Discussion Do you think that the information regarding the methods should be accessible to everyone?

[Versailles]

About the title, I asked myself this question while I was collaborating with other members to help the community, I wanted to know what opinion you have regarding the accessibility of the information of the methods, from a general perspective, do you think it should be accessible to any human being or should it be restricted to a certain group of people?, if asked, my answer would be quite neutral, I do not tend to reserve personal opinions on certain things

 

[Cheza_mus]

As for me , I would want that information to be accessible to everyone except minors...

 

[FuneralCry]

I believe in the right to die for all, it is our life and our decision and nobody should be forced to live. Without method information, people are more likely to attempt risky methods that can fail in order to end their pain. I think it is important for people to be able to read experiences about method failures so they know what not to do.

 

[StarryStarry]

I appreciate having that information available to me. Unfortunately, there are those who are underage and on this site (again, I ask where are the parents and why are they not monitoring the web sites their kids are on) who will use this information. It is impossible to know who is underage and who is not. btw - I am so over the age of 18 I'm a prehistoric.

 

[yive]

the right to die should be unconditional for everyone, without exceptions. that's my position

 

[olkf]

I think methods should be accessible to everyone including minors. I would like to hear the thought process on excluding them. It's no different than limiting methods to only old people

 

[WatermelonMel]

Should be accessible to everyone as I believe everyone has the right to die just like they have the right to live. No one should be able to take that freedom away.

 

[dreadpirateroberts69]

As long as minors are allowed on the internet at all they will have access to method info whether or not it's from this site. I believe everyone has the right to die, but at the same time if you're a teenager your brain isn't developed enough to make a decision like that. It's unfortunate that so many people, especially young people, choose violent methods that are traumatizing to others when there are more peaceful methods available.

 

[diyCTB]

As for me , I would want that information to be accessible to everyone except minors...

Is this possible technically and cannot be bypassed? How to ensure that only people who are mature enough to know what they are doing here and who have exhausted all of their options can access this information and not people who are not "ready" who act on emotions, lacking rational thinking that can pose danger to themselves and cause collateral damage to this community?

 

[lostautist]

I guess I'm a little conflicted. I wouldn't want it used irresponsibly by minors for a spontaneous or irrational reaction. I don't think any speech or information should be blocked or banned.

 

[olkf]

I guess I'm a little conflicted. I wouldn't want it used irresponsibly by minors for a spontaneous or irrational reaction. I don't think any speech or information should be blocked or banned.

Most methods here require some kind of planning

 

[fatefulstillness]

All I can say is I've been desperate for an exit before and I would've done a lot of unnecessary harm to myself had I not recently learned about methods and how things can go so terribly wrong without the right information. It would feel awful to exclude others who are in the same situation I used to be, now that I have access to a safer exit.

People have the right to die just like they have the right to live, and no one should be forced to suffer an agonizing death. I believe this is why this place is so important, other than the support you find here. Ever since I found this place I have felt safer, because the kind of judgement you find anywhere else can certainly push you over the edge and lead you to a gruesome and lonely death.

Ignorance only causes more suffering.

 

[lostautist]

Most methods here require some kind of planning

I know. I don't support restricting or banning information.

 

[Julgran]

All suicide methods should be public property, in my opinion.

Firstly, as others have pointed out, it may provide easy access to effective suicide methods to people, who might otherwise have chosen a very gruesome method.

Secondly, on of those very gruesome methods could be being hit by a train, which involves other people involuntarily, which is unfair - so access to an effective method can prevent innocent, involuntary bystanders from participating in someone else's suicide.

Thirdly, no one chose to be born, so we are all basically living out an 80 year long prison sentence that our parents saddled us with. Now, it's our right to end that prison sentence by ending our own lives.

Fourthly, we have no way of knowing who anyone is, or how old they are, so there's no way of filtering out under-age people, for example.

In my view, the right to die is equally as important as the right now to die by someone else's hand. In other words, no one should fear being killed, and no one should feel compelled to live against their will.

 

[FinalPeace]

I don't think they should be restricted. However, restricting access to the info based on some amount of time, post history, and discretionary mod review before it can be accessed is a reasonable solution.

This is the only way to manage the media bias issues if that is your main concern. There are kids and people with bad intentions that may join this site hoping to access it, then falsely blame the site or its members for a suicide.

Frankly speaking if one is interested in dying they will figure out how to do it without this site. This site did not invent suicide. This site just appears to have a media bias issue that can't be resolved while members retain their right to anonymity. Its the reason Nitschke is able to be bold about his cause outside of hiding behind 1) the narrative that only those 50+ should qualify, and 2) his potentially fake, PR friendly, opinion that mentally ill should not qualify for self-deliverance and assisted suicide related materials.

Jumping off a really tall building has 99%+ success rate and is free to all. Other methods such as N can be obtained in third world countries if one is savvy enough. Full suspension hanging requires maybe 1-3 minutes of struggle to achieve the goal. I'd argue that 1-3 minutes is doable when one is determined. Guns and drugs such as heroine (for overdose) are widely accessible in most countries.

In reality this site can't perfectly be everything for everyone. That's just plain impossible to do for any person or company. Attempting to satisfy everyone often causes an entity--human or business-- to lose its stated purpose and focus.


So the more important questions to debate amongst yourselves are:

1) is having methods available to all most important to the site?

2) or is maintaining a safe space with minimal public scrutiny more important?

If method discussion is allowed here then people can educate themselves on their own overtime. They dont need a perfectly canned list available to them from Day 1 if they are very determined. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Meretlein]

As of now society operates from the perspective of a peaceful death being a privilege that one must plead their case to a higher authority to receive. It should be the opposite, an outside body should be the one to plead why an individual does not deserve access to a peaceful death. It would not be hard for an outside body to justify temporary exclusion from the right to die in certain cases, such as a minor who just went through a break up.

 

[Versailles]

As of now society operates from the perspective of a peaceful death being a privilege that one must plead their case to a higher authority to receive.

Looking on the positive side, this could be seen as progress, not in the right direction but it all depends on how the Overton window is managed, in the country where I am, more freedoms are being applied with respect to the right to die, although very slowly as religion has quite a bit of influence in politics here.

or is maintaining a safe space with minimal public scrutiny more important?

I guess this point is more important, although I don't see how both points would conflict

 

[milly]

I think methods should be accessible to everyone including minors. I would like to hear the thought process on excluding them. It's no different than limiting methods to only old people

Yep. If you exclude minors, how about people with mental illness?

 

[FinalPeace]

I guess this point is more important, although I don't see how both points would conflict

My assumption was that the methods were removed because of the media coverage and fake accounts joined to harass people, based on my cursory review of various posts here. I'm new so I don't have all the details. If that is the case then making them available returns the website to a position of receiving maximum scrutiny.

Lostallhope doesn't even have a forum and it seems they have also removed methods. There could only be one reason they did that, which I assumed to be protection from public scrutiny.

 

[FinalPeace]

Yep. If you exclude minors, how about people with mental illness?

Not sure those are comparable. If you switch the subject to alcoholic beverages it doesn't really workout. It probably follows that it shouldn't workout for suicide either.

 

[Pen>Sword]

I think the suicide guides should be reserved to members only. There may be underaged people accessing the information even without an account. I know that they could make a fake email and join, but if they ever admit they're underage, at least a mod could ban them and their IP address for the time being. It should only be restricted to us.

I've seen someone who admitted that he's 17 years old, and he got banned. At least it may seem that we're doing something in the eyes of some observers.

 

[Looooser]

I think in general it should be available to anyone. However my first thought was, for this site, maybe it should only be available for members only. When I first heard about this site in the media methods were still available and I got some ideas. But they didn't work and when I came back to the site the methods had been disabled. I ended up getting frustrated but a few weeks later I came back here and the methods were back on. I decided to become a member and started participating in discussions and that's been helpful for now. So maybe only bought me more time before I ctb but I have felt better using this site. And maybe that would help with weeding out minors if people were that concerned about it. It is sad that minors deal with suicide before they've had a chance to experience a life.

 

[Al Cappella]

In a perfect world, all information should be freely available to all. But. It's not a perfect world, and so some gatekeeping is probably a good idea. Especially in this age of moral outrage and the nanny state.

I do know there needs to truth out in the world about suicidality, from people who live it. I came up when they tried to ban Ozzy records for causing suicide. You sure as hell never talked about it. Information doesn't cause suicide. It never has, and never will.

 

[Versailles]

I came up when they tried to ban Ozzy records for causing suicide.

Yes, I remember that before anything could be called satanic or insane, I wonder what would have happened if the forum existed in some way in those times

 

[slagiatt]

Should be available to everyone

We didn't choose to be born, but everyone has a right to choose when and how they die

 

[Ethereal Knight]

my body = my choice.
what I do to myself is no one's business.
spoiler alert: in the end freedoms wins.

 

[markimobzzdeasui]

I believe it should be somewhat restricted because of the current situation of the world. People are against suicide because of many many reasons including political, socio-economic, psychological, religious and inherent narcissism. If such method will be out there to general population then I think it will inadvertently result in more stigma around suicide,ultimately leading to more harm for suicidal people only. Considering how low tolerant, diverse,complex and confusing today's world is, surrounded by internet and social media, I fear it might not be fruitful. Instead of that, there should be first real empathetic understanding and respect for suicidal people and their decisions. Side by side, such info should be accessible to people in a safe community like this, so their interests and rights are protected to some degree. Just my opinion.

 

[woknows]

I think that access to information is beneficial, but you should probably get a legal opinion on that one.
Depending on where you are located, it might make you criminally liable or not. I am pretty sure you should already know the answer to this.