Discussion Does it go against the forum to dissudae someone?

[gingerplum]

I don't think dissuading someone opposes the forum in any way. After all, one of the main tenets of SS is to minimize or prevent suffering. I have dissuaded a few members in the past and will continue to do so if I feel it's appropriate or warranted. If someone's user title is whee, suicide! Lolz it's a bit of a red flag for me.

Usually I'll post something to the effect of It sounds like you might not be ready for this, and typically PM them. There's nothing wrong with encouraging someone to take a step back and reevaluate; I don't want anyone to make a decision that they can never undo without some serious introspection. Sometimes just a little gentle guidance is in order.

As @Stan said, this forum has tremendous therapeutic value. So many people just want to have their voices heard and their pain acknowledged... sometimes, that's enough. I don't think you can overestimate the value of a supportive community of like-minded, empathetic people rallying to support you; connecting with a compassionate person who identifies with your feelings of hopelessness is invaluable.

I think that just the act of joining this forum shows a degree of maturity and impulse control... I mean, credit's due for not running to the nearest bridge or drinking Drain-O without any reflection or deliberation. That said, I think sometimes very young people may magnify their situation or see it as insurmountable because they live in a kind of microcosm and/or their life experience is limited.

Pain is pain, and desolation is desperate no matter what age you are. I get that. But a 20 yr-old might not realize that situational or crisis pain is transient. They also probably haven't had the chance to explore all of the available treatment options. I really believe that suicide should only be seriously considered after all other options are exhausted.

Obviously consideration is different in cases of incurable problems.

As for age, I won't give any direct advice on means and methods to anyone under age 25. That may seem like an arbitrary or unfair cutoff; I'm ok with that. What I'm not ok with is someone that is barely an adult making an everlasting decision that can never, ever be undone; not without meeting some pretty specific criteria, anyway. On a personal note, it's unbearably sad to me when someone that young has lost all hope.

This turned out to be way longer than I intended; I'll step off my soapbox now

 

[Time_To_Die]

Even thou I on a personal note have a extreme desire to ctb, for some reason it makes me sad to see younger folk, esp under 30 (and not in physical pain) want to Ctb
I want them to read this -https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/ : suggesting you may still not be in control of impulsive actions & not able to see things rationally- until well into your twenties. Is it strange to be on here, but have a desire to help/ stop others in their desire to ctb? Am I being naive? missing the point?

You seem like a very kind person; as a 26 year old who hasn't made any life-destroying choices, I suppose you would encourage me to stay the course, and I certainly appreciate the sentiment.

I think, though, that for me the reason I want to ctb is ultimately that I can't stand the level of anxiety I endure every day of my life. It's not that I want to ctb because I've ruined my life, I want to ctb because I have no reason to believe that my life could ever be enjoyable.

And that really gets at the crux of the issue: When you try to dissuade someone from suicide, you are implicitly assuming that you know that their situation could eventually improve. Often, we assume that other people have been driven to suicide for the same reasons that we have been driven to suicide. But that may not be the case. For example, even though a young person could "turn their life around", their emotional landscape could still be skewed to the point that life is unbearable.

 

[Eurus]

I'm still in the deciding stage being 29 and all I have an opportunity i just gotta take it

 

[k75]

Talking someone down isn't really the same as pushing your views on someone. Sometimes, people are clearly in crisis and not thinking clearly, are blinded by panic, and I think that's not a good time to be making life or death decisions. So I think it should be handled on a case by case basis. When I'm irrational, I appreciate it when people can point that out and steer me toward safety.

But as far as age... I think it's especially tragic when someone so young feels this way, because they generally haven't even gotten to live yet.

Real life doesn't start until you grow up and are out of school. From the time you're born until you become independent, someone else controls your life. Parents, guardians, teachers, various adults... You do what you're told and probably attend school and honestly are just busy going through puberty and growing up.

Life really starts after that, in my opinion. This is why I don't like to see younger people give up. It feels like they've experienced a lot, and they have, but they also haven't gotten a chance to see what it's like to be under their own control. See what life really is about. I think a lot of negative experiences can be salvaged.

I know there are exceptions and believe me, I know all about reasons that have no solution (half of mine are very permanent). But I don't believe nobody has a chance. And I think the younger you are, the more of a chance you have to successfully pick up the pieces.

 

[gingerplum]

[QUOTE="k75, post: 433070, member:

I think the younger you are, the more of a chance you have to successfully pick up the pieces.
[/QUOTE]

This is really a very sound point. After a certain age, there's a law of diminishing returns for sure.

 

[toomuchgrief]

Well OP MeltingHeart, maybe you can help me persuade me out of my suicidal thoughts ok. Look, I'm in my mid-30s, so still young I guess. Female. Not in any physical pain or terminal illness. But I explain to you why I want to die.

I was raised by a single mom, my mom died young. After my mom die, my grandma raised me, well, she dead too. I have ZERO blood family left.
So I have zero guilt of leaving any family members behind because I have NO family left. Look, my blood immediately members they dead already.

My only reason for survival was my toddler. My son die in Jan 2019, so 10 months ago. He was a toddler age when he died. The baby I carry in my belly, gave birth and raise him, DIE. I'm a mother (who hair not grey yet) but have to burried my own son.

Yada, a mother who burried her own baby get depression, grief, yada, normal I was told.
I tried to live, I tried 10 months already (so you can't say I'm impulsive here). I thought time will help me lessen the grieft, but NOPE. It went the opposite way, my grief get stronger and stronger everyday, and now I'm at the point I just want to end my life so I can be with my toddler on the other side. I know he will wait for his mum.

So please tell me, what are my reason to continue living?

Yeah, people said it selfish for you to die, but not my case. I give zero fuck, and I'm not selfish. Who else do I have left in this world to considered me a selfish person?

My way to go, I plan to jump of a 1,000 feet bridge. High enough for it going to take a while to find my body under those rocks mountains, I give no fuck if the coyote or those birds eat my dead corpse or whatever. No one will remember me or will my death effect anyone, because I have NO ONE left.

There, do I have the rights to end my own life now OP? And no where in my situation is considered impulsive. When you have this many LOSSES in your life, it natural for you to want to go with them. Will be soon, and I know my baby will wait for me on the other side, we will be reunited. I know he will come in spirit when I jump and welcome his mom come.

How about before you call me impulsive or selfish, wait till you have that MANY LOSSES in your life, then you WILL know how I feel.
Yeah, no. I don't need fucking therapy. Let wait till your own baby die first, then see if therapy is the top thing on your mind.

 

[puppy9]

Without this site I'll be dead. I know it's oxymoronic. But I can find solace, with the fact that I'll be able to ctb peacefully and painlessly. I love the community here, some are ephemeral but it's way better irl. Thanks guys .

 

[Heart of Ice]

I have similar musings. Depression alters brain chemistry, right? I have no experience on depression, but I wonder about the "rationality" of some people's actions here. Although, if they have the strength to make an account here and post, I guess that means they aren't that "impulsive". I don't know, really.

On an unrelated note, seeing people's stories on here has made me realize that my reasons are fairly petty in comparison to the years of pain and abuse some people have experienced here. My reasons feel substantial for me, but I guess it's nice to know that it could be worse. Hell, in the next life, we could be all starving children in Africa or something.

EDIT: I'm fairly young.

 

[Blackjack]

Well OP MeltingHeart, maybe you can help me persuade me out of my suicidal thoughts ok. Look, I'm in my mid-30s, so still young I guess. Female. Not in any physical pain or terminal illness. But I explain to you why I want to die.

I was raised by a single mom, my mom died young. After my mom die, my grandma raised me, well, she dead too. I have ZERO blood family left.
So I have zero guilt of leaving any family members behind because I have NO family left. Look, my blood immediately members they dead already.

My only reason for survival was my toddler. My son die in Jan 2019, so 10 months ago. He was a toddler age when he died. The baby I carry in my belly, gave birth and raise him, DIE. I'm a mother (who hair not grey yet) but have to burried my own son.

Yada, a mother who burried her own baby get depression, grief, yada, normal I was told.
I tried to live, I tried 10 months already (so you can't say I'm impulsive here). I thought time will help me lessen the grieft, but NOPE. It went the opposite way, my grief get stronger and stronger everyday, and now I'm at the point I just want to end my life so I can be with my toddler on the other side. I know he will wait for his mum.

So please tell me, what are my reason to continue living?

Yeah, people said it selfish for you to die, but not my case. I give zero fuck, and I'm not selfish. Who else do I have left in this world to considered me a selfish person?

My way to go, I plan to jump of a 1,000 feet bridge. High enough for it going to take a while to find my body under those rocks mountains, I give no fuck if the coyote or those birds eat my dead corpse or whatever. No one will remember me or will my death effect anyone, because I have NO ONE left.

There, do I have the rights to end my own life now OP? And no where in my situation is considered impulsive. When you have this many LOSSES in your life, it natural for you to want to go with them. Will be soon, and I know my baby will wait for me on the other side, we will be reunited. I know he will come in spirit when I jump and welcome his mom come.

How about before you call me impulsive or selfish, wait till you have that MANY LOSSES in your life, then you WILL know how I feel.
Yeah, no. I don't need fucking therapy. Let wait till your own baby die first, then see if therapy is the top thing on your mind.

Nobody called you impulsive or selfish, and you have every right to feel the way you do, and make whatever choice you have to make given your incomprehensible loss. I'm not sure I would have made it 10 months after losing my child. I think I can speak on behalf of a lot of us here, we support you.

 

[woxihuanni]

There is a difference between calming somebody in a crisis and extending support, and talking down at them and presuming to know better than them. Fucktards who hand out 'just take a walk' and 'my pain is greater than yours, yours don't matter' do not matter in the end and should be ignored. The problem is that before somebody who is already in a crisis can hit the ignore button, those worms have already done some harm.

In my case, nothing anybody says can sway the decision, it is a change in circumstances that could. But people dying because of emotional pain can be swayed to an earlier death to see that even here they are belittled. So pro-lifers of varying degrees (especially the 'only my pain is valid' camp), you might be pushing people over the edge. Shut your pie holes and disappear.

That being said, it takes a level of maturity to handle such decisions. You come here and ask how to kill yourself, I'm not telling you. There are also situations I don't even know how to extend support because the person is incoherent/inaccessible.

 

[BPD_LE]

I think one of the most important things to be offered here is acknowledgement of the persons suffering and acceptance of the decisions they make. Isn't that what's lacking in the general population? Just being heard and accepted is enough for some. No comparison, no judgement, just acceptance.

 

[Elias]

As a member of the quarter century old club, I'll give you my take on this. In my personal experience, life in this current world feels like a sick game and I'm clearly losing, raking up more trauma and sleepless nights than positive memories. I do not feel like there's a higher purpose to existence other than survival being hard-coded in our DNA. I'm an ex-muslim, and this religion fucked me up, basically making me shift my personal paradigm at a young age, making me believe what I consider now as no more than fairy tales. So far, life has showed me its vile and abject side, killing my innocence right away and replacing it with a traumatized version of myself, separating my own psyche from that of normal folks, and making me a bitter, resentful, paranoid, depressed mess. And for nothing. I did not learn anything during any of this, except unhealthy mechanisms that comforted me in my darkest hours. This is why I want out at 25 y.o, I want to get off this wild ride and let other people have their twisted fun while I get my deserved peace. I've lived traumatic shit and that's enough for a lifetime, I'm all set thank you very much. If you were at the cinema and the movie sucked balls, you could probably imagine it gets better later on and stay through the bullshit for an epic plot twist; well I don't have that same faith with life and I'm deciding to quit the theater early with mah popcorn.

 

[woxihuanni]

As a member of the quarter century old club, I'll give you my take on this. In my personal experience, life in this current world feels like a sick game and I'm clearly losing, raking up more trauma and sleepless nights than positive memories. I do not feel like there's a higher purpose to existence other than survival being hard-coded in our DNA. I'm an ex-muslim, and this religion fucked me up, basically making me shift my personal paradigm at a young age, making me believe what I consider now as no more than fairy tales. So far, life has showed me its vile and abject side, killing my innocence right away and replacing it with a traumatized version of myself, separating my own psyche from that of normal folks, and making me a bitter, resentful, paranoid, depressed mess. And for nothing. I did not learn anything during any of this, except unhealthy mechanisms that comforted me in my darkest hours. This is why I want out at 25 y.o, I want to get off this wild ride and let other people have their twisted fun while I get my deserved peace. I've lived traumatic shit and that's enough for a lifetime, I'm all set thank you very much. If you were at the cinema and the movie sucked balls, you could probably imagine it gets better later on and stay through the bullshit for an epic plot twist; well I don't have that same faith with life and I'm deciding to quit the theater early with mah popcorn.

Fuck, I'm so sorry you dealt with such fuckery. Always respect ex-muslims for coming out of that.

 

[trigzter]

Tbh i am 29 and hope scares the shit out of me. I have felt this way for a third of my life. I. Have come to accept it...in fact im counting on the hopelessness as it gets me through the day. I agree non adultts should look for other options as at 18 i was an idiot. . Things can get better

 

[MeltingHeart]

You seem like a very kind person; as a 26 year old who hasn't made any life-destroying choices, I suppose you would encourage me to stay the course, and I certainly appreciate the sentiment.

I think, though, that for me the reason I want to ctb is ultimately that I can't stand the level of anxiety I endure every day of my life. It's not that I want to ctb because I've ruined my life, I want to ctb because I have no reason to believe that my life could ever be enjoyable.

And that really gets at the crux of the issue: When you try to dissuade someone from suicide, you are implicitly assuming that you know that their situation could eventually improve. Often, we assume that other people have been driven to suicide for the same reasons that we have been driven to suicide. But that may not be the case. For example, even though a young person could "turn their life around", their emotional landscape could still be skewed to the point that life is unbearable.

hks for saying so-sometimes been too kind-and not treated too well because of it but anyways, you sound very articulate-I like this idea of an 'emotional landscape', have you had/ tried many treatments/ meds/ therapies (alternative or standard) for your anxiety? Do you know what causes it?

I don't think dissuading someone opposes the forum in any way. After all, one of the main tenets of SS is to minimize or prevent suffering. I have dissuaded a few members in the past and will continue to do so if I feel it's appropriate or warranted. If someone's user title is whee, suicide! Lolz it's a bit of a red flag for me.

Usually I'll post something to the effect of It sounds like you might not be ready for this, and typically PM them. There's nothing wrong with encouraging someone to take a step back and reevaluate; I don't want anyone to make a decision that they can never undo without some serious introspection. Sometimes just a little gentle guidance is in order.

As @Stan said, this forum has tremendous therapeutic value. So many people just want to have their voices heard and their pain acknowledged... sometimes, that's enough. I don't think you can overestimate the value of a supportive community of like-minded, empathetic people rallying to support you; connecting with a compassionate person who identifies with your feelings of hopelessness is invaluable.

I think that just the act of joining this forum shows a degree of maturity and impulse control... I mean, credit's due for not running to the nearest bridge or drinking Drain-O without any reflection or deliberation. That said, I think sometimes very young people may magnify their situation or see it as insurmountable because they live in a kind of microcosm and/or their life experience is limited.

Pain is pain, and desolation is desperate no matter what age you are. I get that. But a 20 yr-old might not realize that situational or crisis pain is transient. They also probably haven't had the chance to explore all of the available treatment options. I really believe that suicide should only be seriously considered after all other options are exhausted.

Obviously consideration is different in cases of incurable problems.

As for age, I won't give any direct advice on means and methods to anyone under age 25. That may seem like an arbitrary or unfair cutoff; I'm ok with that. What I'm not ok with is someone that is barely an adult making an everlasting decision that can never, ever be undone; not without meeting some pretty specific criteria, anyway. On a personal note, it's unbearably sad to me when someone that young has lost all hope.

This turned out to be way longer than I intended; I'll step off my soapbox now

nice piece of writing

I have similar musings. Depression alters brain chemistry, right? I have no experience on depression, but I wonder about the "rationality" of some people's actions here. Although, if they have the strength to make an account here and post, I guess that means they aren't that "impulsive". I don't know, really.

On an unrelated note, seeing people's stories on here has made me realize that my reasons are fairly petty in comparison to the years of pain and abuse some people have experienced here. My reasons feel substantial for me, but I guess it's nice to know that it could be worse. Hell, in the next life, we could be all starving children in Africa or something.

EDIT: I'm fairly young.

not all depression is brain chemicals-definitely some though

 

[Jean Améry]

I would say telling them to stop doing what they're doing or telling them they have no right would be contrary to the rules. As would incessantly calling into question their decision especially when it's clearly not welcome.

As to trying to make them see possible other options: if you don't get preachy about it I don't see the problem.

Of course I'm not a mod so I'm not the one who has to interpret and enforce the rules. I'll defer to that higher authority, lol.

As to it being sad when young people kill themselves: I get the sentiment and I don't see why expressing that sentiment would necessarily entail judgement.

I would caution against generalizations. Every situation is different and personally I make it a point not to question someone's motives since I have no direct access to their experiences, thoughts and emotions.

There are many who think that it's never rational and acceptable to CTB at whatever age. Surely you don't agree with that?

 

[GeorgeJL]

Even thou I on a personal note have a extreme desire to ctb, for some reason it makes me sad to see younger folk, esp under 30 (and not in physical pain) want to Ctb
I want them to read this -https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/ : suggesting you may still not be in control of impulsive actions & not able to see things rationally- until well into your twenties. Is it strange to be on here, but have a desire to help/ stop others in their desire to ctb? Am I being naive? missing the point?

You can always ask their age.

The problem comes when your pushing the too much to not CTB.