Discussion Do you think people who choose to take their lives are selfish or do you think the people who try to stop them are selfish?

[DeathKitty]

I had a recent discussion with my friend about this. He thought that people who commit are selfish and I disagree though I can see how he thinks.

I tried to phrase it like this: if one tells you to not eat but you're starving, does it make you selfish if you then eat? I don't know how else to explain it really.

Although taking ones life might cause pain around the people who care about you, it shouldn't be considered as a selfish act - it's like sleeping when tired and eating when hungry and ending it ones you've had enough?

You live with yourself and yourself only, you exist for you and not for others. If you know that there's only one option left, does that really make one selfish to go through with it?

I want to hear some opinions from you guys so if you disagree or agree leave a comment.

 

[sserafim]

I think the people who try to stop them are selfish. It's your life, your choice. You should have the freedom to end it if you want to. People only care about their own emotions and how they would feel if you died. They don't care about your pain and suffering (that's so severe that it makes you want to end your life). They just don't want to lose you or feel the negative emotions that would come with that. Other people shouldn't expect you to live for them. That's what's selfish, not suicide

 

[Ash’Girl]

Self care isn't selfish. Putting your needs first isn't selfish, it's self care.

I don't think either party is selfish, I guess. One wants to escape the pain of life, the other to avoid the pain of loss. Both are putting their own needs first, their needs are just in conflict.

 

[DeathKitty]

I think the people who try to stop them are selfish. It's your life, your choice. People only care about their emotions and how they would feel if you died. They don't care about your pain and suffering that makes you want to end your life. They just don't want to lose you or feel the negative emotions that would come with that. Other people shouldn't expect you to live for them. That's what's selfish, not suicide

I totally agree.
I asked him if he thinks that it's more okay to ctb if no one loves you and he said yes. I think this proves what you just said.

People only care when it's someone they care about where they know that if they died they would get sad.

The worse thing is that all they say is "it'll get better" "just keep fighting" and bla bla bla. They don't even try to look at it from our perspective.

Self care isn't selfish. Putting your needs first isn't selfish, it's self care.

I haven't thought of it like that. I like that.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Both. To exist is to be selfish, everything we do is serving our own desires. Even supposedly selfless acts still do their part in massaging our egos and satisfying our senses of empathy or Justice. Choosing to die is selfish because of the pain it inflicts on those who care and stopping someone from dying just because we care about them still completes our selfish desires to have company in our misery.

Now as to which one is more selfish, I can't say. It depends.

 

[sserafim]

Both. To exist is to be selfish, everything we do is serving our own desires. Even supposedly selfless acts still do their part in massaging our egos and satisfying our senses of empathy or Justice.

Now as to which one is more selfish, I can't say. It depends.

How is suicide selfish?

 

[willitpass]

Self care isn't selfish. Putting your needs first isn't selfish, it's self care.

I don't think either party is selfish, I guess. One wants to escape the pain of life, the other to avoid the pain of loss. Both are putting their own needs first, their needs are just in conflict.

I think this is a wonderful way of putting it. People are so quick to attack the person begging their loved one to stay for being selfish, when in reality they are desperate to not have to experience that pain themselves. Just as we cannot bear the pain of living, they aren't sure they can bear the pain of you leaving. They are not wrong for that wish, just as you are not wrong for choosing to end your pain.

 

[falling_snow]

Well, I can more or less understand the view of prolifes, its painful to have someone leave you, and also many methods are pretty violent (gun, train, cutting,...). But I don't think it's selfish, humans just tend to go with the lesser pain path. So we try to end our suffering and they want to stop suffering from happening. Many people just don't think from the other side, nobody can be happy in any situation.

 

[sserafim]

I think this is a wonderful way of putting it. People are so quick to attack the person begging their loved one to stay for being selfish, when in reality they are desperate to not have to experience that pain themselves. Just as we cannot bear the pain of living, they aren't sure they can bear the pain of you leaving. They are not wrong for that wish, just as you are not wrong for choosing to end your pain.

They expect *you* to stay alive and be in pain though so they don't have to be in pain themselves. That *is* selfish

 

[willitpass]

They expect you to stay alive and be in pain though so they don't have to be in pain themselves. That *is* selfish

And in the same light, we are expecting them to take on the burden of our death so we don't have to be in pain anymore. One could say that is selfish. Or one could say neither are selfish, they are just trying to cope with their own emotions.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

How is suicide selfish?

I elaborated a little in my edit but basically suicide is just another way of putting your own needs first, in this case the needs to be free from suffering, without any consideration for how that would affect anyone else. This is not much worse than trying to change your life in a positive way though especially since many people who choose to do that will still have to step on others' toes just to move forward.

 

[billie]

It's my life, so I do what I want with it

 

[sserafim]

And in the same light, we are expecting them to take on the burden of our death so we don't have to be in pain anymore. One could say that is selfish. Or one could say neither are selfish, they are just trying to cope with their own emotions.

Yeah, but it's your life. You should have freedom and control over it. No one else can live, is living, or will live it for you. You should have the freedom and right to end your pain. No one should expect *you* to suffer just so *they* won't be sad (from your death). In that case, you're basically living for them, not yourself

It's my life, so I do what I want with it

Literally. My life, my choice

 

[UKscotty]

I think its selfish but it's not our fault. Depression causes us to only think of ourselves.

Being suicidal is an illness so calling it selfish is very misleading and not as simple as that.

If we were well, we'd be able to think about others and not just ourselves.

 

[willitpass]

Yeah, but it's your life. You should have freedom and control over it. No one else can or is living it for you

Correct. And at the end of the day there isn't any way for someone asking you to stay to keep you here forever. There are measures they can take to prevent you for awhile but at the end of the day someone wanting you to stay will not prevent you from CTB.

 

[FuneralCry]

I despise those who go on about how suicide is supposedly so "selfish", they should just mind their own business as other people's personal decisions are not about them. We never consented to this existence in the first place and aren't obligated to continue, to me what is so selfish is so cruelly procreating and expecting people to continue suffering no matter what. I don't see why people should have to be punished all because other people were selfish enough to force life here, why should anyone have to continue this existence that only they can experience, that they never chose in the first place if they don't want to. People should be able to choose when they die and it's not other people's decision to make, suicide is a personal decision after all.

 

[DeathKitty]

I despise those who go on about how suicide is supposedly so "selfish", they should just mind their own business as other people's personal decisions are not about them. We never consented to this existence in the first place and aren't obligated to continue, to me what is so selfish is so cruelly procreating and expecting people to continue suffering no matter what. I don't see why people should have to be punished all because other people were selfish enough to force life here, why should anyone have to continue this existence that only they can experience, that they never chose in the first place if they don't want to. People should be able to choose when they die and it's not other people's decision to make, suicide is a personal decision after all.

I couldn't have said it better. This was the argument I was looking for while debating my friend.

We did not choose to live so why can't we choose to die?

 

[Kit1]

I sympathise with both sides. I am pro choice. There is a strong possibility that I will die by suicide one day and only time will tell. However to end my life will be selfish as I have brought two lives into this world - they did not ask to be born and both children state that they are happy and love the family environment. They are my responsibility and if I died by suicide, that will be selfish as it will destroy their happiness and sense of safety bubble. However if another mother in a similar situation to myself ends their life, I will be sympathetic as it is a living hell to exist like this.

Now if my children or husband realise that I am feeling suicidal, they will try their best to ensure my safety. That is not selfish as this is a family relationship based on mutual love and respect and it will shatter their lives and their happiness is dependent on my existence and perceived happiness. I have to take responsibility for the relationships created and built.

Suicide is always a complex area and one of those experiences where most involved parties will suffer at various points.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I think that suicide isn't selfish unless if you have dependents. What is selfish is people keeping suicidal people alive for their own benefits. I think that a peaceful death should be a human right. Why should somebody be obligated continue with life if they don't want to live? It's my life so it should be my choice to decide when to end it. I never wanted to live to begin with and I still don't... I was thrust into existence against my will instead of voluntarily asking to be here

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I despise those who go on about how suicide is supposedly so "selfish", they should just mind their own business as other people's personal decisions are not about them. We never consented to this existence in the first place and aren't obligated to continue, to me what is so selfish is so cruelly procreating and expecting people to continue suffering no matter what. I don't see why people should have to be punished all because other people were selfish enough to force life here, why should anyone have to continue this existence that only they can experience, that they never chose in the first place if they don't want to. People should be able to choose when they die and it's not other people's decision to make, suicide is a personal decision after all.

Just because something is selfish doesn't mean it's so bad. It's a choice we should have every right to make yes, but that doesn't take away from the fact it is a choice we are making purely for ourselves. Again, that shouldn't matter much anyway.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'd say both actions are selfish and for the same reasons- we don't know what it's like to be that other person.

They have no idea what we're going through. So, they simply don't understand what an enormous ask it is that we just keep going. They probably don't want to accept that if we do keep going, we could well be miserable for the rest of our lives. They want to believe that things will improve for us and we'll be grateful we stuck around.

On the other hand, we can't really predict how our suicides will affect people. It could devastate them to the point that they become suicidal themselves.

I think it's unfair for either person to expect the other to feel a certain way. Effectively in both cases- we're saying- don't let that terribly traumatic thing trouble you so much. In both cases, it's unrealistic. We all have a right to be affected by traumatic things.

What I would say about suicide though is- the prime motivation isn't to gain something. Most selfish acts are to gain something. When we don't want to lose loved ones to death, it is because we selfishly want to keep them in our lives. I think most suicidal people are just utterly desperate to escape pain of some description. It surely isn't selfish to want to be out of pain. The problem is, the pro-lifer won't acknowledge that pain and/or they will believe the person's problems are solvable. So, I think a lot of the time, their feelings come from a lack of understanding rather than some sadistic wish that the person should remain here and suffer.

But- I'd say hurting people is the most unfortunate side effect to suicide. It's so bad in fact that many of us (including me) are holding on for the sake of other people. I wish that was more acknowledged. Some of us have been hanging on for years- even decades just so as not to upset other people! Seriously- if anyone calls me selfish if I do it, I'm going to come back and haunt them! I've hung on 34 years so far.

 

[Ociv]

I think that both can be selfish, depending on how it is done.

If you were to CTB and leave behind problems for your friends or family, that would be selfish. You would need to carefully consider what you leave behind and do everything reasonably within your power to lessen their suffering.

Though, if you are truly suffering, and dying would not cause any harm to the people around you, then stopping you from CTB would be selfish, because they would be keeping you around to suffer for the sole reason that they would be sad with you gone.

 

[moshimoshi]

I think neither are selfish

 

[Malaria]

Both are selfish, but being selfish isn't always inherently a bad thing.

 

[1MiserableGuy]

Both. It is impossible to do anything that isn't self motivated.

 

[Orangee]

I agree with most people in this thread saying both are selfish. When you die, you give people around your emotional pain whilst being free of it yourself, which is inherently selfish. But it's also not preventable, it's a selfishness that you can't control because you are in so much pain and death is the only way to be free form all of it.

On the other hand, people who want you to live are also selfish because they don't want to feel the pain of losing you. Again, they aren't exactly choosing to be selfish, just like how we aren't choosing to be selfish. They are just trying to prevent their own pain, which I guess is part of being a human. But by only considering their emotions and not yours, and your reasons for choosing to die, they are being selfish without exactly realizing it.

It's like how if your pet is in a lot of pain and has a terminal illness, you will put them down because you care about them. Making them stay in this world for longer and suffer for longer is selfish.

 

[iloverachel]

Suicidal people are not selfish
They do think of the impact it has on loved ones
They just can't escape the pain

 

[Praestat_Mori]

It's selfish to keep suicidal people alive, force therapy and meds on them when they desperately want to leave bc their problems are unsolvable.