Do you think SI is the same as (false) hope?

[oversizedsweaters]

Hi guys,

So I was talking with a friend about survival instinct and trying to explain it to her. I told her that all organisms have instincts caused by evolution, but because humans have consciousness it can sometimes be better to ignore your instincts.

I tried to explain it to her by an example of food: Most humans like sweet food the most because it has the most calories, and in the past it meant someone could survive longer with that kind of food, so instinct is to eat sweet food. But now that in most parts of the world people can eat whatever they want, it's healthier to not only eat sugary food, and in that way you'll follow your ability to think and your consciousness in my opinion.

She understood what I meant, and then asked if I see hope as an instinct. And to be honest I never compaired hope to SI, but I think in some way it can be the same, and I was wondering what others think about this. Hope can mean that you're holding on for a reason that you might not even know, there's some part of you that can hope things get better, even when you know that would never happen. (Don't get me wrong, sometimes things can get better, but I think that even when you're 100% sure it won't, there might be a part of you that still hopes it does, even when this is not possible at all)

I hope my explanation is a bit understandable And I'm really curious about how others think of this

 

[Doombox]

SI is a non-conscious, animal part of you that will fight for survival. This is shown when people sometimes lose consciousness and still perform some feat that causes them to survive their suicide attempt. I think hope is a "higher order feeling" generated in part of the brain that doesn't even need to be online when SI kicks in.

 

[Deleted member 31858]

I would say yes. That hope is what made me forget about ctb in october. But I think my hope is fading.

 

[lostmyacc]

I also think SI can be like tricking you by misleading you in a way. Giving you hope could be one aspect of it, making you think about things in a different light too.


I mean if the brain is powerful enough to try avoid suicide, what else would it do?

 

[YourNeighbor]

SI, as that term is used here, simply means fear of death. People use it as a euphemism perhaps because it is not seen as acceptable to admit a fear of death. You'll see ridiculous statements like "I'm not afraid of death, but that darn SI..."

Instinct, of course, refers to an act that requires no cognition. Consciously realizing that ingesting poison will kill, and choosing not to do it, is not an instinctual act.

 

[oversizedsweaters]

SI is a non-conscious, animal part of you that will fight for survival. This is shown when people sometimes lose consciousness and still perform some feat that causes them to survive their suicide attempt. I think hope is a "higher order feeling" generated in part of the brain that doesn't even need to be online when SI kicks in.

Interesting, I never thought about the fact that SI could also occur when you're unconscious, but I now realize that's also possible. In that way it's SI of only your body, and that's indeed not possible for hope

I would say yes. That hope is what made me forget about ctb in october. But I think my hope is fading.

I'm so sorry to hear that :( I hope things will feel a little lighter for you soon, whether it's because your life gets better or because you choose to exit

I also think SI can be like tricking you by misleading you in a way. Giving you hope could be one aspect of it, making you think about things in a different light too.


I mean if the brain is powerful enough to try avoid suicide, what else would it do?

Owh okay, so in that way hope can be a part of SI, but SI itself is more than only hope (if I understand you correctly).

SI, as that term is used here, simply means fear of death. People use it as a euphemism perhaps because it is not seen as acceptable to admit a fear of death. You'll see ridiculous statements like "I'm not afraid of death, but that darn SI..."

Instinct, of course, refers to an act that requires no cognition. Consciously realizing that ingesting poison will kill, and choosing not to do it, is not an instinctual act.

Owh okay, I understood it in a different way then. Thanks for your explanation!

 

[FuneralCry]

I mostly associate the SI with someone being close to attempting ctb, or actually attempting ctb yet they feel like they are unable to do it, even know the person wants to die. The SI is why methods like hanging and drowning are so difficult as all humans are programmed to survive.

I do think that false hope could be a part of the SI, trying to convince us to live, even know we know that things are hopeless. I think that I am glad that I have no hope at all, as having any kind of hope just seems to lead to more suffering. I do wish that suicide is easier though and in general, the SI can certainly mean that suicide is difficult.

 

[9BBN]

SI, as that term is used here, simply means fear of death. People use it as a euphemism perhaps because it is not seen as acceptable to admit a fear of death. You'll see ridiculous statements like "I'm not afraid of death, but that darn SI..."

Instinct, of course, refers to an act that requires no cognition. Consciously realizing that ingesting poison will kill, and choosing not to do it, is not an instinctual act.

I'm not afraid of death, it's just my SI!!!!

 

[Smart No More]

SI, as that term is used here, simply means fear of death. People use it as a euphemism perhaps because it is not seen as acceptable to admit a fear of death. You'll see ridiculous statements like "I'm not afraid of death, but that darn SI..."

Instinct, of course, refers to an act that requires no cognition. Consciously realizing that ingesting poison will kill, and choosing not to do it, is not an instinctual act.

Utter bollocks!

Clearly hasn't experienced it but assumes knowledge nonetheless. Ignorant at best.

Think of it like this,... Ever been in a situation where you ran faster, jumped higher, fought more effectively, been briefly stronger out of fear for what/who's chasing you or the situation you're in? You made some actions there that wrre surely choice but the boost in ability is instinctual. You have no control over it. Survival instinct is very similar. As someone thst tried to die and failed after passing out because my body/instinct somehow pulled me out I can tell you survival instinct is entirely real even for those that want to die. Some hide behind the term, sure but it doesn't make it any less real. Many hide behind excuses but excuses can be genuine reasons too. That's why the excuse is adopted in attempts to convincingly lie.

Instict may not be controllable but it can control you!

Another way of looking at it, which probably more sensible and understandable is bungee jumping or sky diving. A person can trust the parachute or bungee cord and kit and may really want to jump but their instinct is holding them back and they have to overcome it. They're both afraid and not afraid in the same moment. It's a visceral instinct which you have to fight because even though logical you made your peace with it and actually covet it your instict which has developed over the whole of human history to help us survive in the very worst circumstances is screaming at yoy, releasing various chemicals into your bload stream in order to help you survive. Overcoming that and winning it over is not a simple task even when you're determined.

Similarly in heated situations or in accidents you may fight or get hurt and feel no pain. You're injured an hurt but you don't feel it because survival instinct has released chemicals into your blood stream and brain to help you fight and/or survive an othereise insurmountable situation. Once you're out of the situation and those chemicals 'wear off' the pain comes and treatment is saught but in the moment theres no time for that. You even hear of people not bleeding until they know they're wounded in some cases. I experienced this when stabbed. Home invaders tied me up and tortured me in attempts to get valuable items. They sliced into my foot and that bled everywhere but the cut was relatively shallow. Certainly shallower that the hole in my back where they stabbed me as I was escaping. I didn't even know it eas there until an officer pointed out a hole in the back of my shirt. I pulled it up and remember saying "ah shit, I've been stabbed". It didn't even hurt. I didn't even know it was there. They had to put a little rod in there to measure the deapth of the wound. It was a couple of inches. All the time it never bled. I jumped down a three story set of stairs bare foot thst night. In my escape. They broke furniture over me which I expected to hurt but it didn't. I felt it of course but it was just a dull and heavy clunk. My head was in the long game because instinct, survival indtinct put me there. I didn't control that, it controlled me. Sportspeople would give a hell of a lot to be able to control that and turn it on at will.


Oh, what happened to @YourNeighbor? They're crossed out? Anyone know if they self banned or?

 

[ornitier199]

No it's not. It's a resist to fight back against death. It's a barrier that only be removed for me with repression, a recurring theme in everything me, including FK.

 

[Smart No More]

Hi guys,

So I was talking with a friend about survival instinct and trying to explain it to her. I told her that all organisms have instincts caused by evolution, but because humans have consciousness it can sometimes be better to ignore your instincts.

I tried to explain it to her by an example of food: Most humans like sweet food the most because it has the most calories, and in the past it meant someone could survive longer with that kind of food, so instinct is to eat sweet food. But now that in most parts of the world people can eat whatever they want, it's healthier to not only eat sugary food, and in that way you'll follow your ability to think and your consciousness in my opinion.

She understood what I meant, and then asked if I see hope as an instinct. And to be honest I never compaired hope to SI, but I think in some way it can be the same, and I was wondering what others think about this. Hope can mean that you're holding on for a reason that you might not even know, there's some part of you that can hope things get better, even when you know that would never happen. (Don't get me wrong, sometimes things can get better, but I think that even when you're 100% sure it won't, there might be a part of you that still hopes it does, even when this is not possible at all)

I hope my explanation is a bit understandable And I'm really curious about how others think of this

I think I get where you're coming from. It seems like you might be thinking about optimism more than hope. Perhaps somewhere inbetween the two or a combination of the two. I'm speculating on it as optimism is more beneficial in that regard. Hope could be useful but hope is really just a desire for something and whilst that can be a strong pull to motivate a person to do or endure something it has finite longevity. By that I mean it runs out if it's 'used' and a lot of things could cause that to happen. For hope to twindle. Optimism on the other hand is hope+. It's the premium package and it probably does keep many living a happy existence or at least a manageable one as they kind of always believe that one day they'll be fulfilled.

And then there are people who work long hours for low pay and live very modestly and they're happy with it. Self contentment. Is this a survival trait or more of a self preservation thing? We're complexly simple creatures ha.

 

[Medicmedic72]

SI is instinctual. It is something your unconscious mind does to keep you alive.