do you believe in “fate” or that everything happens out of our control?

[020x]

while i don't believe that there is a god or afterlife or the day of judgement, i still think that the universe isn't growing by itself. there is always a source of power that has started somewhere and that power is in everything that exists, every single cell, including the billions of cells inside of us. the reason why i'm asking such a question is because i know most people that are suicidal are completely relying on themselves and if something doesn't work, they have no hope anymore because they don't believe that god got their backs so they make decisions on their own. i'm also that kind of a person. i don't rely on anyone or anything. but i still believe that everything that happens is out of our control, whether a person decides to live a healthy life, eat healthy, don't smoke or drink, exercise a lot, just to expect that they will live long and happy.. but that's never the case because people just die or get sick randomly. obviously if someone is eating junk and smokes or does drugs, drinks alcohol, their chances are a lot higher to fail their life compared to ones trying to improve and become strong. but we have zero control whether or not we will die or not or when, get a disease, mental illness, crisis. this leaves me with one understanding, there is fate (not something pre-written to you, but the natures act). that's why i don't believe in god. if he would exist and if he loved people, we would be living in a stable world where isn't constant wars, climate failure, millions of people used as slaves, beaten, tortured, raped, beheaded, bullied. And this happens mostly to innocent people that didn't even deserve it, so there is absolutely no justice in this world. everything happens randomly, we need to be prepared for anything that can make our life a hell to live with every day. people have different understanding of the word "fate". i don't think fate means something that was SUPPOSED to happen to you, but rather something that happens randomly and out of our control.

what do you think?/

 

[Bronzehawkattack]

It's funny, I'm the type of person who would say I don't believe in karma or any of that superstitious crap.

Yet I can't help but truly in the bottom of my heart believe that some X factor is why I'm still here right now, whether it be a higher being forcing me to stay here and suffer or simply "luck" in a deterministic sense, something is stopping me from the cure to my ails. It's not as though suicide with my preferred method isn't possible -- plenty of people have died via pre-built nitrogen hoods, or had people help them assemble nitrogen hoods, plenty of people have ingested N and died peacefully. Same thing with why I'm here in the first place -- plenty of people have found love through pure luck and chance.

So it would stand to reason that if I tried in all arenas of life that should matter, theoretically I SHOULD have come back successful in some way, right?
Even if by pure chance, but putting myself out there, doing the research to get what I want, I SHOULD have gotten lucky just ONCE.
If so many people who came before me got lucky, why wouldn't I?

And yet in every case I've failed. I don't have Nembutal, I don't have an inert gas setup, I don't have someone who loves me -- for the life of me I can't get lucky -- no surprise message from a stranger who sees my pain and wants to help me get N, no EM replacement is going to pop up to let me order an inert gas setup -- nothing.

So, despite not believing in superstition generally, I truly can't help but feel increasingly superstitious. The longer I'm here, the more this feeling grows. Like fate has it in store that I'm fucking stuck here unless I commit to a very unpleasant ctb method.

 

[Forever Sleep]

That's really thought provoking and I agree with a lot of it. It is curious the way we use the term 'fate' to describe two polar opposite states. Like- leave it to fate ie. chance. Or- that something is fated- predetermined- so- not chance at all.

Plus- yeah- I agree. Why would a caring God create a world and leave the rest to chance? Maybe he/ she/ it is an uncaring, careless God!

I don't know what I believe really. I find coincidences in life weird. Especially when they work in our favour. Plus, I guess the enormity of some decisions in life can feel kind of daunting. Sometimes I like it when 'fate' points us in a particular direction then. Maybe I'm just lazy though!

 

[gag_order]

This one is a tricky topic that reminds me of the Chaucer class I took. We've read Boethius' "On the Consolation of Philosophy" for that class and it really stuck with me since then. Boethius grapples with the problem of evil and suffering, which he sees as incompatible with the idea of a just and benevolent God. He also discusses the issue of free will and determinism, which are closely related to the concept of predestination.

I should note that he drew his conclusions based on the philosophers before him, such as Plato and Aristotle. We should mention them first.

Plato believed that the human soul was eternal and divine and that it had the capacity for rational thought and moral choice. He also recognized that there were forces beyond human control that could influence human behavior, such as fate or the will of the gods. He suggests that the universe is governed by a divine intelligence or "Demiurge," who creates the world according to a pre-established plan. However, he also allows for the possibility that humans have some degree of free will and can make choices within the limits of their circumstances.

Aristotle similarly recognized the importance of both free will and determinism in shaping human behavior. He believed that humans were capable of making rational choices based on their own desires and values, but also recognized that external factors such as upbringing and social norms could influence these choices. Aristotle also believed in the idea of a "prime mover (unmoved mover)," an ultimate cause of all motion in the universe, which could be seen as a form of predestination.

With all this information, Boethius ultimately rejects the idea of predestination, arguing that it undermines the notion of human agency and responsibility. He suggests that God, being outside of time, has knowledge of all future events but does not necessarily determine them. According to him, humans have the power to make choices and shape their own destinies and are responsible for their actions. He also suggests that our understanding of good and evil is limited by our human perspective and that what may appear to be evil at the moment can ultimately lead to the greater good.

He also argues that true happiness and well-being come not from external goods such as wealth, power, or fame, but from within oneself. He suggests that the human soul is capable of finding happiness and contentment even in the face of adversity, and that true wisdom lies in recognizing the transitory nature of material possessions and the importance of inner peace.

At the same time, Boethius recognizes the powerful impact that Fortune can have on human lives. He describes Fortune as a wheel that turns, sometimes bringing people up to great heights of success and happiness, and sometimes casting them down into poverty, sickness, or despair. He acknowledges the pain and suffering that can come with such reversals of fortune but also emphasizes the importance of maintaining a steadfast and virtuous attitude in the face of adversity.

Boethius acknowledges the important role of causality in shaping the natural world but also recognizes the limits of human understanding in fully comprehending the causes of things. He believes that while many events can be explained through cause and effect, there are also things that happen without a clear cause, such as chance events or fate. Boethius argues that divine intelligence governs all things and can be understood through reason and contemplation. Pursuing wisdom and virtue aligns one with this divine intelligence and deepens understanding of the relationship between causality and non-causality.

I neither agree nor disagree with these comments. As I said, this is a very tricky topic, and I can't bring myself to accept a definite answer. If there is an answer, we will never know. Just wanted to put this out here in case anyone wonders how the great men before us tackled the question.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just think that chance so cruelly determines everything in this existence, there is no deeper meaning or purpose as to why people suffer, it's just senseless cruelty all for no reason, I see existence itself as being such a horrific, unnecessary mistake, to me it's such a terrible burden existing in a world where chance determines everything and where one can potentially suffer to unlimited amounts all through no fault of their own.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

That's a good question and answering it is difficult. During my several years long decline I always had "chances" that could have had the possibility for a turnaround but all of them failed with the result bringing me further down. I don't know whether this is fate or there's "someone" controling this.

I don't think there is a god who is really interested what such stupid creatures like humans are doing on earth if they are such powerful to create sth so exact conditioned like the universe itself is.

 

[Namensjemand]

I find the animal kingdom provides all the answers to the fundamental questions of life. Zoomed in it is a chaotic mess without any rhyme and reason. Just sentient bio mass mindlessly driven to evolve and devolve. To grow an die. To increase or decrease in number, complexity of the organisms, sentience..
The human animal is on another level in its capabilities. In its potential for good and bad. But the same basic forces apply. It is as reasonable for me to believe in some pre-destined fat of mine as for a fly which only got to live a day until I squatched it.
A "divine fate" is an inherently delusional concept. What makes you suddenly so freaking importent? And if you are the king of the world - you are still as much a mere single element in a cosmic chain of millions of elements. Perhaps there is a rhyme and reason to the whole chain. After all.... here we are. Quite the achievement for what used to be a mere rock of molten lava. But its single elements? Any close and sober examination must IMO conclude that the universe does not care.

What makes sense is a fade due to life circumstances or mental phenomena. A classic example is what Carl Jung understood as fate: A mind unconscious of itself, and hence at the mercy of what it lacks awareness of.

 

[Namensjemand]

Supposedly there is some evidence for reincarnation. For instance a kid remembering being a WWII pilot and it all checked out and he knew stuff he shouldn't know. Seemed legit when I watched it on youtube but I can't vouch for it.

There is also some evidence for the power of the mind being able to become supernatural. Like someone healing his spinal court with meditation and stuff like that. But perhaps supernatural is the wrong word.

 

[020x]

Supposedly there is some evidence for reincarnation. For instance a kid remembering being a WWII pilot and it all checked out and he knew stuff he shouldn't know. Seemed legit when I watched it on youtube but I can't vouch for it.

There is also some evidence for the power of the mind being able to become supernatural. Like someone healing his spinal court with meditation and stuff like that. But perhaps supernatural is the wrong word.

not trying to sound arrogant but these kind of videos are just set ups. it's always the "i've seen a video on the internet" but when did a person stand in public with thousands or millions of people listening to them and explain something crazy and unbelievable that later turned out true. never. maybe a prediction (which is pure logical assumption) that doesn't prove something new but rather the possibility of one answer that was very unlikely to actually happen.

about reincarnation, i don't find it logical that when we die, we immediately become another consciousness living being. this would again, be only possible if there was a god that has pre-written our life, because for someone to get reincarnated, the timing has to be correct, otherwise if it's not, we just become nothingness, because our real existence has ended. i'd like to discuss more on this it if you want. i'm not saying you're wrong, but just sharing my view and understanding of it.

 

[Namensjemand]

@020x

This video was by an actual university scientist researching such cases. As I recall, anyhow. There is legit stuff on youtube. Though I suppose your assumption is understandable. Anyhow I did not check this guy and his work out further, so I can't vouch.

 

[shantyizlit]

I mean even plants grow towards sunlight though they don't have consciousness and atoms merge in predictable ways, what's to say the earth as a whole is not acting to achieve some purpose or even the universe as a whole?

 

[Namensjemand]

I mean even plants grow towards sunlight though they don't have consciousness and atoms merge in predictable ways, what's to say the earth as a whole is not acting to achieve some purpose or even the universe as a whole?

This is an interesting point. I find the existence of human consciousness as great evidence if not proof that there is a "purpose". Reincarnation / Nirvana being real would translate that purpose down to the level of the individual. About that I am not sure.

 

[020x]

I mean even plants grow towards sunlight though they don't have consciousness and atoms merge in predictable ways, what's to say the earth as a whole is not acting to achieve some purpose or even the universe as a whole?

I do believe the source of power is trying to achieve something, and it's not the universe, we haven't discovered what's further out there.

But it makes no sense for us as living beings that are literally like 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% part of the existence that are conscious about almost everything. Only makes us suffer mentally. This exploited existence is purely there without a purpose. because itself doesn't know why it exists, why it's conscious. just like us. we survive to understand. or just to enjoy good sides of it.