Discussion Do you think there should be SOME restrictions on suicide?

[Shadowplay]

Do you think anyone should be able to CTB any time they want, or do you think there should be some restrictions? I'm wondering if maybe people should have to wait and decide if that is what they really want. Or if there should be some kind of age minimum. Genuinely not sure myself. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[trianglesplayhouse]

Everyone has incredibly different life circumstances so restricting it would be inconsiderate.

Of course waiting should be a given and it shouldn't happen on an impluse.

Honestly if we just educated people on how suicide works and made it less taboo, I think less people would actually CTB.

Or if we want to go to a fantasy world, make mental health resources more avaliable and better trained staff.

 

[dreadpirateroberts69]

I think there are two distinct groups of people that should hold off on killing themselves in most, if not all cases, and that's minors and parents of minors. But every single person has the right, it's body autonomy plain and simple.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

18+ and a short waiting period.

 

[yive]

everyone should be able to ctb any time they want, without exceptions. we didn't ask to be born, life is not an obligation

 

[FromGermany]

With respect to minors. For terminally ill persons, who already suffering under pain, which can not be controlled by palliative medication, no age minimum.

Our Federal Constitutional Court has ruled last year, that every German has the right to CTB for whatever reason and at any time. This is also my opinion for adults.

But if they will catch you here, still against your will into the psych ward, and the Court says, there is no right for N.

The only ones, who benefit from that judgement, are the Swiss 10.000 fee euthanasia groups, because they are no longer prohibited here.

Ordinary small people have no benefit from it.

 

[supermario]

If you were talking about assisted suicide, I can see there being a debate on when and under what circumstances. But when it comes to ctb, ultimately it is our life, and noone has the right to say when another person has the right to go.

 

[ClownMe]

In my opinion, as long as you're over 18, you should be allowed to have access to a painless death whenever you choose. Probably controversial, but I might go even younger on the age restriction, maybe 13 and over, that's around the time when you really see what the world is all about, I first wanted to kill myself around 14/15 and I regret that I didn't.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

I think all people should have some ability (within reason) to obtain peaceful methods and information for themselves. I don't think it's a great idea to hand out N/SN to children or people that are in a heavily compromised state of mind (depending on the specific case). But to rather simply not ban or restrict what's needed for someone to make their own decision about this. It would already be difficult for a child or an otherwise impaired decision maker to go about killing themselves from the get-go (exceptions: guns, unique persons), so some speed bumps are already naturally in place (albeit often in a way that hinder rational adults at the moment).

People are already struggling to chug their N/SN here on the forum, sometimes even without having to weigh their suffering against that of bereaved loved ones. SI, family and practical matters of suicide are natural speed bumps that make it hard for most people to fuck around and die without really meaning to do it (again, outliers exist).

For adults with the ability to make decisions for themselves in other contexts (alcohol, smoking, joining the military, etc), suicide should simply be added to the list of available options (i.e, legalize method acquisition and distribution). How this actually manifests will differ depending on how society looks overall in a certain area.

In cases where death makes sense for the individual, even if they are under the age of 18 or not in a rational state of mind, I can see how assistance might be needed. If someone is completely paralyzed, unable to communicate and in constant pain, I don't see how mercy killing is off the table (for an example). A less extreme case where someone is bedridden it then makes sense to meet them half way by giving them the option of a peaceful death, if they want it. Again, how or even if this sort of thing is possible would depend on the society in question.

There will of course be some difficult cases where it's hard to determine what's what, and I tend to err on the side of death when it comes to those.

 

[Futile]

18+ years olds should be able to ctb at will no matter what, for minors there should be a bit more of checking but they should still have the opportunity

 

[Rational man]

Do you think anyone should be able to CTB any time they want, or do you think there should be some restrictions? I'm wondering if maybe people should have to wait and decide if that is what they really want. Or if there should be some kind of age minimum. Genuinely not sure myself. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

I presume you mean legally ctb, because anyone could potentially and voluntarily exit life at any given moment. Assisted dying is expensive and inherently bureaucratic.

 

[Pluto]

Like most political issues, both extremes of the spectrum are completely insane, so what is needed is high quality debate to establish a sensible medium.

Giving N to an 8 year old who is upset about failing a math test is insane.
NOT offering N to a terminally ill patient who otherwise has to endure weeks of agony is insane.

At least in Australia, we are in the early stages of accepting euthanasia for terminally ill patients who meet strict criteria over a period of time. It's a heck of a lot better than nothing at all, but we are still dominated by the insanity of the fundamentalist Christian perspective on this issue.

The age thing of 16+ or 18+ is a basic one because younger people are not considered independent decision-makers and are too easily influenced. That's why they can't vote, consent to sex, etc. Any exceptions would need careful consideration. Though safe housing for those who are homeless would address most issues of family violence, etc. that would make them want to CTB in this age bracket.

It is reasonable to say that a 6 or 12 month waiting period be required, and multiple 'are you sures' from doctors.

Another factor that is often overlooked is when people are motivated to persuade family members to die so that they can financially gain an inheritance. It risks being state-sanctioned murder and should be taken into account.

Pretty much everyone here would meet this sort of criteria so there is no need to take it any further. This is what I think is sensible and reasonable.

 

[FuneralCry]

I think forcing people to live is cruel. We have the right to exit this world at a time of our choosing, it is our life, our decision and we do not need to justify our reasons for leaving. It is a personal decision when to exit and nobody else has any say in it.

 

[that_guy2611]

I would say a minimum waiting period and during that period a session or two with a therapist to confirm you're aware of your intent and actions and it's not something you are doing on a whim.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

I think there are two distinct groups of people that should hold off on killing themselves in most, if not all cases, and that's minors and parents of minors. But every single person has the right, it's body autonomy plain and simple.

100%

 

[orange]

I think there are two distinct groups of people that should hold off on killing themselves in most, if not all cases, and that's minors and parents of minors. But every single person has the right, it's body autonomy plain and simple.

I hadn't thought about the parent thing before. Bit unkind to drag someone into this world kicking and screaming and then peace out, innit?

 

[blueclover_.]

With respect to minors. For terminally ill persons, who already suffering under pain, which can not be controlled by palliative medication, no age minimum.

Our Federal Constitutional Court has ruled last year, that every German has the right to CTB for whatever reason and at any time. This is also my opinion for adults.

But if they will catch you here, still against your will into the psych ward, and the Court says, there is no right for N.

The only ones, who benefit from that judgement, are the Swiss 10.000 fee euthanasia groups, because they are no longer prohibited here.

Ordinary small people have no benefit from it.

I can only imagine to live in a country that supports RTD.

 

[Shadowplay]

Thanks for the interesting and thoughtful responses; I'll go through them later. xoxo

 

[PeacefulTonic]

Terminally ill should be able to ctb at any age.
Everyone else should be 18+, with consent from at least two doctors, and at minimum a month of time just to be sure

Can arguably put a restriction on parents of minors, but this one can be a whole different discussion entirely

 

[Crimsonghost3]

Considering I first tried at 15 or 16 I'd want to say then but any time I hear people under 18 doing it it kills me inside. I don't think the world will get better and I don't think the help will ever come so I'd be willing to say if by 15 you want to I think there needs to be a safe way for information to be relayed and help offered. At least in the us we allow 16 to be good enough to drive which adds a huge risk to their lives at 18 they are allowed to get a gun or enlist putting themselves in a much closer position of death. So why allow them to drive or go fight in a war but not ctb?

 

[Someone123]

Do you think anyone should be able to CTB any time they want, or do you think there should be some restrictions? I'm wondering if maybe people should have to wait and decide if that is what they really want. Or if there should be some kind of age minimum. Genuinely not sure myself. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

If it became easier to commit suicide then there would be more cases where murders are disguised as suicides, so that's a key issue. Of course it probably won't get easier so it's really just a theoretical thing.

 

[Shadowplay]

Everyone has incredibly different life circumstances so restricting it would be inconsiderate.

Of course waiting should be a given and it shouldn't happen on an impluse.

Honestly if we just educated people on how suicide works and made it less taboo, I think less people would actually CTB.

Or if we want to go to a fantasy world, make mental health resources more avaliable and better trained staff.

Am I missing something or are they contradiction to each other?

I think there are two distinct groups of people that should hold off on killing themselves in most, if not all cases, and that's minors and parents of minors. But every single person has the right, it's body autonomy plain and simple.

Yeah I was going to put that in my original post - are parents obligated not to CTB while their kids are young.

18+ and a short waiting period.

What kinda waiting period roughly? 6 months?

Our Federal Constitutional Court has ruled last year, that every German has the right to CTB for whatever reason and at any time. This is also my opinion for adults.

But if they will catch you here, still against your will into the psych ward, and the Court says, there is no right for N.

OK I'm confused.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

What kinda waiting period roughly? 6 months?

I'd say it should be situation dependent as long as 6 months for those under a certain age—say 25 or 30. And down to no or negligible waiting period for those over 50 and/or the terminally ill.

 

[trianglesplayhouse]

Am I missing something or are they contradiction to each other?

What do you mean? There should be a waiting period no matter who you are.

 

[deflationary]

Ideally no one should exist in the first place and that would solve all problems around suicide. But since society already exists and it doesn't seem like it's of a mind to stop existing anytime soon, some rules about it are inevitably gonna have to be in place. I don't think a society that doesn't set any roadblocks for any of its people wanting to kill themselves is imaginable, or that it would be the best kind of society. Social ties would have to be super weak and people totally expendable.

I don't think any suicide is tragic for the person that's dead though. From that perspective, I don't really have a problem with anyone killing themselves. Not 8 year olds nor impulse suicides after break-ups. I only feel bad for the situations that drove people to such situations, not for all the life they're missing out on. Death doesn't harm dead people.

So I think any obstacles to suicide are there for the sake of other people. Since parents basically own their kids under our social rules, I guess young kids can't be allowed to kill themselves. I don't inherently have a problem with it, but I don't think kids having the option of killing themselves will ever be a thing. I only feel strongly about the opposite scenario: parents wanting to kill themselves when they have young kids. I think that should be discouraged and prevented as much as possible. For example, I don't think regular, healthy parents should have the option of euthanasia, unlike every other kind of adult. Parents should be responsible for the well-being of their kids first and foremost.

In summary, in and of itself there's nothing wrong with anyone killing themselves. But since we're playing society, there's always gonna be some compromise between the individual and the group.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

I think there are two distinct groups of people that should hold off on killing themselves in most, if not all cases, and that's minors and parents of minors. But every single person has the right, it's body autonomy plain and simple.

I think there should be limits on parents of minors, but not on minors themselves.

The parents have a duty to raise the minor(s) to adulthood, and them CTB'ing undermines that duty. The minors, on the other hand, should be free to CTB on their own accord. After all, the reason minors often CTB is due to how their parents treat them. (Although sometimes it's the bullying in school.) Not to mention, minors have no legal ways to take their mind off their misery, like tobacco, alcohol, or prescription pills. So the mere possibility of losing their child to suicide will deter parents from abusing their child, and that's a net gain for everyone.

I had active suicide plans since I was 6. I remember staring longingly at butcher knives in my parents' kitchen, as I contemplated stabbing myself in the neck or the heart. (Not a reliable method, I know, but I was a kid.) Why? My parents were very strict, to the point where death felt less scary than their punishments.

 

[Someone123]

I think there should be limits on parents of minors, but not on minors themselves.

The parents have a duty to raise the minor(s) to adulthood, and them CTB'ing undermines that duty. The minors, on the other hand, should be free to CTB on their own accord. After all, the reason minors often CTB is due to how their parents treat them. (Although sometimes it's the bullying in school.) Not to mention, minors have no legal ways to take their mind off their misery, like tobacco, alcohol, or prescription pills. So the mere possibility of losing their child to suicide will deter parents from abusing their child, and that's a net gain for everyone.

It's an interesting theory, but we have to know that in practice it won't get easier to ctb, except maybe for people with painful physicla illnesses- even that is a long shot to ever change in the u.s., especiallyh with the makeup of thwe supreme court right now- you can bet it will be many years before there is any chance of this going in the direction of making it easier to ctb. Pro-life regardless (6 of 9 justices are on the right, and they tend young, so it will be a long, long time before this could change).