Discussion Do you think it's possible to CTB by logic alone?

[Alexei_Kirillov]

People here often talk about how you should only CTB once you feel "ready," but if you've done the calculation and concluded (over months/years/decades) that suicide is the best option for you, do you think it's possible to go through with it based on logic alone? Without necessarily feeling "ready"? Is it even feasible to overcome SI in such a scenario?

I ask because I recently had a window of time where I did feel genuinely ready to CTB, enough to make an (unsuccessful) attempt, but over the past week, for some reason, that pull towards death and the inability to tolerate existence has faded somewhat, even though none of my opinions have changed. I was planning on making another attempt soon but I'm starting to doubt whether I'd be able to go through with it without that overpowering drive to die pushing me forward. If I quit my job, I can actually see myself tolerating another few months of existence (but no more).

But on the other hand, due to several coalescing factors, this month is really an ideal time for me to do it, and I still have everything prepped and ready to go from my last attempt, so it would be trivially easy to make another attempt. If I wait any longer, I'm going to have to start undoing some of my preparations (for example, I had cancelled all my subscriptions, frozen my credit card, cleared out my fridge, etc.), so I kind of have to decide soon. My greatest fear is missing my chance.

A secondary question, what does "feeling ready" mean to you personally?

 

[LittleCupcake]

Its possible to overcome SI when your conscious, unfortunately your body will still try to survive so you have to rely on meds or do a method that your body cant recover from.

I'd describe "feeling ready" as not wanting to live another day, not fearing death and looking forward to when you do another attempt.

 

[LifeIsCrazyNemb]

People here often talk about how you should only CTB once you feel "ready," but if you've done the calculation and concluded (over months/years/decades) that suicide is the best option for you, do you think it's possible to go through with it based on logic alone? Without necessarily feeling "ready"? Is it even feasible to overcome SI in such a scenario?

I ask because I recently had a window of time where I did feel genuinely ready to CTB, enough to make an (unsuccessful) attempt, but over the past week, for some reason, that pull towards death and the inability to tolerate existence has faded somewhat, even though none of my opinions have changed. I was planning on making another attempt soon but I'm starting to doubt whether I'd be able to go through with it without that overpowering drive to die pushing me forward. If I quit my job, I can actually see myself tolerating another few months of existence (but no more).

But on the other hand, due to several coalescing factors, this month is really an ideal time for me to do it, and I still have everything prepped and ready to go from my last attempt, so it would be trivially easy to make another attempt. If I wait any longer, I'm going to have to start undoing some of my preparations (for example, I had cancelled all my subscriptions, frozen my credit card, cleared out my fridge, etc.), so I kind of have to decide soon. My greatest fear is missing my chance.

A secondary question, what does "feeling ready" mean to you personally?

Thats an interesting question.
As a human, we are a creature that lives in an eternal contradictional state. Some os us rationaly wants to die, and thats the logical option, but on the other hand every gene in our body and our inconcious mind fights back. Also our anti CTB culture and religion world view play a important role to convince us to not CTB.

All i know that is really fucking hard to CTB and just a small percentage of the suicide people will eventually suceed. Thats sad but its the reality. I really admire the corageous one who really suceed.

Im living my personal journey to find out what "feeling ready" really means. Despite the fear of the consequences of CTBing, I try to convince myself everyday that its really what i want and try to move forward on my plan.

Fortunately, i fell a little bit less scared each day and somehow i know that i will succeed CTBing. Its very hard to define when you fell ready, maybe this feeling will never come and you just have to step foward anyway.

Good luck, you are not alone.

 

[zengiraffe]

@Alexei_Kirillov, our situations are eerily similar. I feel like I almost could have written your post.

I got really close to doing it today. Extremely close. I stopped because I was worried I would fail, which is a completely irrational fear since I'm using a method with a 99%+ success rate. I blame it on SI. I feel like my SI creates these dumb irrational fears that prevent me from going through with the act in the moment. I should have just done it.

I will say this: I regret every single time I didn't go through with it. My life's biggest mistake, without question, is not killing myself when I was 9 years old when the idea first occurred to me. Second biggest mistake is not killing myself at 13. Third biggest mistake is not killing myself at 17. And so on. I don't know why I don't have the guts to do it. The punishment for my cowardice is continued suffering. I wish it could all be over already.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

If you desire suicide and non-existence like you would a drink of water after not drinking or eating anything for a day or 2 then you are ready imo .

If you see life , all the addictions, and this evil world as the evilest, most painful most disgusting things.... and ctb non-existence as the most beautiful best things by a trillion times.... How could u not be ready.... Imo non-existence is that the most beautiful best thing by a trillion times

Imo It's possible to ctb by logic if u can get to that point where you believe what I wrote in this post

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Thats an interesting question.
As a human, we are a creature that lives in an eternal contradictional state. Some os us rationaly wants to die, and thats the logical option, but on the other hand every gene in our body and our inconcious mind fights back. Also our anti CTB culture and religion world view play a important role to convince us to not CTB.

All i know that is really fucking hard to CTB and just a small percentage of the suicide people will eventually suceed. Thats sad but its the reality. I really admire the corageous one who really suceed.

This is why I'm so conflicted. Among people who are suicidal, most don't even attempt, and among those who attempt, most fail. I feel like I have a chance right now to be among the few who succeed, and I worry that if I don't avail myself of this opportunity, I might be effectively condemning myself to life, which is a very scary possibility, perhaps even scarier than facing the frigid river that I'm going to have to jump into. A few minutes of struggle in exchange for everlasting peace seems like a pretty good deal though...never having to think about this ever again also seems very tempting.

Its very hard to define when you fell ready, maybe this feeling will never come and you just have to step foward anyway.

This is something else I wonder about. Maybe it's a fool's errand to wait for the "right moment," because, like with most big steps in life, it probably will never come. There can only be "good enough" moments, and maybe the moment I'm in now is good enough.

Thanks for your wishes.
@sserafim would be curious to know what you think about this topic

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

@Alexei_Kirillov, our situations are eerily similar. I feel like I almost could have written your post.

I got really close to doing it today. Extremely close. I stopped because I was worried I would fail, which is a completely irrational fear since I'm using a method with a 99%+ success rate. I blame it on SI. I feel like my SI creates these dumb irrational fears that prevent me from going through with the act in the moment. I should have just done it.

I will say this: I regret every single time I didn't go through with it. My life's biggest mistake, without question, is not killing myself when I was 9 years old when the idea first occurred to me. Second biggest mistake is not killing myself at 13. Third biggest mistake is not killing myself at 17. And so on. I don't know why I don't have the guts to do it. The punishment for my cowardice is continued suffering. I wish it could all be over already.

What method is 99% +

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

@Alexei_Kirillov, our situations are eerily similar. I feel like I almost could have written your post.

I got really close to doing it today. Extremely close. I stopped because I was worried I would fail, which is a completely irrational fear since I'm using a method with a 99%+ success rate. I blame it on SI. I feel like my SI creates these dumb irrational fears that prevent me from going through with the act in the moment. I should have just done it.

I will say this: I regret every single time I didn't go through with it. My life's biggest mistake, without question, is not killing myself when I was 9 years old when the idea first occurred to me. Second biggest mistake is not killing myself at 13. Third biggest mistake is not killing myself at 17. And so on. I don't know why I don't have the guts to do it. The punishment for my cowardice is continued suffering. I wish it could all be over already.

I feel your pain. And I know exactly what you mean by SI creating irrational fears, it will truly do anything to perpetuate itself.

I've also regretted not taking previous opportunities. Nothing I've been through in the intervening time has made me feel any differently about that, no matter how good or bad I was doing. One major point in favour of CTBing now is that if I succeed, it will literally be impossible to regret that decision since I won't exist anymore. But if I miss this chance, then I could very well regret that decision. And continue suffering on top of that. I wish it could all be over already indeed...

 

[zengiraffe]

@Alexei_Kirillov so what do you feel is stopping you? Or what do you feel would give you the courage to finally go through with it?

For me, aside from my SI generating irrational fears, I'm also a very analytical and methodical person, and since I feel like I only have one true shot at CTBing I need to make it "perfect" so that I don't fail, but that's just another trick my SI plays on me, since perfection for anything is always out of reach, so if I wait until I feel like I have prepared everything "perfectly" I would never do it.

 

[Jiyuurakka]

People here often talk about how you should only CTB once you feel "ready," but if you've done the calculation and concluded (over months/years/decades) that suicide is the best option for you, do you think it's possible to go through with it based on logic alone? Without necessarily feeling "ready"? Is it even feasible to overcome SI in such a scenario?

I ask because I recently had a window of time where I did feel genuinely ready to CTB, enough to make an (unsuccessful) attempt, but over the past week, for some reason, that pull towards death and the inability to tolerate existence has faded somewhat, even though none of my opinions have changed. I was planning on making another attempt soon but I'm starting to doubt whether I'd be able to go through with it without that overpowering drive to die pushing me forward. If I quit my job, I can actually see myself tolerating another few months of existence (but no more).

But on the other hand, due to several coalescing factors, this month is really an ideal time for me to do it, and I still have everything prepped and ready to go from my last attempt, so it would be trivially easy to make another attempt. If I wait any longer, I'm going to have to start undoing some of my preparations (for example, I had cancelled all my subscriptions, frozen my credit card, cleared out my fridge, etc.), so I kind of have to decide soon. My greatest fear is missing my chance.

A secondary question, what does "feeling ready" mean to you personally?

In a way, I don't think it is upto a person to decide when they end their life. That desire to end yourself purely exists in the moment, dictated by factors kept outside of your control. If you do premeditated calculations to go through with it later, that drive that once existed would most likely have disappeared. Like most things (happiness for instance), suicidal drive can be fleeting. Logical or illogical, the possibility of a successful attempt always exists, once taken, then it will become logical.

To me, feeling ready would mean,
"There is no difference between life and death anymore. Living is dying and dying is living, the meanings have swapped. If I were to continue a moment longer what other people call living, I would feel like death. But if I were to die, wouldn't that action be the one closest to living? Since I want to live, I will die."

 

[escape_from_hell]

I ask because I recently had a window of time where I did feel genuinely ready to CTB, enough to make an (unsuccessful) attempt, but over the past week, for some reason, that pull towards death and the inability to tolerate existence has faded somewhat, even though none of my opinions have changed.

Any insights about what helped you reach that state? Was it just a particularly depressing time or some other kind of feeling?

I guess we cannot force it. The other thing is that every time I find more resolve for suicide, I feel more at peace. And that peace it brings makes it a teeter-totter. It's like the peace of knowing you want to die is itself a type of SI to overcome.

 

[deathslament]

Any insights about what helped you reach that state? Was it just a particularly depressing time or some other kind of feeling?

I guess we cannot force it. The other thing is that every time I find more resolve for suicide, I feel more at peace. And that peace it brings makes it a teeter-totter. It's like the peace of knowing you want to die is itself a type of SI to overcome.

Whose we?

 

[escape_from_hell]

Whose we?

Just speaking generally that it seems tough for we (humans) to force the feeling of being ready to CTB.
Meaning it seems there are opportune moments of inspiration instead I guess. For me I'm just slowly but surely getting everything ready and then it'll be available when that truly awful moment pushes me over the edge. When I set dates I keep finding excuses and procrastinating on the steps I want to get done (to make it easier for my family).

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

@Alexei_Kirillov so what do you feel is stopping you? Or what do you feel would give you the courage to finally go through with it?

For me, aside from my SI generating irrational fears, I'm also a very analytical and methodical person, and since I feel like I only have one true shot at CTBing I need to make it "perfect" so that I don't fail, but that's just another trick my SI plays on me, since perfection for anything is always out of reach, so if I wait until I feel like I have prepared everything "perfectly" I would never do it.

I think it's just the ebb and flow of acute suicidality, as @Jiyuurakka was saying, combined with the fact that my method is one of the scarier ones. So I have to really be in a position where I find one more minute of existence to be intolerable in order to brave it. I'm always measuring suicide--and all the discomfort that comes with it--up against the safety and comfort of my bed (and sleep), which is hard to beat. When that feeling comes back though, I don't think there will be anything stopping me. Honestly, having one attempt already under my belt makes me feel a little better because it proves that when the time comes, I am capable of overcoming SI.

In a way, I don't think it is upto a person to decide when they end their life. That desire to end yourself purely exists in the moment, dictated by factors kept outside of your control. If you do premeditated calculations to go through with it later, that drive that once existed would most likely have disappeared. Like most things (happiness for instance), suicidal drive can be fleeting. Logical or illogical, the possibility of a successful attempt always exists, once taken, then it will become logical.

To me, feeling ready would mean,
"There is no difference between life and death anymore. Living is dying and dying is living, the meanings have swapped. If I were to continue a moment longer what other people call living, I would feel like death. But if I were to die, wouldn't that action be the one closest to living? Since I want to live, I will die."

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, welcome to the site :)

I like that definition of what it means to feel ready. It reminds me of a quote from the fictional character my username is based on:

Full freedom will come only when it makes no difference whether to live or not to live.

Any insights about what helped you reach that state? Was it just a particularly depressing time or some other kind of feeling?

Yeah I think it was just a particularly depressing time. February was the worst month I've had in over three years and I became practically dysfunctional, had to take a bunch of time off work, stopped attending the few remaining commitments I had, couldn't tolerate being around other people. Plus, at that point I had been planning and preparing my CTB for two months already, and so my every thought was suicide suicide suicide. I guess that takes a toll; the last thing I wrote in my journal before I made my attempt was: "I'm so tired of thinking about suicide. So so tired."

So maybe I got myself to that state not just by desiring the end of my life, but also by wanting to wash my hands of this whole suicide thing. No one ever tells you how exhausting it is to plan and prepare your own suicide (especially when you're already depressed).

I guess we cannot force it. The other thing is that every time I find more resolve for suicide, I feel more at peace. And that peace it brings makes it a teeter-totter. It's like the peace of knowing you want to die is itself a type of SI to overcome.

Good point. It's like Nietzsche said: "The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night."

 

[escape_from_hell]

No one ever tells you how exhausting it is to plan and prepare your own suicide (especially when you're already depressed).

So damn true.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

People here often talk about how you should only CTB once you feel "ready," but if you've done the calculation and concluded (over months/years/decades) that suicide is the best option for you, do you think it's possible to go through with it based on logic alone? Without necessarily feeling "ready"? Is it even feasible to overcome SI in such a scenario?

I ask because I recently had a window of time where I did feel genuinely ready to CTB, enough to make an (unsuccessful) attempt, but over the past week, for some reason, that pull towards death and the inability to tolerate existence has faded somewhat, even though none of my opinions have changed. I was planning on making another attempt soon but I'm starting to doubt whether I'd be able to go through with it without that overpowering drive to die pushing me forward. If I quit my job, I can actually see myself tolerating another few months of existence (but no more).

But on the other hand, due to several coalescing factors, this month is really an ideal time for me to do it, and I still have everything prepped and ready to go from my last attempt, so it would be trivially easy to make another attempt. If I wait any longer, I'm going to have to start undoing some of my preparations (for example, I had cancelled all my subscriptions, frozen my credit card, cleared out my fridge, etc.), so I kind of have to decide soon. My greatest fear is missing my chance.

A secondary question, what does "feeling ready" mean to you personally?

I don't think you'll find a satisfying answer on here, or anywhere else really. Let me know if you do. I think it's too individualized and circumstantial, and only you will know if you're able to do it whether you feel the time is ready or not. Im sure some have rationalized away the emotion to fight their own self-preservation when the time came that they had the opportunity but wanted to emotionally put it off. They probably reverted back to logic and their reasonings for going through, and at the same time, Im sure some passed on their chance when it came because they knew they could create another opportunity. I think that probably gave them comfort and freedom to back out and live on for whatever reason, knowing they had the "tools" in their back pocket should they need them. Think it's a phenomena really. Good luck.

 

[BlockHammer]

Short answer, i believe so, usually people ready to commit suicide cause they try everything and yet nothing change or something change but that's not enough to make you appriciate the world and life it self. I think one of the reason why people say that it's not logical to ctb because according to some data there's a lot of people who heal themself from mental illnes (i dont know which one is the specific data) and sometimes these type of people according to some therapist in youtube is that they haven't got the help that they need to overcome their suicidality, im also have to mention about the difficulty in choosing methode to off your self.

But do note that some people don't have the same standard of logic when it came to making this crucial decision like this. What's right for you can be wrong for me, what's difficult for me might be easy for you vise versa, wel live in this world that have a ton of ideology and way of life so it's hard to point out what's right and wrong. So if there's a discussion about ctb, it sometimes or often that you encounter a discussion that is half finished because they didn't have the same logic standard, i forgot to mention about life circumstance that prevent us to understand each other.

In summary, i think it's logical to decided to off yourself after reflecting onto your life due to the data that has been provide and also diffrence logic standard, people still confused wheater or not ctb is a logical decision or just a mere impulse
One more thing about feeling ready, just like my previous statement people have their own standard, but for me if i have try everything to make myself financially independent but still going nowhere, and also have the right methode. Then that's when i ready myself for ctb

 

[destinationlosangel]

I think so.

I was talking about this with a friend of mine from here.

We were talking about listing out all the pros and cons. Over the years, what was good, what was bad about our lives etc etc.

So in that way, depending on what your 'balance sheet' looks like, it may be possible to make a logical, rational decision.

And once that decision is made, it's not like there aint no turning back. You can live with it for years even and who knows if by some twist of fate, things get better?

And if things dont get better, you can go back and look at your 'balance sheet'. Do u see things improving? or its just gotten worse. Ideally I think this is the best way to ctb, long periods of thinking rationally. So it doesnt end up being something u did in the heat of the moment.

So to answer ur question, I do that it is possible to ctb by logic alone.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

No. CTB is the logical solution for me by any reasonable assessment and I still don't have a feeling of readiness, even though I shouldn't have any problem summoning the motivation.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I would say no, not by logic alone. I can relate to this in some ways. I was very suicidal last year bc of my hopeless situation and in the same time I had more than just enough time to attempt several times. Yet I did not even really attempt. I had several more chances during last year but the more time passed the less suicidal I became although my situation (and the future outlook) hasn't changed. Obviously there was and still is hope especially long term hope for it to get better. Probably impossible to seriously attempt when there is hope of any kind left, even though the decision to CTB is the most logic decision.

 

[Endisclose]

People here often talk about how you should only CTB once you feel "ready," but if you've done the calculation and concluded (over months/years/decades) that suicide is the best option for you, do you think it's possible to go through with it based on logic alone? Without necessarily feeling "ready"? Is it even feasible to overcome SI in such a scenario?

I ask because I recently had a window of time where I did feel genuinely ready to CTB, enough to make an (unsuccessful) attempt, but over the past week, for some reason, that pull towards death and the inability to tolerate existence has faded somewhat, even though none of my opinions have changed. I was planning on making another attempt soon but I'm starting to doubt whether I'd be able to go through with it without that overpowering drive to die pushing me forward. If I quit my job, I can actually see myself tolerating another few months of existence (but no more).

But on the other hand, due to several coalescing factors, this month is really an ideal time for me to do it, and I still have everything prepped and ready to go from my last attempt, so it would be trivially easy to make another attempt. If I wait any longer, I'm going to have to start undoing some of my preparations (for example, I had cancelled all my subscriptions, frozen my credit card, cleared out my fridge, etc.), so I kind of have to decide soon. My greatest fear is missing my chance.

A secondary question, what does "feeling ready" mean to you personally?

I remember going through the same indecision, helplessness when I was 19 and in college.

As far as I see there are 2 components to SI
1) hope of a better future
2) fear of failure to ctb, ending up disabled

I am 42 now. I have bipolar, borderline, ptsd, Ocd and some other issues as well.. I have been in chronic pain from a cervical disc bulge for 4 years now. I lost my mom, last month. She was the only reason I was still living. Given what I've been through, compared to "being ready", it's more like "I'm done".

If one is young, then point no. 1 above may play a large role in SI.. as the mind will think of possibilities. With point no. 2, this is just down to doing the research, learn from documented cases, eliminate risk as much as possible and maximize chances of success. Once that is done, the final step would necessarily involve a leap of faith with every method.

If SI is strong at time of ctb it will cause a great deal of anxiety which a lot of people may find difficult to surmount. I'd say if one is still young, why not exhaust all possibilities, do what you want, live life.. At some juncture, the point of departure will come. Think of life like a game or maybe an amusement park.. Maybe get a passion - that's the best way to distract oneself and become oblivious to the passage of time - who knows things might work out and if they don't, at least one won't have to contend with SI too much when it's time.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

if one is still young, why not exhaust all possibilities, do what you want, live life.. At some juncture, the point of departure will come. Think of life like a game or maybe an amusement park..

Even if the game is lost in 40's (which I do not consider "old") it's not that easy even though if it's the most logic decision. At least that's how it is my case.

 

[xinino]

People here often talk about how you should only CTB once you feel "ready," but if you've done the calculation and concluded (over months/years/decades) that suicide is the best option for you, do you think it's possible to go through with it based on logic alone? Without necessarily feeling "ready"? Is it even feasible to overcome SI in such a scenario?

I ask because I recently had a window of time where I did feel genuinely ready to CTB, enough to make an (unsuccessful) attempt, but over the past week, for some reason, that pull towards death and the inability to tolerate existence has faded somewhat, even though none of my opinions have changed. I was planning on making another attempt soon but I'm starting to doubt whether I'd be able to go through with it without that overpowering drive to die pushing me forward. If I quit my job, I can actually see myself tolerating another few months of existence (but no more).

But on the other hand, due to several coalescing factors, this month is really an ideal time for me to do it, and I still have everything prepped and ready to go from my last attempt, so it would be trivially easy to make another attempt. If I wait any longer, I'm going to have to start undoing some of my preparations (for example, I had cancelled all my subscriptions, frozen my credit card, cleared out my fridge, etc.), so I kind of have to decide soon. My greatest fear is missing my chance.

A secondary question, what does "feeling ready" mean to you personally?

yeah, some people rationalize suicide based on political ideologies, philosophy, live situation eapecially in prison, or higher causes.

I don't feel ready, I don't based my suicide decision on feeling cause sometimes are irrational, I will die in specific age "30 or 40 where my body start to deteriorate" because I don't want to have pathatic elderly death.
That is in case I did not do anything crazy in the upcoming years.

 

[Endisclose]

Even if the game is lost in 40's (which I do not consider "old") it's not that easy even though if it's the most logic decision. At least that's how it is my case.

It will not be easy as long as there is something to live for.. but when there is nothing..to live for and one knows one's situation is only gonna get progressively worse, I'd say it gets a whole lot easier.

 

[Smaragdine]

I got really close to doing it today. Extremely close. I stopped because I was worried I would fail, which is a completely irrational fear since I'm using a method with a 99%+ success rate.

I'm new here. May I ask what that "99%+" method is?