Discussion Do you support the ideology of anti-natalism?

[miserableforever]

Yes and no. To each their own.

 

[ksp]

So much for keeping debates to a minimum...

^

in summary:

i don't hate people, and i don't hate kids, but i hate human condition and life as concept

human condition equals suffering (invariably), and life doesn't have a purpose

i wouldn't want to inflict constant suffering on a new consciousness, when life is extremely cruel and unforgiving. the main criteria for life is absolutely irrational, considering the outline of evolution (survival of the fittest at all costs). mindlessness gave birth to intelligence - that's what makes my rationality refuse my life and awareness - continuing this vicious circle of suffering is irrational (to me)

i don't want to convince anyone of my views: responsible people should do what the want
but i feel i was forced to accept life without my consent - it's an unwanted 'gift'

 

[Source Energy]

Yes.

It doesn't matter that some people are happy once they get here. They still contribute nothing to improve the experience of others. So they're just as useless and unnecessary as everyone else.

There is no correlation between happiness and usefulness.


We're much more enamored with individual happiness...

Who cares about usefulness to others? Your life is yours - and you enjoy it or not. You are here and you experience through your sixth senses - you can only be "useful" to yourself. I would not choose to be "useful" to others and stay here and suffer for them to be happy - who decided that anyone should be burdened with responsibility for the happiness of others?

Individual happiness ( or lack thereof ) is all that is. Each of us only can experience self. To procreate is to take a gamble - that soul will like it here, or will it will be hell for it.

 

[SamTam33]

Who cares about usefulness to others? Your life is yours - and you enjoy it or not. You are here and you experience through your sixth senses - you can only be "useful" to yourself. I would not choose to be "useful" to others and stay here and suffer for them to be happy - who decided that anyone should be burdened with responsibility for the happiness of others?

Individual happiness ( or lack thereof ) is all that is. Each of us only can experience self. To procreate is to take a gamble - that soul will like it here, or will it will be hell for it.

And this is why I support anti-natalism.

 

[Source Energy]

And this is why I support anti-natali

People voting "yes" do realize that anti-natalism is the end of human race right ?

Yes. And good riddance :)

I'm a misanthrope in addition to anti-natalist/ efilist. And that is because any innocent baby will either turn into a bully or a victim. Very few have the luck to navigate life without being seriously hurt by others, or pure at heart enough not to cause such harm.

Of course, that applies to every form of life. If all life goes extinct, alleluia.

 

[spiritedspirit]

I am an anti-natalist, but I don't really care enough to argue about it anymore. I used to hate people who brought kids into the world and I know I sound like an angry asshole for saying it, but that's just what I am. Fortunately I don't feel that hatred anymore, so I guess my views are more like this now:


It's probably a good thing to adopt anti-natalism as a philosophy and go with it, but we can't convince others that anti-natalism is correct if we turn judgemental about it. I'm always hoping that all the kids being born will be okay too, but I'm afraid for the ones that end up like us.



So much for keeping debates to a minimum...

You feel better now after mocking someone suicidal ?

 

[Lost in a Dream]

You feel better now after mocking someone suicidal ?

No, I don't. I shouldn't have mocked you and I'm sorry. I just thought it was a little amusing that the OP wanted debates kept to a minimum, but already it's escalated to the point of someone being called evil.

 

[leloyon]

As soon as I heard about antinatalism, it just clicked.
I am someone who has suffered just from birth. My parents both have mental disorders, which they not only passed onto me but also forced me into living in a household where everyone is mentally ill. My mother confirmed I was an accident, so why not just abort me?
As for the whole "human extinction" business, I support that too. That's kinda the end goal.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I would be happy when there are many antinatalists, for then my children and grandchildren have more resources and habitats.

 

[epic]

I would be happy when there are many antinatalists, for then my children and grandchildren have more resources and habitats.

Not sure if you are trolling or are serious lol .

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Not sure if you are trolling or are serious lol .

Serious, I have three children and up to now 5 grandchilderen, they have 8 billion competitors.

 

[Tobacco]

I'm an efilist. Life in general is a mistake.

Also people should look into negative utilitarianism. I don't care if more people love their lives. There's someone suffering out there and they should be helped/prevent their suffering.

 

[SamTam33]

I'm an efilist. Life in general is a mistake.

Also people should look into negative utilitarianism. I don't care if more people love their lives. There's someone suffering out there and they should be helped/prevent their suffering.

Agreed that it's more important to stop the suffering than it is to maintain the happiness.

I don't understand how a decent person can truly be happy knowing there are those who are suffering.

The two emotions can't exist simultaneously.

 

[Dot]

Hve nevr bn anti-natalst & nevr wll b

cn respct thse wh/ R tho

 

[screw]

The creation of new life doesn't solve any problems it doesn't first cause. For me, antinatalism is what seems to be most sound.

 

[soysoysoy]

Personally, I'm not all for or all against it. If your child has debilitating defects, then I believe it's cruel to bring them into a world that will shun them for being different for the majority of their life. However some people turn out completely fine, nothing wrong, just pretty okay. And it's true that you'll never know if your child will turn out to be depressed or ridden with other mental health issues, but I'm also pro-choice so in my opinion, that solves that issue. If only suicide was more accessible to people who really need it because life can be suffering for some people. At times, myself included.

 

[rushia]

Yes. Having children is child abuse.

 

[Walpurgisnacht]

100%
It's a clear morality to me, and I really don't know how people can't understand that there is at least a valid argument for it.
I can accept if they disagree, and I don't mind if other people have children or want children or whatever, I don't want to force my views on to anyone.

But what kinda weirds me out a bit is that I've had conversations with people that straight up just couldn't understand the moral argument for antinatalism at all, it just didn't compute to them, which I find really strange.

 

[Next-to-Nil]

I'm contextually anti-natalism. There are too many people on earth as it is, and not enough resources and jobs to go around as it is. If we could skip a couple generations the world might be less of a hell.

 

[stermc]

Yes. But I don't think it's fair to impose my opinions and ideologies to other people.

 

[Darkover]

rule one is doing anything you want but don't cause anyone any harm
and since life is always a harm there should be no life at all

 

[Joshi3651]

Been researching this subject recently (also how I found this site), and definitely agree with what's been said in this thread.

The human condition is just inherently doomed and bringing someone into a world without them having any say in anything should not just be accepted silently

 

[PurpleParadigm]

I do not support it or any other "isms" as they are by nature, fascistic.

What do you do about people who want children? Who gets to decide who is allowed to have them and who isn't? At which point do you know for a fact the world is good enough to procreate, if ever? Things like that. I won't go in depth as OP asked not to but hopefully this captures the gist of it.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

Been researching this subject recently (also how I found this site), and definitely agree with what's been said in this thread.

Welcome to SaSu. Hopefully you like it here.

 

[Unseenteardrop]

People voting "yes" do realize that anti-natalism is the end of human race right ?

No one is being killed by antinatalism. People can continue to live happy lives as they please. And since the people who would have been born don't exist, they won't care or even be aware that humanity is ending (or what humanity or anything even is). So who is being harmed?

Who will care if no one is around to care? We can enjoy what humanity has produced without subjecting others to suffering, and no one will feel as if they missed out because there is no one around to feel this way and people who don't exist don't have any desire to feel pleasure or experience humanity's achievements anyway.

Besides, humanity has caused irreparable harm to the environment, and survival requires the consumption of resources that will harm other organisms. Why should our survival be prioritized over the survival of other species?

Humanity will almost certainly go extinct anyway at some point in the future because of entropy and the unstable nature of the universe (all stars will die and the most likely end to the universe is the Big Freeze). Even before then, Earth will eventually be consumed by the Sun and there is no guarantee that our species will survive the aftermath, assuming we even make it to that point.

Additionally, far more people will die as a result of reproduction than the death of an antinatalist alone. Since death is practically inevitable, everyone who is born will die, meaning more births will eventually lead to more deaths compared to just a single death from the antinatalist.

This logic could also justify rape if all women except a small number of them became infertile, but none of them wanted to have children. Both involve violating a person's consent to continue the human race. By saying you agree that violating consent is moral if it means continuing humanity, you would have to also agree that rape in justified in this scenario.

Lastly, this is an appeal to consequences, which is an informal fallacy. Just because an outcome may be unwanted does not mean the arguments are wrong. Even if you believe extinction is inherently bad, this does not justify the undeniable truth that reproduction violates the child's consent to being born.

I do not support it or any other "isms" as they are by nature, fascistic.

What do you do about people who want children? Who gets to decide who is allowed to have them and who isn't? At which point do you know for a fact the world is good enough to procreate, if ever? Things like that. I won't go in depth as OP asked not to but hopefully this captures the gist of it.

But bringing a child into this world without their consent is not fascistic in your opinion? It's literally the biggest violation of one's freedom of choice and eternal peace there is

Yes. But I don't think it's fair to impose my opinions and ideologies to other people.

But you believe parents should be able to impose life on their children?

Yes. Having children is child abuse.

And a death sentence preceded by torture

 

[rabid_aspie_yokai]

Yes. Having children is child abuse.

Took the words out of my mouth. I wish I wasn't born or at least I was adopted.

 

[SuicidalSheep]

100%
It's a clear morality to me, and I really don't know how people can't understand that there is at least a valid argument for it.
I can accept if they disagree, and I don't mind if other people have children or want children or whatever, I don't want to force my views on to anyone.

But what kinda weirds me out a bit is that I've had conversations with people that straight up just couldn't understand the moral argument for antinatalism at all, it just didn't compute to them, which I find really strange.

They're just ignorant, selfish or fucking stupid

 

[Moonomyth]

Sure, I think Schopenhauer was basically correct on this point.

 

[Linda]

I prefer not to vote. I myself would have preferred not to have been born. But I can't generalize from that. And I'm always wary of -isms of any kind. They tend to be too rigid and dogmatic, and not a particularly good fit to the complexities of the real world.

 

[Little_Suzy]

If you don't have the right to be born, do you have the right to die?