Venting Does anyone else sometimes wish their psychologist/therapist is suicidal?

[asleepordead?]

Don't get me wrong, I love my psychologist, she's great, but no matter how many sessions I have and how many times I go over it, she, and all other mental health professionals I've dealt with, are missing some fundamental understanding on why myself and others actually want to CTB. Maybe it would be easier for them to understand if they were suicidal, even for just a day. It gets so frustrating sometimes telling them that I'm NOT getting better and I DONT want to live.

 

[PoorYorick]

So psychologists suck, because they are not suicidal. But fortunately here you are among suicidal people that make a good company :) Wish you the best!

 

[dinosavr]

The worst thing is that many psychologists actually were suicidal in the past but recovery worked on them. And just because it worked for them they believe it will work for anybody. It's quite naive imo and completely unnecessary. I don't understand why they constantly try to force recovery on suicidal people instead of just trying to give them what they actually want and trying to understand them.

 

[LoiteringClouds]

Don't get me wrong, I love my psychologist, she's great, but no matter how many sessions I have and how many times I go over it, she, and all other mental health professionals I've dealt with, are missing some fundamental understanding on why myself and others actually want to CTB. Maybe it would be easier for them to understand if they were suicidal, even for just a day. It gets so frustrating sometimes telling them that I'm NOT getting better and I DONT want to live.

I might be the luckiest person on this planet - because my current therapist is a pro-choicer, at least in front of me.
She acknowledges my desire to die and even though I didn't asked her directly, she seems to understand what it's like to be suicidal.
And she said she has a copy of highly controversial book "A Complete Manual to Suicide" ("完全自殺マニュアル" in Japanese. I live in Japan) as her last resort. Though I have never read this book, it describes various methods to CTB, according to her.

But I thought this scenario: if my therapist were suicidal and heard about highly lethal methods like SN, she could CTB with the method I talk about. So I'm afraid to talk about methods.

she, and all other mental health professionals I've dealt with, are missing some fundamental understanding on why myself and others actually want to CTB.

I'm so sorry to hear that - I think every psychologist should try to understand what is happening in clients' head. It's a part of their job.

The worst thing is that many psychologists actually were suicidal in the past but recovery worked on them. And just because it worked for them they believe it will work for anybody. It's quite naive imo and completely unnecessary. I don't understand why they constantly try to force recovery on suicidal people instead of just trying to give them what they actually want and trying to understand them.

I've saw this tendency in some psychologists and laypeople. They think they "overcame" their challenge so they have the right to preach and if it doesn't get better it's the patients' fault. I'm tired of hearing "Try harder" or "You're adult - it's your responsibility to get better" - I simply don't need them. I'll recover without your "help" period. Otherwise I just CTB.

Note: I have never mentioned about this forum in a session. Anybody can turn pro-lifer anytime I think.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

It's understandable to have that desire. There is no substitute for lived experience and I truly believe that lacking that common ground does limit just how effective a clinician can by. But there are dangers that lurk when a clinician is also a peer. They can get tunnel vision on what recovery looks like if they are unable to separate their MH situation from the patient's. They can get emboldened to be tough love assholes because they "made it". They can feel specially equipped to dispensed stuff that may not be appropriate.

I say this based on dealing with both kinds of therapists.

 

[Croww]

Don't get me wrong, I love my psychologist, she's great, but no matter how many sessions I have and how many times I go over it, she, and all other mental health professionals I've dealt with, are missing some fundamental understanding on why myself and others actually want to CTB. Maybe it would be easier for them to understand if they were suicidal, even for just a day. It gets so frustrating sometimes telling them that I'm NOT getting better and I DONT want to live.

A lot of therapists, psychologists and psychiatrist end up CTB'ing because of their jobs. It's a high stress because you have to deal and solve peoples problems.

 

[Celerity]

This is one of many reasons why I favor group therapy. It also has its downsides, but being able to speak candidly is very important. It helps me, and I think it helps most other people, to see with their own eyes and hear with their own ears that they're not alone. Many therapists have been right where we are - that's often why they got into the field - but they are obligated to maintain some professional distance. Rare is the person who can tell all about their struggles and still serve a helpful guide.

 

[SecretDissociation]

I wish so too. I wish they had a deeper understanding of why we want to die. Of how sometimes the pain of living is unbearable or that sometimes death is just the one thing we want. My psychiatrist says some dumb thing sometimes that makes me more suicidal, almost pushing me because he simply doesn't understand how suicidality works. And my therapist thinks it is because of the thoughts pushing me to suicide. But I just want to die. The thoughts exist, but I am not fueled by them.

But also, they may not be able to share and have to have an objective unfueled standpoint to remain professional. I as a tutor can't tell my kids that I have been struggling in order to motivate them and also sometimes it is difficult to communicate what has helped yourself to others.

 

[Kit1]

I do have some sympathy for psychologists and people in similar caring professions. However I do empathise with you, asleepordead. I have a clinical psychologist and psychiatrist who seem to be okay/good, but struggle with my suicide ideation. However a few weeks ago, my clinical psychologist mentioned that she 'would like to continue working with me for the sake of my children ' or something to the affect and I knownthat she is genuinely concerned about me - that statement felt like she was validating my feelings, but was also aware that I need to be here fornjy children wheelchair is why I am here. I didn't ask her to explain as I didn't want to place her in a difficult role.

Now I also work in a role where safeguarding g comes up from time to time and am also a mental health first aider at my workplace. Whilst I might be able to empathise with someone who opens up to about their suicidal feelings or ideation, I will not be able to encourage the act and will have to take any statement mentioned about intent to end one's life seriously - in a professional capacity. Also I am not allowed to talk about my challenges to my clients..,

 

[Praestat_Mori]

What could the the therapist actually do to make u not feel suicidal anymore? I mean in regards of changing the circumstances that make u suicidal. People who neither have severe health issues nor other serious problems are usually not suicidal and can never understand how someone can have the desire to actually die. Unfortunately there isn't fix (=recovery) for everyone.

 

[Thia]

I might be the luckiest person on this planet - because my current therapist is a pro-choicer, at least in front of me.
She acknowledges my desire to die and even though I didn't asked her directly, she seems to understand what it's like to be suicidal.
And she said she has a copy of highly controversial book "A Complete Manual to Suicide" ("完全自殺マニュアル" in Japanese. I live in Japan) as her last resort. Though I have never read this book, it describes various methods to CTB, according to her.

But I thought this scenario: if my therapist were suicidal and heard about highly lethal methods like SN, she could CTB with the method I talk about. So I'm afraid to talk about methods.


I'm so sorry to hear that - I think every psychologist should try to understand what is happening in clients' head. It's a part of their job.


I've saw this tendency in some psychologists and laypeople. They think they "overcame" their challenge so they have the right to preach and if it doesn't get better it's the patients' fault. I'm tired of hearing "Try harder" or "You're adult - it's your responsibility to get better" - I simply don't need them. I'll recover without your "help" period. Otherwise I just CTB.

Note: I have never mentioned about this forum in a session. Anybody can turn pro-lifer anytime I think.

May I ask how you found your therapist? Was it purely by chance?
I live in Japan as well, but the therapist provided by my university does not understand me and I can't bring myself to continue my sessions anymore.

 

[UKscotty]

I think people in recovery themselves do make good ones.

It is difficult to understand how hard it is to recover from being suicidal unless you have been there yourself.

Sort of like how alcoholics and other addicts have a higher chance of recovery around each other.

 

[LoiteringClouds]

May I ask how you found your therapist? Was it purely by chance?
I live in Japan as well, but the therapist provided by my university does not understand me and I can't bring myself to continue my sessions anymore.

It was pure chance - the hospital I visit assigned her to me.
I'm sorry to hear your therapist doesn't understand you. Are they judgmental? I've seen some therapists in Japan use "tough love" or scare tactics against clients, especially young people.
I think it's a huge red flag.

 

[Thia]

It was pure chance - the hospital I visit assigned her to me.
I'm sorry to hear your therapist doesn't understand you. Are they judgmental? I've seen some therapists in Japan use "tough love" or scare tactics against clients, especially young people.
I think it's a huge red flag.

I see. I am happy that it worked out for you.

It wasn't tough love. Our sessions just didn't work out for me. I didn't like her asking about how I tried to kill myself because it brought back memories that I didn't want to remember. And ironically the sessions made me recognize just how hopeless my situation is. There was nothing useful to be gained from the sessions and I said I would rather not go again, yet she tried to force me to see her again because "she was worried" about my suicidality. I made an empty promise and didn't return.

 

[NightingaleOde]

Hi all. I'm a psychologist. Age 60. I've been in practice for 30 years, most of that time working with war trauma. I can tell you that the field of.mental health lives in absolute terror of the idea of.suicide. How many times.have I been forced to serve on "Mortality and Morbidity" committees to do a psychological postmortem in a (usually futile) attempt.to discover "lessons learned" about how some therapist or.treatment plan failed? 99 percent of the time no one failed, the depression was just too strong. It's like blaming oncologists for the deaths of cancer patients.

Idk if the cumulative weight of 30 years of trauma work caught up.to me. i think I'm genetically vulnerable.My uncle.killed himself. My boss, also a therapist, killed himself 6 years ago and because I was the most experienced trauma therapist on staff, I had the "honor" of meeting with his wife and kids. It fucking sucked, as you might imagine.

Yes , therapists.can be dogmatic about suicide. But many are that way because of the fear they live under. Losing a patient to suicide brings a ton of guilt.

Why am I not that way? I've been lucky enough never to lose a patient under my care. But I'm no wizard. I think I'm just fortunate. Its because for whatever reason, including my own pain, ,.I know that sometimes a person simply can't take it anymore. I'd never judge anyone for that. But at the same time, I hope that for at least some people here, the honest, respectful, compassionate connection here at this site -- much like in good therapy --- eases the pain enough that such a drastic solution to suffering doesn't have to be implemented.

❤ to all.
Doc Ode

 

[lachrymost]

Hi all. I'm a psychologist. Age 60. I've been in practice for 30 years, most of that time working with war trauma. I can tell you that the field of.mental health lives in absolute terror of the idea of.suicide. How many times.have I been forced to serve on "Mortality and Morbidity" committees to do a psychological postmortem in a (usually futile) attempt.to discover "lessons learned" about how some therapist or.treatment plan failed? 99 percent of the time no one failed, the depression was just too strong. It's like blaming oncologists for the deaths of cancer patients.

Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective as a psychologist. I'm really interested in the psychological postmortems. Are you investigating the healthcare of people who died by suicide? I know you said that 99% of the time no one's at fault, which makes sense, but does anyone ever get in trouble over it? I can't help but be curious.

 

[NightingaleOde]

In my experience, there seems to be a punitive stance on the part of the involved healthcare system toward the line clinicians (hands-on treaters). A kind of scapegoating -- i.e., if the individual doctor or therapist can be faulted, the system is implicitly exonerated. I've mainly seen this in the cases of combat veterans who have killed themselves. I've never seen anyone lose their job over it but I stopped being asked to serve on such committees after I tried to come to.the defense of a.poor terrified clinician who was being mercilessly grilled by some of my fellow committee members. It was.outrageous. This patient would have killed himself even with a team of doctors and nurses in the room all holding restraints and syringes of thorazine.

 

[LoiteringClouds]

It wasn't tough love. Our sessions just didn't work out for me. I didn't like her asking about how I tried to kill myself because it brought back memories that I didn't want to remember. And ironically the sessions made me recognize just how hopeless my situation is.

I'm so sorry, the sessions seem to have done more harm than good. And even though I don't think she was an experienced therapist, no therapist might be able to help you, because you recognized how hopeless your situation is.
Do you want to see another therapist, or have you given up recovery?

There was nothing useful to be gained from the sessions and I said I would rather not go again, yet she tried to force me to see her again because "she was worried" about my suicidality. I made an empty promise and didn't return.

It sounds like she was worried she would be responsible for your suicide if you CTB'ed. I'm no therapist but I'd say "Do you have anybody to talk about what you want to? I'm afraid you're isolated and suffering alone."

I hope your days will be a bit less unbearable, even though it might not be possible. I think you know what's the best for you.

 

[Hotsackage]

There are some things you cannot get over, they don't seem to understand that and expect to just live with it and pursue life.

 

[Thia]

I'm so sorry, the sessions seem to have done more harm than good. And even though I don't think she was an experienced therapist, no therapist might be able to help you, because you recognized how hopeless your situation is.
Do you want to see another therapist, or have you given up recovery?


It sounds like she was worried she would be responsible for your suicide if you CTB'ed. I'm no therapist but I'd say "Do you have anybody to talk about what you want to? I'm afraid you're isolated and suffering alone."

I hope your days will be a bit less unbearable, even though it might not be possible. I think you know what's the best for you.

I would have given a very different answer if I had replied only a few days ago. I really don't know what happened, but somehow after having undergone a mental breakdown one or two days ago I no longer feel depressed or suicidal at the moment.

I don't know how long this will last, but thank you.

 

[Neverfeltdeader]

It would be awesome to find a therapist that can relate and has had a personal experience dealing with suicidal ideation. Even if they do, they will unfortunately never tell you. I just wish I knew one person in rl (aside from my family) that was just as suicidal as I am. Just one.

 

[asleepordead?]

What could the the therapist actually do to make u not feel suicidal anymore? I mean in regards of changing the circumstances that make u suicidal. People who neither have severe health issues nor other serious problems are usually not suicidal and can never understand how someone can have the desire to actually die. Unfortunately there isn't fix (=recovery) for everyone.

Well to be honest, I have no idea what they could do to make me not suicidal anymore, but I figured, hey if after a year of this I still feel the same then no harm no foul and I can CTB without feeling like I hadn't at least tried a little. I'm fortunate enough to not have any chronic or otherwise serious health conditions apart from BPD and fairly severe PDD, so apart from mental anguish I have the fortunate ability to stay alive without too much pain to at least try things like this. I've always been extremely pessimistic and stubborn so maybe it is a forgone conclusion that I will not change and end up killing myself anyway.

Hi all. I'm a psychologist. Age 60. I've been in practice for 30 years, most of that time working with war trauma. I can tell you that the field of.mental health lives in absolute terror of the idea of.suicide. How many times.have I been forced to serve on "Mortality and Morbidity" committees to do a psychological postmortem in a (usually futile) attempt.to discover "lessons learned" about how some therapist or.treatment plan failed? 99 percent of the time no one failed, the depression was just too strong. It's like blaming oncologists for the deaths of cancer patients.

Idk if the cumulative weight of 30 years of trauma work caught up.to me. i think I'm genetically vulnerable.My uncle.killed himself. My boss, also a therapist, killed himself 6 years ago and because I was the most experienced trauma therapist on staff, I had the "honor" of meeting with his wife and kids. It fucking sucked, as you might imagine.

Yes , therapists.can be dogmatic about suicide. But many are that way because of the fear they live under. Losing a patient to suicide brings a ton of guilt.

Why am I not that way? I've been lucky enough never to lose a patient under my care. But I'm no wizard. I think I'm just fortunate. Its because for whatever reason, including my own pain, ,.I know that sometimes a person simply can't take it anymore. I'd never judge anyone for that. But at the same time, I hope that for at least some people here, the honest, respectful, compassionate connection here at this site -- much like in good therapy --- eases the pain enough that such a drastic solution to suffering doesn't have to be implemented.

❤ to all.
Doc Ode

Thanks for your brilliant perspective that you have brought from your time as a psychologist, I really appreciate seeing this from another perspective.

My best friends mother is also a psychologist, mostly dealing with concussion and TBI patients with mental health issues from that, and recently her daughter, my friends sister, whom I've known for many years committed suicide, and I cant start to imagine what that would make a person feel, especially when they are meant to be experts in seeing this kind of thing. Dealing with things like this, albeit much less close to home, for an entire career must be terrible and I can see exactly how it would have an extremely negative impact on any psychologists mental health.

I really like my psychologist and do plan on leaving her some type of note if/when I do ever go through with my plan, however I cant help but feel the most guilty for her out of all of my friends and family, as I cant imagine her feeling anything but at least partially responsible for this. I just hope she can see it as good that I will finally not be in pain anymore, rather than sad for the life I could have had.