Do you ever feel like a coward? Selfish?

[tasmaka]

Not saying this, truly asking. I've been called these a few times.

Do these statements hold true meaning?
Thoughts?

 

[dragonofenvy]

Cowardly? Yes. Too cowardly to do a lot of basic things in life, and too cowardly to try to further progress myself. Too cowardly to stand up for myself when I should, and instead I let the resentment build and build. Worst of all, too cowardly to actually face the truth about myself. Vague, I know. I don't have the energy to go into detail right now.

Selfish? Yes, but I don't see it as a bad thing. I used to be a people-pleaser. I was desperate to make people like me. People didn't like me, they liked using me. In a way, it was brave of me to start thinking about myself, and doing what I wanted, not caring about other people, and especially not about what people think about what I say. There are limits that need to be set with it though, and sometimes I wonder to myself how far over the line I've gone, or if there was a line I drew to begin with. People view selfishness as inherently bad, but forget that all people operate off of incentives. Sometimes, you need to allow yourself to be selfish. You may feel guilt about it, and it's natural, but over time you'll learn that it's OK to take certain actions that can help make things better for you.

 

[ShadowOfASelf]

People who call suicidal people "Cowards" are just trying to convince themselves that they're brave for breathing and doing natural automatic things your body does every day.

 

[tasmaka]

Cowardly? Yes. Too cowardly to do a lot of basic things in life, and too cowardly to try to further progress myself. Too cowardly to stand up for myself when I should, and instead I let the resentment build and build. Worst of all, too cowardly to actually face the truth about myself. Vague, I know. I don't have the energy to go into detail right now.

Selfish? Yes, but I don't see it as a bad thing. I used to be a people-pleaser. I was desperate to make people like me. People didn't like me, they liked using me. In a way, it was brave of me to start thinking about myself, and doing what I wanted, not caring about other people, and especially not about what people think about what I say. There are limits that need to be set with it though, and sometimes I wonder to myself how far over the line I've gone, or if there was a line I drew to begin with. People view selfishness as inherently bad, but forget that all people operate off of incentives. Sometimes, you need to allow yourself to be selfish. You may feel guilt about it, and it's natural, but over time you'll learn that it's OK to take certain actions that can help make things better for you.

I truthfully agree with your statements under selfish, Ive barely figured it out recently that sometimes to not get walked on its the only way.

 

[T22222222]

yeah i think im both cowardly and selfish. if i was any less selfish, id do the bare minimum required of me. right now i just literally scroll all day, then sleep. cowardly because im not ending this sick existence of mine even though i know thats the most optimal thing to do.

 

[decafcheeseburger]

I think I'm extremely selfish thinking about quitting while my parents are still here

 

[eggsausagerice]

People who call suicidal people "Cowards" are just trying to convince themselves that they're brave for breathing and doing natural automatic things your body does every day.

i hate people who think they're heroes or that they're saving people by calling the cops on their suicidal friends and just inadvertently making them pay a huge hospital bill. i called my friend on the phone while i was in the hospital and told him i would kill him when i got out lol. it's just not brave or admirable to keep existing and be labeled a coward for having autonomy. no one chooses to be alive, it's just the baseline state after being born.

 

[ShadowOfASelf]

i hate people who think they're heroes or that they're saving people by calling the cops on their suicidal friends and just inadvertently making them pay a huge hospital bill. i called my friend on the phone while i was in the hospital and told him i would kill him when i got out lol. it's just not brave or admirable to keep existing and be labeled a coward for having autonomy. no one chooses to be alive, it's just the baseline state after being born.

right? And I especially hate hypocrites like my leftist friends who are all ACAB and wouldn't call a cop to stop an actual crime but were glad cops were called on me. Also if you're calling the cops on your friends then they aren't going to trust you again or be able to talk openly to you about how they feel, and it makes life harder on them, it's not helping at all, you're just further isolating them.

 

[eggsausagerice]

leftist friends who are all ACAB and wouldn't call a cop to stop an actual crime but were glad cops were called on me

when i told him the cops put me in handcuffs he was like, "what? but you're 5'3". and i said yeah, the cops will still put you in handcuffs no matter what you do or say. and you will get put in the hospital for an unknown amount of time and not know how long you'll need to pay. after that i've always had a very strained relationship with him where i wondered if i should just hospitalize myself so that he doesn't have to deal with me, or so that he can pretend i'm getting better. i stopped talking to him a few days back because i'm still hung up on it/actively planning ctb. it doesn't get any easier after the hospitalization ends.

 

[Forever Sleep]

In terms of wanting to suicide or, in the way we are living? My family don't know about my ideation although, some of their ideas towards suicide are obviously along those lines.

Regarding how I've lived though- I've had comments now and then that refered to me being cowardly and selfish. And to be fair- they have been accurate sometimes.

Since leaning more towards antinatilism though, that tends to quash a lot of that. In my mind, I turn it on its head to say- How dare you expect these things of me! Effectively to serve you.

An imaginary rant here but, I'm supposedly cowardly when I didn't stand up for myself against a (suspected) narcissist- aged 10. They were the adult in that situation! Not only did they also not stand up to them- they put me in that situation in the first place- because it suited their needs. Who's the more cowardly and selfish there?

You don't put someone in danger and then call them cowardly because they don't know how to deal with it. And, selfish because they don't want to remain in danger- because it better suits you for them to remain there.

The same deal goes for life. You don't throw someone into a lion's den and then call them cowardly for wanting to escape and selfish because the spectacle of you running around shit scared is fun for everyone else.

I have actually been selfish in my life- when I focussed on my education and career to the exclusion of people. For some of them, that was pretty inexcusable. For others though- I think they followed their own needs initially at the expense of mine. So- they shouldn't really be surprised that I ended up doing the same. I also think in a way, it was a response to earlier trauma. So- while it wasn't great, it wasn't exactly malicious.

I think I've been both cowardly and selfish at times. I think it's tricky to live a whole life without sometimes being those things.

As for suicide though- I don't see life as being some great achievement to stay for. It was something that was imposed upon us. If we find in it enough to fight adversity to stay for then- great. If we don't though then- that's up to us, I believe. Sometimes I think it's almost foolish that I'm still alive. I suppose I feel like holding on for my last loved one to go first is the right thing to do. Following that though- I simply don't see what would be so meaningfully brave about me growing old, ill, penniless and alone. For what cause?

There again, I think suicide does inflict grief on the people we care about. Which is selfish. But then, it's also selfish to expect us to remain alive if life is mostly full of suffering. So- it's like an impossible equation really. It's like life itself creates selfish behaviour sometimes.

Ultimately though- I see birth as more of a selfish imposition than suicide. Birth creates this entire mess and obligation to begin with. Suicide is in effect simply opting out of the decision someone else made for us. Is that actually wrong?

What other contract in life are we forced to keep? Even the decisions we make for ourselves in life we are allowed to go back on usually. We can (mostly) divorce, resign from a job, abort a pregnancy. All decisions we (mostly) agreed to, to begin with. Yet- we're not allowed to have the choice on the most fundamental decision there is? Made by someone else- that we should live to begin with? That seems strange.

I just think ultimately that the labels of suicide being 'cowardly' and 'selfish' are used to emotionally shame and blackmail us into staying here. That's not to say we might not feel those things genuinely- according to our own feelings about life and the effect of suicide. To actually say that to someone though, I think is very cruel. It's like: So- you're feeling depressed enough to want to die? Now have a helping of shame and guilt on top.