Discussion Do you often wonder who you could potentially be, had it not been for your physical or mental disease?

[Cryptonite]

I do quite often.

I could be a physically and mentally healthy, secure and confident young man, pursuing sports and career dreams, in a healthy loving relationship. I would live to the benefit of myself and others. If I were born to better parents and doctors didn't misdiagnose me. But I guess many people on this forum could say the same. I even believe that many people here, had it not been for their struggles, would end up as leaders of their chosen fields. Doctors, entrepreneurs, politicians, scientists, teachers, valuable members of their community.

I also envy all the people around me who fulfill these characteristics. No physical disease, no mental disease, wonderful childhood, great genes. I know it's all about luck. Some people are randomly born in different bodies and environments. It is not our fault. It is not our parent's fault. They just transferred their personalities and physical health conditions, they received from their ancestors, to us and couldn't do a lot about it. Plus they were most likely peer pressured into having a child. It is just a lottery. But it still hurts.

It's all gone now. The best we can do at this point is to accept it and to gift ourselves with well-deserved relief.

 

[Sourdough]

I relate a lot man. I had sleep apnea that was severe as a child with all the symptoms. The doctor never suspected sleep apnea despite evidence (literally googling the symptoms now sleep apnea shows up lol). Just called it ADHD (which is a common misdiagnosis for kids with disordered sleep breathing). Having low oxygen during sleep messed with physical and mental development heavily, there is physical brain damage from the hypoxia and I wasn't treated until I was 14 meaning I had it from 4-14 years old.

 

[Cryptonite]

I relate a lot man. I had sleep apnea that was severe as a child with all the symptoms. The doctor never suspected sleep apnea despite evidence (literally googling the symptoms now sleep apnea shows up lol). Just called it ADHD (which is a common misdiagnosis for kids with disordered sleep breathing). Having low oxygen during sleep messed with physical and mental development heavily, there is physical brain damage from the hypoxia and I wasn't treated until I was 14 meaning I had it from 4-14 years old.

It's really so sad how broken medical systems are. Misdiagnosis is an everyday occurence, in all medical fields.

Doctors lack the knowledge, patience, dilligence, time and empathy to correctly diagnose patients. The only time you can hope for correct diagnosis and treatment is if you have a common disease with typical features. If you have an uncommon disease and/or atypical features, you're screwed.

It's really so terrible. If at least they informed us all that we shouldn't believe doctors and google it ourselves. But no – even today, everyone sees doctors as all-knowing, respectable beings.

My acquiantance explained it to me recently. He studies a medical school. He took a textbook and showed me how it works. They learn 1000 diseases and literally like 4 sentences about each of them. That's it, for the rest of their career. If they get specialized, they maybe learn 10 sentences. The truth is, I only felt knowledgeable about my own disease after I spent around 150 hours studying it. No one ever specializes like that, their knowledge remains superficial.

 

[lachrymost]

It's absolutely soul crushing to think about, but I can't help thinking about it. There was real hope for me for a short period.

No one is safe. The people with lives we envy could have that all taken from them in the blink of an eye. At any moment, they could learn the hard way the value of the right to die.

 

[Cryptonite]

It's absolutely soul crushing to think about, but I can't help thinking about it. There was real hope for me for a short period.

No one is safe. The people with lives we envy could have that all taken from them in the blink of an eye. At any moment, they could learn the hard way the value of the right to die.

Exactly, no one is safe. Sometimes it takes just a second. Car accident. Tripping over. One infection. Anything.

I think it is soul crushing but also healing in a long-term. I can say now that after I've honestly faced the fact that I will never be able to live valuable life again, I'm more prepared to CTB than ever.

 

[Hollowman]

I used to wonder that a lot but my brain's so fogged now I can't. Maybe that's a good thing idk.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Yes. I wonder what could've been had not been autistic. Unfortunately, I have a NT twin to give me an idea.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Absolutely.

The bitter truth about life is that hindsight is always 20/20.

We always learn our lessons too late.

I have mental health issues, but if I would have had the "wisdom" I have now many years ago, perhaps I wouldn't have made the mistakes that got me here today.

I could have potentially worked around my issues.

 

[Venus13]

I vaguely remember this feeling. It's probably been a decade since I did this. It's hard. It was one of the strangest forms of grief I had ever felt. I feel that tinge of envy sometimes, only for a couple particular losses though.

I actually have little ability to comprehend a future self. It's part of the reason I always end up in a suicide loop. I have no concept of me existing in any future and I'm starting to lose a feeling that I even exist now. I killed myself off psychologically years ago to lesson SI and slipped further down over the years.

 

[LittleNelson]

This is what I think about all the time - what I could have accomplished in life if the depression hadn't hit me in my teens. I always wonder what could have been and that just sinks me into a deep depression.

 

[Cryptonite]

Absolutely.

The bitter truth about life is that hindsight is always 20/20.

We always learn our lessons too late.

I have mental health issues, but if I would have had the "wisdom" I have now many years ago, perhaps I wouldn't have made the mistakes that got me here today.

I could have potentially worked around my issues.

To be honest, I think it was very difficult, if not impossible to work around your issues. You don't control your personality, parents give you that and they themselves don't control it, because they received it from their parents. and so on. Don't bash yourself about it unnecessarily.

But yes, hindsight is always 20/20. If only we knew everything... now I see doctors' misdiagnosis of my spinal disease as a giant mistake. But back then, it was maybe too hard to see it through my atypical features...

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Normal job with a normal life would've been fairly achievable had I not suffered depression Throughout my life… Puts a damper on everything…

 

[looseye]

I'm at a point in life right now where I theoretically could achieve all the things I can dream of. I'm still capable of putting serious dedication into things but there is no way this will last. Mental health has been trending downwards for years and I can feel my brain getting messed up more and more with every passing week. 2 years ago I could focus on a goal and work my ass off for 6 months straight to get there. Today I can't even hold a diet longer than 3 weeks. It's weird to think of the missed opportunities. Some of the people I grew up with are right there where I could have been at this point - money, family, happiness - and it hurts knowing that I'll fall behind even more as time progresses.

 

[universe]

Throughout my life, I have mourned everything and anything: the mourning of a normal family, the mourning of being a normal person, adapted to society, the mourning of my whole life. I've also mourned any improvements and changes in plans, I've made my BTC decision and I don't see how it could be any other way. I would never be made for this society, made to be a human. I believe it is my destiny to leave this Earth.

I imagine that if I had been made for life, if I had been comfortable with other humans, I would certainly have succeeded or I would have done well.
And on the other hand, I tell myself that even with that, I would still have been unhappy. Because there have been times in my life where I've had everything "materially", I'm not physically sick, I have a good physique. But nothing helps. Sometimes I wonder if I myself haven't voluntarily sabotaged my life for ctb, to stop suffering and because it's my destiny. I always wanted to die, from a very young age, so is it voluntary not to want to get out of it? This makes me feel even more guilty. I never considered life.

 

[Anon1337]

Yes. Tbh I wouldn't fit in with society regardless of my mental health. I would have achieved so much more though. Depression makes it so difficult to be successful. I fail at most things.

 

[Maudlin]

Are you familiar with the ancient story "The Hunchback of Notre-Dame"?

Quasimodo was plenty tough... and could ring the bell like nobody's business. To me, he seemed suited for little else but what he accomplished. But accomplish, he did. His reward? A taste of the corpse of the woman he was smitten with- and the comfortable release of a well-deserved death.

The Hunchback of Notre-Dame is just a story, so old and archaic you'll never know who the characters were based on, or even if they were figments of Victor Hugos' imagination. Regardless, people like Quasimodo have always existed.

The story of Quasimodo has touched countless hearts for 200 years, at least. I doubt much that I've done will have such longevity.

What will your story be, OP?

Personally, I'm pissed because I'm not capable anymore, as I once was. People who flocked to my strength proved themselves shallow, deceptive and dishonorable in my weakness. It took enormous effort to even learn where my own strengths lie. For Quasimodo, it seemed to come naturally.

Now, in my lack I have no bearing. I am adrift on a sea of anger and self pity. I am yet to decide how my story ends. I take comfort that it's my decision to make. I can fashion it into a monument of revenge on the most disreputable and disgusting, worthy of contempt... or I can just slip away from my pain, quietly.

It has always been my decision to make. Since the first time I looked in a mirror and experienced cognizance, I have always lived by my own consent. I will die by my own consent, as well.

What will your story be, OP?

Will you strike at the heart of the misguided lie of so-called "education" equating to so-called "authority" in the medical sciences? The lie that psychology is a science? Or, the quaint relic that is the Hippocratic Oath?

Will you just wait and see what happens? That's the hardest, easy way for me.

Spinal diseases Suck. I pray the pain rests lightly upon you, OP. It's nearly intolerable, for me. I wish for you the best in whatever you decide to do, or not do.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm grateful that I haven't been hugely impacted by either- although I guess I am depressed and probably have been most of my life. My heart breaks for everyone here suffering with debilitating illness.

Still, I expect I would have turned out more 'normal' without a lot of the things that happened in childhood.

I guess what puzzles me is- sometimes people overcome the most horrendous circumstances to live what (at least appear to be) 'happy' lives. Sometimes I wonder if it's a kind of equation- eg. Bad health, life circumstance vs family/ friends/ healthcare support system, inner fortitude. Whether- if it's a matter that some people who seem to have dreadful things happen to them- still have a few of those positive things to make it through.

 

[Lonerzepam]

I relate a lot man. I had sleep apnea that was severe as a child with all the symptoms. The doctor never suspected sleep apnea despite evidence (literally googling the symptoms now sleep apnea shows up lol). Just called it ADHD (which is a common misdiagnosis for kids with disordered sleep breathing). Having low oxygen during sleep messed with physical and mental development heavily, there is physical brain damage from the hypoxia and I wasn't treated until I was 14 meaning I had it from 4-14 years old.

I also can relate to this alot bro. I have pectus excavatum a condition where the chest sinks in and influences other organs like lungs, heart. I got it inherited from my dad whom i hate btw. I was always short of breath. Also when I was 15 I started smoking cigarretes with 18 weed I know it was one of the worst things I could possible do but I did anyway cuz addiction. So yeah heavy braindamage too. I got addicted to MDMA and Ketamine cuz it opens your air capacity and bronchianls and I could breath so good on it...just like normal people do I guess. Sad. I did the surgery for my condition which is one of the most painfull in the world but I had too cuz it affected my organs too much. Now I have a heavy neurological disorder cuz a psychiatrist prescribed me SSRIs in way too high dosages. Yeah I often wonder what could have been. But to be honest I came pretty far in live given my circumstances and had some fun. Mostly on drugs haha. But it just is what it is that's life what you gonna do? Ctb seems like a good option for me like for many of us here for different reasons. But yeah anyways you're not alone bro that's what I'm trying to say.

 

[cowie]

I'm grateful that I haven't been hugely impacted by either- although I guess I am depressed and probably have been most of my life. My heart breaks for everyone here suffering with debilitating illness.

Still, I expect I would have turned out more 'normal' without a lot of the things that happened in childhood.

I guess what puzzles me is- sometimes people overcome the most horrendous circumstances to live what (at least appear to be) 'happy' lives. Sometimes I wonder if it's a kind of equation- eg. Bad health, life circumstance vs family/ friends/ healthcare support system, inner fortitude. Whether- if it's a matter that some people who seem to have dreadful things happen to them- still have a few of those positive things to make it through.

There is something to this. If you have to overcome things as a child or when you are too young to really understand giving up or CTB as an option, you can develop a thick skin and a sense of momentum in life. It feels good to overcome things. You can always say "well I did that, why can't I do this?" and so you keep trying.
I felt very blessed until I developed depression, anxiety and obsessive thoughts. I had no idea what it was like to be normal, but I was okay being gay and a bit on the spectrum. I had a lot of interests and was okay at making friends until the depression set in.

 

[Forever Sleep]

There is something to this. If you have to overcome things as a child or when you are too young to really understand giving up or CTB as an option, you can develop a thick skin and a sense of momentum in life. It feels good to overcome things. You can always say "well I did that, why can't I do this?" and so you keep trying.
I felt very blessed until I developed depression, anxiety and obsessive thoughts. I had no idea what it was like to be normal, but I was okay being gay and a bit on the spectrum. I had a lot of interests and was okay at making friends until the depression set in.

I think you could be right in some cases. A friend of mine has also been suicidal since a young age. Now and again we talk about it and while she still thinks about CTB now, she feels like she has 'survived' worse- so kind of keeps on pushing through now.

Honestly though- it's had the reverse effect on me. I first considered it when I was 10 and the thoughts have never left me. I'm not so sure you are impervious to 'giving up' just because you are young. Youth doesn't always equate to optimism and resilience- especially if life has given you a battering early on. In fact, I'd say the opposite- we're extremely vulnerable to trauma when we are young and simply don't understand a lot of things. It's tragic but children do sometimes CTB.

Part of the reason I was so unhappy was because my Mum died when I was 3 and I was REALLY starting to grieve her then, plus I also lost her Mum (my Nana) at that age. The biggest reason was a step sibling though. I'm certain now that she was a narcissist. Honestly, my life felt like hell at that point.

While I think it's quite a common trait for 'motherless' children to be fiercely independent, I can't say any of it feels like it has made me 'stronger'. I certainly don't have a 'thick skin.' Quite the opposite in fact. All that family shit just made me retreat further and develop obsessions- art, then a few episodes of limerance (obsessive crushes) and now- art again. I'm VERY aware that I'm not 'normal.' Partly my fault because I haven't put the work in to 'fix' myself but- as the original post says- I do wonder how I would have turned out without all of that.

I'm sorry you have suffered/ are suffering with depression. It's so sad that life can just be ripped away from us with illness- both physical and mental.

I hope I didn't come across as aggressive in my response. I do think you could well be right. I think overcoming stuff CAN make you more resilient, although- that doesn't always counteract the damage that has taken place. Being 'resilient' can also involve distrusting people in future and cutting yourself off from them- for fear of being hurt further- which probably isn't 'healthy' to develop as a well adjusted person.

 

[cowie]

I think you could be right in some cases. A friend of mine has also been suicidal since a young age. Now and again we talk about it and while she still thinks about CTB now, she feels like she has 'survived' worse- so kind of keeps on pushing through now.

Honestly though- it's had the reverse effect on me. I first considered it when I was 10 and the thoughts have never left me. I'm not so sure you are impervious to 'giving up' just because you are young. Youth doesn't always equate to optimism and resilience- especially if life has given you a battering early on. In fact, I'd say the opposite- we're extremely vulnerable to trauma when we are young and simply don't understand a lot of things. It's tragic but children do sometimes CTB.

Part of the reason I was so unhappy was because my Mum died when I was 3 and I was REALLY starting to grieve her then, plus I also lost her Mum (my Nana) at that age. The biggest reason was a step sibling though. I'm certain now that she was a narcissist. Honestly, my life felt like hell at that point.

While I think it's quite a common trait for 'motherless' children to be fiercely independent, I can't say any of it feels like it has made me 'stronger'. I certainly don't have a 'thick skin.' Quite the opposite in fact. All that family shit just made me retreat further and develop obsessions- art, then a few episodes of limerance (obsessive crushes) and now- art again. I'm VERY aware that I'm not 'normal.' Partly my fault because I haven't put the work in to 'fix' myself but- as the original post says- I do wonder how I would have turned out without all of that.

I'm sorry you have suffered/ are suffering with depression. It's so sad that life can just be ripped away from us with illness- both physical and mental.

I hope I didn't come across as aggressive in my response. I do think you could well be right. I think overcoming stuff CAN make you more resilient, although- that doesn't always counteract the damage that has taken place. Being 'resilient' can also involve distrusting people in future and cutting yourself off from them- for fear of being hurt further- which probably isn't 'healthy' to develop as a well adjusted person.

I agree with you. Obviously having a tough childhood makes things a lot harder for most people throughout their life.

I was just trying to find an explanation for the minority of people who seem to thrive despite a tough upbringing.

 

[Cryptonite]

I agree with you. Obviously having a tough childhood makes things a lot harder for most people throughout their life.

I was just trying to find an explanation for the minority of people who seem to thrive despite a tough upbringing.

I wouldn't say they exactly thrive. They just have their personality distorted in a way that makes it possible for them to function (e. g. many famous narcissistic politicians or entrepreneurs around the world). However, they are not healthy individuals, and often they have terrible problems in one or more areas in life. For example, narcissists may thrive in business, but they never reach a loving relationship. And so on...

It is hard to escape tough childhood in any other way than CTB. Personally, after a long and intensive treatment, I got cured from a personality disorder. My life has improved dramatically, but still nowhere near anyone who had a good childhood. I could continue in the treatment and improve even more, but the problem is, the treatment can only have specific goals. You can practically change only specific aspects of your personality, not personality as a whole. And if you're screwed up in basically all areas of life, like work, relationships and everything else, it is very difficult to reach a complex change. Sadly (or luckily) this question doesn't bother me anymore, because I was diagnosed with a severe incurable physical disease, so efforts to improve my life have no meaning anyway.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree with you. Obviously having a tough childhood makes things a lot harder for most people throughout their life.

I was just trying to find an explanation for the minority of people who seem to thrive despite a tough upbringing.

Yeah- true. Some people just astonish me with their resilience against truly unimaginable things. Can't help but feel impressed by them. I don't think it's all delusional thinking/ masking either. I think some people do genuinely manage to turn their lives around despite terrible hardships. Still, can't say they 'inspire' me enough to try and do the same.

 

[jjwtn26]

I dont have a physical or mental disease per se but I have always been very shy, quiet, and anxious. Throughout middle school and high school I barely spoke a word. Even now that I'm an adult I rarely speak more than one or two sentences in an average day at work.

Sometimes I wonder how things would have been if I had normal social skills. There are a few things I have wanted to do over the years but simply have been unable. I guess it's no big deal though.

 

[Sad_Sack]

I wonder this all of the time. I suspect if I could see what my life would have been like it would crush me.

 

[akirat9]

@Cryptonite a living game developer creating jrpgs to touch the heart of players everywhere

 

[Escapee]

I do quite often.

I could be a physically and mentally healthy, secure and confident young man, pursuing sports and career dreams, in a healthy loving relationship. I would live to the benefit of myself and others. If I were born to better parents and doctors didn't misdiagnose me. But I guess many people on this forum could say the same. I even believe that many people here, had it not been for their struggles, would end up as leaders of their chosen fields. Doctors, entrepreneurs, politicians, scientists, teachers, valuable members of their community.

I also envy all the people around me who fulfill these characteristics. No physical disease, no mental disease, wonderful childhood, great genes. I know it's all about luck. Some people are randomly born in different bodies and environments. It is not our fault. It is not our parent's fault. They just transferred their personalities and physical health conditions, they received from their ancestors, to us and couldn't do a lot about it. Plus they were most likely peer pressured into having a child. It is just a lottery. But it still hurts.

It's all gone now. The best we can do at this point is to accept it and to gift ourselves with well-deserved relief.

i couldn't agree more

 

[vultureilse]

yeah. trauma throughout my childhood completely fucking messed up my brain chemistry and my overall development so i never got the chance of living like a normal person. i have absolutely no idea what kind of person i would be now if i didnt have to go through the things i went through because these events shaped me into who i am now. i wish i knew how its like to be normal and happy but its always been too late for me, i was doomed from the start

 

[Givenuponlife]

All the time, although I always wonder if I'm deluding myself.