be able to appreciate it.

Maybe that person that gets bullied constantly just needs some meds too, because then he won't feel bad about getting treated like shit.

Maybe we all could be content, just watching paint dry in our spare time every single day, if we just had the right medication.

Why can't I kill myself, when I just feel like it. Why is there such a need to justify the decision to ctb.

Who get's to decide how you should feel about certain things.

Personally I feel like having to justify ctb only feeds into a negative mindset and deprives me to some extent further of happiness.

For example:
Oh, caught myself laughing.
Maybe I don't really want to die and I don't have enough justification to do so.
Let me find more reasons why the world is shit and it's not worth living.​

Could anyone give me some insight please, especially from the perspective of a pro-lifer.

 

[Redt2go]

Well for the first paragraph most people do those for health reasons so they're rational... But no I don't think your suicide has to be rational. That's between you and God if you believe in a higher power. Whats the point in explaining? To get someone to condone what you're doing... Will it matter if they condone it if your dead? Obligatory "does anything at all matter??" No. Lol I'm kidding.... People matter

 

[Iman]

Well for the first paragraph most people do those for health reasons so they're rational... But no I don't think your suicide has to be rational. That's between you and God if you believe in a higher power. Whats the point in explaining? To get someone to condone what you're doing... Will it matter if they condone it if your dead? Obligatory "does anything at all matter??" No. Lol I'm kidding.... People matter

I mean, there are a bunch of people smoking and that doesn't seem very rational. Whenever I ask why they do, they just say to relax, take off stress.

I made this thread, because I am kind of conflicted.
I talked to people in real life about ctb. Told them I want to kill myself. They said: "You can't".
And right after they tell me I shouldn't do work that I don't want to do. So it's like, I don't need to force myself to work, but have to force myself to live?

People also always say, you should do the things that you want to do. But what if I feel like I want to do nothing more than kill myself.

I just don't know how to make any decisions anymore.

 

[Redt2go]

I mean, there are a bunch of people smoking and that doesn't seem very rational. Whenever I ask why they do, they just say to relax, take off stress.

I made this thread, because I am kind of conflicted.
I talked to people in real life about ctb. Told them I want to kill myself. They said: "You can't".
And right after they tell me I shouldn't do work that I don't want to do. So it's like, I don't need to force myself to work, but have to force myself to live?

People also always say, you should do the things that you want to do. But what if I feel like I want to do nothing more than kill myself.

I just don't know how to make any decisions anymore.

Sounds like they just want you to be happy... Sometimes you won't feel suicidal. If your not sure try living

 

[Iman]

Sounds like they just want you to be happy... Sometimes you won't feel suicidal. If your not sure try living

Yeah, they do
I am trying
I just wanted to understand why it's okay to quit a job that you don't enjoy, but it's not okay to quit life

 

[Redt2go]

Just because it's "okay" to some doesn't mean it'll be okay to everyone.... There's not really any universal truths in life.... At least if there are there's always special situations or arguments to rebut them. So you could live or die it's up to you

 

[Iman]

Just because it's "okay" to some doesn't mean it'll be okay to everyone.... There's not really any universal truths in life.... At least if there are there's always special situations or arguments to rebut them. So you could live or die it's up to you

Well, I guess I can't argue with that

 

[WhiteRabbit]

While I agree that smoking is irrational (if you want to live), I don't think smoking and straight up killing yourself are comparable to most people.

Humans are afraid of death and I don't think they can wrap their heads around someone who wants to die willingly. It seems unatural and wrong to them. That's why you get a lot of pushback if you talk about ctb.

Just do what you think is right for you.

 

[Iman]

While I agree that smoking is irrational (if you want to live), I don't think smoking and straight up killing yourself are comparable to most people.

Humans are afraid of death and I don't think they can wrap their heads around someone who wants to die willingly. It's seems unatural and wrong to them. That's why you get a lot of pushback if you talk about ctb.

Just do what you think is right for you.

Makes sense
Appreciate the insight

 

[color_me_gone]

One thing is for sure, and that is this:

You do what you do for YOU.

You need to base your choice only on how bad you are suffering,
and whether or not you feel it could get better in the future.

The only advice I would give is if you are age 14-25,
those are years when nearly everyone suffers some depression, some less, some more.
Most who live through that stage, find that things do get better, but not always.
I went through that, gave it a chance, and things did get better, but didn't disappear completely.
Now, at 66, and retired, it is back again. I am trying to hang on, but I am on this website so......

I myself, don't pay attention to pro-lifers, because I think they are selfish people.
Pro-lifers cannot comprehend, nor want to make any effort to comprehend, what we are going through.

 

[Iman]

One thing is for sure, and that is this:

You do what you do for YOU.

You need to base your choice only on how bad you are suffering,
and whether or not you feel it could get better in the future.

The only advice I would give is if you are age 14-25,
those are years when nearly everyone suffers some depression, some less, some more.
Most who live through that stage, find that things do get better, but not always.
I went through that, gave it a chance, and things did get better, but didn't disappear completely.
Now, at 66, and retired, it is back again. I am trying to hang on, but I am on this website so......

I myself, don't pay attention to pro-lifers, because I think they are selfish people.
Pro-lifers cannot comprehend, nor want to make any effort to comprehend, what we are going through.

The thing is
I do feel like I can get better, it's not like I feel completely hopeless
But I have gotten to the point where non-existence just seems like the most appealing option
So even when I have good days it's more like: "I wouldn't mind to keep living"
Rather than: "I want to live/ I am glad I am alive"

But I will try to give it atleast a few more years. Current age 23

 

[color_me_gone]

Current age 23

Yep, that is the age.
As I said, it got better for me, but never went completely away.

 

[Iman]

Yep, that is the age.
As I said, it got better for me, but never went completely away.

Good to know.
Whenever I heard: "It gets better"
I interpreted it as:"Life is going to be awesome and you will regret having killed yourself".
But hearing that it never goes completely away is kind of what I needed to hear.
That's something that I can work with.

 

[Redt2go]

The thing is
I do feel like I can get better, it's not like I feel completely hopeless
But I have gotten to the point where non-existence just seems like the most appealing option
So even when I have good days it's more like: "I wouldn't mind to keep living"
Rather than: "I want to live/ I am glad I am alive"

But I will try to give it atleast a few more years. Current age 23

I'm in the same situation

 

[color_me_gone]

I used to hear that crap from shrinks, so I know what you mean.
On SS, we know what we know from our own experiences, so no BS, one way or the other.
Good luck to you. Glad I was able to help!

 

[Amber1974]

Good to know.
Whenever I heard: "It gets better"
I interpreted it as:"Life is going to be awesome and you will regret having killed yourself".
But hearing that it never goes completely away is kind of what I needed to hear.
That's something that I can work with.

It is literally impossible to regret anything when you are dead, because u are dead, so not an issue

 

[Death.]

The question of whether suicide ought to be rational is one that, in the greater scheme of things, does not really matter.

All living things were born to die and the act of suicide is merely expediting the inevitable, which is death.

Is it more courageous and noble to end one's life by one's own hand or attempt to continue living and willingly suffer unnecessarily until natural death...

 

[Iman]

The question of whether suicide ought to be rational is one that, in the greater scheme of things, does not really matter.

All living things were born to die and the act of suicide is merely expediting the inevitable, which is death.

Is it more courageous and noble to end one's life by one's own hand or attempt to continue living and willingly suffer unnecessarily until natural death...

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Iman]

Because there just might be something you over looked that could in fact save you from doing one of most ultimate acts upon yourself.

To me it seems like that you value the idea of life/being alive quite a lot.

Health is also very important, yet there is such an abundance of obesity and people that smoke and or drink alcohol,
which drastically reduces your overall health.
Why is it so accepted by society to let you ruin your health like that after turning into an "adult".
even though it doesn't seem very rational.

Why is the one irrational choice okay, but not the other. Just because you value the one thing more than the other?

 

[Iman]

Why should I not value life? That would make no sense not to, wouldn't it?

It could make sense, depending on your point of view.

 

[Iman]

I did mention health. To die with dignity is all about health. Every bit of it is.

Yeah
You basically said every option needs to be analyzed, checked and tested, if you want to kill yourself, to make sure it's the right decision.
Applying extreme reasonable and analytical thinking and procedure.
But why only regarding suicide.
Shouldn't the same be applied to everything in life?

 

[Iman]

I have no clue what your getting at ..

I desire life while I'm alive. I embrace life as I live it i cherish life as I grow thru it.

It sounds to me like your trying to put me down because I value my life as I'm alive.

Just because I'm on the SS forum I should just atuomatically dispise my life 100 percent? That it makes me automatically suicidal? Or I should be warned to others because of my perspective?

You can feel and think however and whatever you want.
I was just trying to say that there are different point of views.

Why should I not value life?

That just seemed like such an final statement to me.
Like there is 100percent reason to value life.

 

[Iman]

I guess I assumed you already did since you are alive now. It should at least be one of your responsibilities already, that you are. At least I would think so. I would think it would be on your top 5 things of doing already. Your alive and breathing, why wouldn't you want to examine yourself and understand yourself more thoroughly for the better or for the worse? Just walk around not thinking about anything? That wouldn't be proactive at all. And in fact, it would be boring as hell.

Not sure if I am just getting tired, but I have the feeling we start talking past each other more and more.

 

[Iman]

And there isnt a 100 percent reason to value life?
I would think you would value your life if you are living your life. If not, go kill yourself right now.
I value my life at the moment. I really don't care if you value your life or not. I'm not talking about others. I'm talking about you. You have one life to live and therefore, your going to say I don't value my life because of what ever reason, I'm just a failure, I give up, I can't go on anymore, what to do? Sounds like a real opportunistic life you got. I would at least think you would try and work on some things while you are still alive. Why would you not? That would be useless and pointless.

No?
I can appreciate and value that I have been given this life.
But if I didn't that wouldn't mean I would have to kill myself.
No need to be a jerk and blast my brain out infront of everyone, just because I don't value life.
You make it sound like one has to stay alive. Like choice isn't an option here.

Do you mind telling me the reason to value life.

 

[Iman]

No, what your doing and I finally caught on is your making things up as we go here and I don't appreciate that one bit. Why insult my intelligence over the discussion by doing so? Why underestimate me by doing this?

I was trying to make sense of what you were saying, since you never really answered any of my questions directly.

 

[Iman]

Why is it so accepted by society to let you ruin your health like that after turning into an "adult".
even though it doesn't seem very rational.

Why is the one irrational choice okay, but not the other. Just because you value the one thing

more than the other?

Why should I not value life? That would make no sense not to, wouldn't it?

I did mention health. To die with dignity is all about health. Every bit of it is.

And the next one

You basically said every option needs to be analyzed, checked and tested, if you want to kill yourself, to make sure it's the right decision.
Applying extreme reasonable and analytical thinking and procedure.
But why only regarding suicide.
Shouldn't the same be applied to everything in life?

I guess I assumed you already did since you are alive now. It should at least be one of your responsibilities already, that you are. At least I would think so. I would think it would be on your top 5 things of doing already. Your alive and breathing, why wouldn't you want to examine yourself and understand yourself more thoroughly for the better or for the worse? Just walk around not thinking about anything? That wouldn't be proactive at all. And in fact, it would be boring as hell.

Only the the last reply comes close to an being an answer

 

[Sickman75]

i better re-word this. you may start crying. Dont contact me or speak of me in the same sentence of any of your posts or i will tell an admin. i am done with you. its harassment if you do continue to do so.

 

[TAW122]

Not always, though if it is rational, it becomes a bit easier to accept and make sense. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to make the choice to decide whether or not his/her life is worth continuing and no one should intervene. However, with an irrational or impulsive decision, it is most likely not in the person's best interest and he/she should be discouraged from going through really quickly, especially without seriously considering all the consequences and solutions first.

 

[Iman]

Not always, though if it is rational, it becomes a bit easier to accept and make sense. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to make the choice to decide whether or not his/her life is worth continuing and no one should intervene. However, with an irrational or impulsive decision, it is most likely not in the person's best interest and he/she should be discouraged from going through really quickly, especially without seriously considering all the consequences and solutions first.

But now the question is.
What is in the persons best interest?
I would assume the thing that makes the person the happiest.
Depression can basically shift your whole perspective, so everything can just seem boring/bleak/pointless...
Normally you would now medicate/counsel the person until they feel better about everything again

So who gets to decide in this instance how he should feel about certain things,
if he currently feels like he wants nothing more than to die?
Please ignore this question, if it's stupid or doesn't make sense, because I don't want another fiasco like above.

 

[Sanguinius]

Why is it okay for example to quit your job, smoke cigarettes; basically make any decisions based on feelings/ on what you prefer? But it's not okay when it's about suicide.

It doesn't seem rational to create such an insane amount of variety. Would it not be best to just work towards affordable food and water supply, instead of creating more and more variation. Shouldn't we be content with just the necessities.

Saying it would get boring or something along those lines shouldn't be a consideration, because maybe you just have a depression and need to get pumped full of various medication to be able to appreciate it.

Maybe that person that gets bullied constantly just needs some meds too, because then he won't feel bad about getting treated like shit.

Maybe we all could be content, just watching paint dry in our spare time every single day, if we just had the right medication.

Why can't I kill myself, when I just feel like it. Why is there such a need to justify the decision to ctb.

Who get's to decide how you should feel about certain things.

Personally I feel like having to justify ctb only feeds into a negative mindset and deprives me to some extent further of happiness.

For example:
Oh, caught myself laughing.
Maybe I don't really want to die and I don't have enough justification to do so.
Let me find more reasons why the world is shit and it's not worth living.​

Could anyone give me some insight please, especially from the perspective of a pro-lifer.

I think suicide, or even other decisions can't be compared to others, because everyone is an individual and everyone feels pain other than another, and suicide is, as I think, mostly, if not in all the cases about pain, pain and the energy and will to endure it.
In example, many people say, if one ctb after a bad breakup with is boy/girlfriend. The pain will go away, they say.
But probably, the pain is so big, that it doesn't matters. Probably, the pain is so big, even if you'd know it will go away and you will be happy in 5 min you would choose not to wait, not to live. If you think, these 5 mins of suffering in unbearable pain are not worth a life full of happyness, its okay. Even if most people wouldn't understand. Even if even yourself won't understand it in the future.

So: no one except you has to understand why you want to ctb. Just be sure you are at peace with yourself. Remembember to be gentle with everyone, mistly with yourself...