Do you think some people are destined to commit suicide

[Peace2peace]

I guess am one of them

 

[Bruce]

Bloody hell people! I'm cracking up! If this world would be dying (and maybe it is actually) and I would have the option of choosing people worthy of going to a different planet and keeping this race alive then I would choose all of you. I would destine you (yeah, I just invented that word) to live.

Some say its a part of peoples soul plan

You know, some time ago, back when I first joined SaSu I was chatting with this doctor guy from Brazil. Very nice and super smart fellow. I kept beating myself up and he (like most people around here) was trying to be supportive and to provide comfort until one day when he realized something and he told me "Dude, you know what you're doing? You're wrapping yourself in pain!". And he was right, I do this! I think it's a defensive mechanism maybe? Maybe remebering and keeping aware of the pain reminds me to be careful. Like when you burn yourself and you keep thinking about the pain then you definitely stay away from fire. Anyway, my point is that since I'm keeping aware of the pain, since I feel the pain so often then maybe it's my way of giving myself a reason to CTB, maybe this is the plan.

I don't believe in destiny but I am definitely not good for anything in this world. I don't deserve to breathe this oxygen, to eat this food or to drink this water.
I am the most disgusting, dumb, ugly, fat, horrible person on the planet.

No! You're wrong! I think you're the most smart, beautiful, thin and wonderful person on the planet. Well, second actually. I'm the first! Obviously! ; )

I'm not sure about destined. But lately I've started believing that we have no free will.

The actions that we take are simply a result of the things affecting us in life. We can't see all those factors so we can't predict it, but that doesn't make it less true. Sometimes our actions are clear and we make choices that we understand why we make. And sometimes the reason we choose is clouded to us. But there are always reasons.

So in that sense, sure, yeah. Some are destined to ctb. But I think it's less about destiny and more about inevitability. It's simply where I was born and with what biological and social surroundings, what people and things I came across in life. There was never a choice.

We respond to what is happening around us in the best way we can, the best way we know how. I think there is free will, just, limited. : (

No , I believe that we are pushed to it when we have no other options both with our real world situations and with the wars that go inside our own heads.

No one really wants to just die we are pushed to it .
No , I believe that we are pushed to it when we have no other options both with our real world situations and with the wars that go inside our own heads.

No one really wants to just die we are pushed to it .

Too right mate! I'm so sorry for your troubles! : (

Does... does this also mean that some people are "destined" to live out all their lives without ever committing suicide?

Look, destiny doesn't exist. You don't have to do anything. Especially not things you force yourself to.

The "universe" is not telling you anything; that is just your own mind, I assure you.

The truly best checkpoints are where we examine our own views and where they come from. Best of luck.

Not telling but .. when shit after shit after shit keeps happening then you kind of start to wonder. Do you know what I mean?

I definitely think some people get forced upon a path that makes it far more likely they will CTB. But, I still believe we make that ultimate choice ourselves.

Maybe some things are predetermined. Genes that make us susceptible to illness. Both physical and mental. Maybe we even have genes that govern motivation and the will to live. So- I suppose there's the question- just how much of what we do is by free will?

Still, I think we can overide our impulses. Plenty of people who have 'bad' thoughts don't act on them because they know they're wrong.

I think our ideas on right and wrong when it comes to suicide are informed by our whole life experience. I'm not convinced so many things, so many independent people going about their business in life could be predetermined to that level. Why would they be? Were you predetermined to eat cereal or toast or nothing for breakfast? Surely, that was a choice. Maybe you were more likely to choose one thing over the other but I think the final choice is still ours.

The path to suicide I imagine is preceeded by 100's, maybe 1000's of choices. Maybe some people commit the moment they first have a suicidal thought but, I doubt it. I suspect it's far more insiduous than that. When did life start to go wrong for each of us? At that very moment, did we make any attempt to change our lives for the better? Were we truly destined to make multiple wrong choices that lead us here?

I suppose I see it more that we're simply sentient organisms that struggle to varying degrees. Because we range in our abilities to cope in a world like this and because our lives themselves vary in difficulty. So, we struggle and cope or not cope to varying degrees to begin with.

The choice to actually suicide though can be prevented by common and maybe predermined things like the religion we may have been indoctrinated in, the love/ committment we feel towards our loved ones, our level of fear/ SI. Are some people really more destined to get over those things than others? I just don't know really.

I suppose I don't inderstand why our lives would be predetermined to such a degree though. Who is pretermining them? A God? But, don't most Gods impose religious rules they expect people to obey in order to show their faith? If they were predestined to always obey God, where does faith come into it? Why should they be praised by God for simply doing what they were predestined to do, while a criminal is punished for also doing what they were predestined to do? Their choices were made for them. Why would they be held accountable for them?

Plus, I suppose I just see predeteminism as an excuse. People can simply say: I was destined to fail. I was destined to commit that crime. It removes all accountability. I think we would dessolve into chaos if everyone simply followed their own selfish drives and didn't take accountability/ responsibility for their actions.

That's not to say life isn't shit though. Some people repeatedly pick themselves up only to be slapped back down. I don't really blame anyone at really any stage for wondering whether it's even worth it! But again- that's more to do with choice I believe. An assessment of the world and their place in it and a reluctance to want to participate anymore. That's my feeling anyhow.

"How many times could a man fall before he no longer stood back up?"

"It was better not to resist. This was his lot, and he was resigned to it.
There was a certain power in that, a freedom."

 

[ma0]

I fucking hope I am..

 

[Bruce]

i totally think this. i have a shit ton of mental illnesses (bpd and ptsd are definitely my biggest problems) and i feel like this world wasnt made for ppl like me. i cant handle it at all and i feel like theres no way im gonna be able to survive in this hellspace bc of my stupid, damaged brain

Your brain is not stupid, damaged, maybe, but not stupid, never stupid! In a better world I think at least some of your wounds could be healed, but not in this world, this world is not ours. I'm sorry for what you're going through! <3

I don't believe in destiny, but I think my end will be self-inflicted. It's hard to imagine myself growing older, I'm 27 years old with currently zero social prospects in life, no friends, no relationships.
The only family member that cares about me is my mother, and really it's the only thing preventing me from CTBing. After she dies, it'll be just a matter of time and method.

When I was your age I was like that. I'm 42 now and I'm still like that. At some point things seemed to be improving but in the end, they didn't. I simply cannot integrate and play dumb. Now I'm back to square one. The good news is that I'm close to the end, I hope. This was definitely not a nice ride! I should have ended it sooner but I'm a dreamer, I kept hoping that the sun will rise for me as well.

 

[hybridtheory]

No , I believe that we are pushed to it when we have no other options both with our real world situations and with the wars that go inside our own heads.

No one really wants to just die we are pushed to it .
No , I believe that we are pushed to it when we have no other options both with our real world situations and with the wars that go inside our own heads.

No one really wants to just die we are pushed to it .

God I love the way you worded this. It's so damn accurate

 

[JesiBel]

Yes (for me), I am a useless failure. There is no point in trying to give life another chance. Nothing works out for me.

 

[The_Hunter]

No , I believe that we are pushed to it when we have no other options both with our real world situations and with the wars that go inside our own heads.

No one really wants to just die we are pushed to it .
No , I believe that we are pushed to it when we have no other options both with our real world situations and with the wars that go inside our own heads.

No one really wants to just die we are pushed to it .

I feel you [on this]. I believe what you said is very true :)

Reminds me of this:

Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.​

That's all it's about. You are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal. It doesn't even mean that you really want to die - it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now. If I start piling weights on your shoulders, you will eventually collapse if I add enough weights... no matter how much you want to remain standing. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Of course you would cheer yourself up, if you could.

Don't accept it if someone tells you, "That's not enough to be suicidal about." There are many kinds of pain that may lead to suicide. Whether or not the pain is bearable may differ from person to person. What might be bearable to someone else, may not be bearable to you. The point at which the pain becomes unbearable depends on what kinds of coping resources you have. Individuals vary greatly in their capacity to withstand pain.

When pain exceeds pain-coping resources, suicidal feelings are the result. Suicide is neither wrong nor right; it is not a defect of character; it is morally neutral. It is simply an imbalance of pain versus coping resources.

You can survive suicidal feelings if you do either of two things: (1) find a way to reduce your pain, or (2) find a way to increase your coping resources.

—https://metanoia.org/suicide/

...say. This reminds me of this very pertinent quotation from the same site as well. Very pertinent to this thread as well.

No one outside of us, nor we ourselves, can accurately determine our risk for dying by suicide. It cannot be determined on the basis of attempts we have or have not made, and it cannot be determined by totaling up the number of our warning sign conditions.

Consider two people who smoke the same number of cigarettes for the same number of years. At age 40 one of them gets cancer and dies. We are like the survivor. For each of us there is someone who had problems similar to ours who is now dead from suicide. Like the survivor, we have a life-endangering condition. The longer it lasts and the worse it gets, the greater the likelihood that we will die.

People who survive unhurt from horrible car accidents, get mild heart attacks, or are threatened by violence from others, are people who have been in serious life-threatening situations.

Our fear of death is just as real and legitimate as theirs. Fortunately, overcoming denial [of whether our thoughts are faked] makes us stronger. It gives us a realistic view of our situation. It motivates us to do whatever it takes to get better and stay better.

—How serious is our condition?, metanoia.org

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[message/post division]

To those of you who call yourselves suicidal and say you give life another opportunity, postponing your intent by a year, a month, or even just a day, I want to say this: you're not different from ordinary people who fill their existence with distractions to prolong it indefinitely. They do it with family, work, love, and fear; you do it with the concept of 'another opportunity.'

If they enjoy it and are content with it, what's wrong with that? The purpose of life is not to "find some absolute truth", but to do what we want and feel something we like.

I believe the "distractions" you speak of are perfectly valid and not wrong at all; if a distraction is fun and fruitful I call it hobby and good practice. Just my two cents. Some may not enjoy certain hobbies or prefer others; but that's an acceptable difference, I say.

This tendency to delay the inevitable is nothing but a human reflex, a struggle to postpone the end. Whether it's living with illness, driving at full speed, climbing mountains, or jumping with a parachute, it's all a way to flirt with the edge of life, perhaps hoping for a 'suicide' that doesn't seem like one.

Nobody aspires living with illness in the same way like the other things you listed. Could you explain the inclusion of illness in this list? I just genuinely don't understand it, and would like to understand your intention as well.

And perhaps the thing wanted is the 'adrenaline feel', people sometimes called 'adrenaline junkies'. And yes, there is a very real "passive ideation" that includes intentionally refusing to avoid dangers to your life out of a passive wish for death; but I am unsure of a connection to this with skydivers and rock-climbers. Some people just like wild thrills that fill their bodies with endorphins; may not be connected with death, necessarily. Maybe it is linked for some, but I would say not the majority of them.

The truth is that the desire to die and the desire to live are two sides of the same coin. Even those who declare themselves suicidal often delay, search for reasons, find excuses, because in the end, death is as scary as life. So, ask yourselves: is this 'another opportunity' truly a way to live, or an illusion to keep postponing what you fear most?

I think the words "excuses, distractions", etc, carry slightly negative connations—when it really there is no good and bad here, L'absent. It is only what a person's will feels with and discords with. And I dare say, if a person likes life—that is valid,—and if a person truly has had all possibility physically or chemically taken from them (such as crippling physical inability like quadraplegia, or psychological illness that leaves one in an incurable uneasable constant hell with not even a day of relief—or any other such similar spot that completely destroys pleasure and future opportunity), then their will for death is valid, too.

A person's will is valid. That is what I say here.

I do agree they are both two sides of the same coin. The coin of a person's will. And I dare say; both are valid.

 

[Kriegsman]

i totally think this. i have a shit ton of mental illnesses (bpd and ptsd are definitely my biggest problems) and i feel like this world wasnt made for ppl like me. i cant handle it at all and i feel like theres no way im gonna be able to survive in this hellspace bc of my stupid, damaged brain

But at the same time I really do think that there might be an alternate timeline to where to don't habe those illnesses and in this timeline there's a reason me and you are handicapped.