Discussion Do animals feel empathy? Do they have morals?

[Forever Sleep]

I think animals do display behaviour that suggests empathy. There have been reports of whales and dolphins saving each other and humans from drowning. They clearly must have understood the distress of another mammal needing to breath.

Animals often show acts of kindness and bravery to protect and save others- sometimes, not even their own kin.

Do you suppose they have moral sensibilities the way humans have though? Will they stop an innate behaviour because they recognise it to be cruel? Do omnivores regularly become herbivores in the wild? A vegan bear. I can't really imagine it. Do many animals care about sexual consent?

There have been stories of cats bringing their owners leaves. Was that because they realised themselves bringing home live prey to toy with wasn't kind or, was it the shocked response of the owners being presented with a live mouse? What do you think?

This isn't meaning to degrade animal intelligence or strength of emotion. I do however, tend to believe it's different. The more worrying trait being that those with very high intelligence- orcas, chimps etc. can sometimes display the most cruelty.

So- that's another question- at our natural core, are we cruel? Is it just things like morals, religion, the law holding us in check? Have we evolved to be nicer to one another maybe? We're a social species. Maybe we've developed more symbiotic genes to work together- rather than constantly compete/ fight. Although- we still do that of course.

 

[whywere]

I have been around animals, wild and domestic and animals have lots of natural intelligence and empathy. They survive in the wild and could we do the same?

Also, humans are greedy and self-centered, animals take what they need to live, and humans have to be greedy, and, not here ever, thank GOD for that, but are so self-centered and self-absorbed.

I wonder if cruel is impart because of a higher intelligence, yes it sounds backwards, but? All the decades that I have been here I have meet, dealt with and the like cruel, greedy, folks who are ALL about themselves and if I die so be it.

Then I have, especially here, met folks who are kind, caring ever so thoughtful and intelligent, that makes me smile, knowing that there are good folks in this world, shout out to everyone here for being a loving family, that I feel that we have a decent chance after all.

Walter

 

[Forever Sleep]

I have been around animals, wild and domestic and animals have lots of natural intelligence and empathy. They survive in the wild and could we do the same?

Also, humans are greedy and self-centered, animals take what they need to live, and humans have to be greedy, and, not here ever, thank GOD for that, but are so self-centered and self-absorbed.

I wonder if cruel is impart because of a higher intelligence, yes it sounds backwards, but? All the decades that I have been here I have meet, dealt with and the like cruel, greedy, folks who are ALL about themselves and if I die so be it.

Then I have, especially here, met folks who are kind, caring ever so thoughtful and intelligent, that makes me smile, knowing that there are good folks in this world, shout out to everyone here for being a loving family, that I feel that we have a decent chance after all.

Walter

Animals are incredible for surviving in the wild- I agree. They can have huge hearts too. Despite having terrible pasts, many are able to trust again and be very loving- in relation to pets.

I'm not sure animals only take what they need though. I'm not sure it's an altruistic equilibrium that keeps them balance and in check- rather than the harsh realities of nature. The food chain- predation. Limited resources. Humans are just better at squeezing everything they need out of what's around them I tend to think.

Given the chance though, I think animals would do the same. Invasive species will kill off native ones- given the chance. Cuckoos will con other birds into raising their children whilst killing/ sacrificing their own. With the rising sea temperatures, there are population explosions amongst some species- which is causing problems for the others. We initiated that of course but ultimately- I think most animals will take advantage of more favourable conditions- no matter how unsustainable a popolation explosion amongst their species is. The major difference of course is- humans are seemingly more aware of the damage we do and the danger we pose to every living thing here.

I think that's where things like morals come in- we learn that certain behaviours are unkind and unpleasant.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Dejected 55]

Without the ability to truly communicate across species, we can't really know. Animals clearly understand more than we typically give them credit. But, they can be trained to do things... and they learn things they do which gets them things they want. As humans, we tend to apply "humane" qualities to other animals when we think we recognize something in them. But there is really no way to know for sure.

I mean, we can't even tell for sure what motivates other people to do what they do... often we can't explain why we ourselves do what we do... so explaining what is in the mind of other animals is going to always be a stretch.

 

[Hvergelmir]

Mammal brains are mechanically very similar.
I think most mammals have the same kind of capabilities as humans - including some semblance of empathy, and subsequently morals (though morals are more of a cultural thing).

In line with Dejected's reasoning, we want to take great care to not anthropomorphize, when studying things scientifically.
At the same time we must describe things in terms we ourselves understand, if we want to relate to it. When I see "empathy" in another individual, I must self-project for the word to have meaning. It's not perfect, but I think it's as close as we'll reasonably get.
I don't think two separate individuals will ever experience the exact same emotion. Across species the difference is greater, but I still think the similarities are very much there.

Do omnivores regularly become herbivores in the wild?

Humans don't become herbivores in the wild. It's often not possible.
We do see cultures eating mostly plants and fish, where the environment favors that.

A vegan bear.

Pandas are mostly vegan.

Do many animals care about sexual consent?

I believe so, to an extent.
Sex doesn't seem to be such an emotionally loaded thing outside human culture. So, I'd like to see it more like general consent, rather than specifically sexual.
When one individual bothers another, it most often results in the offender backing off, without serious violence.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

In conversations like this, it's important to know the difference between compassion and empathy—and the three types of empathy themselves.

Anyone who has had a close pet knows that they can at least figure out when you are stressed. Whether that is through emotional osmosis (Affective Empathy) or general understanding of "stress" as a concept (Cognitive Empathy), I'm not sure. There are thankfully some interesting studies on empathy and compassion in rats.

 

[itsgone2]

Anyone who has had a close pet knows that they can at least figure out when you are stressed. Whether that is through emotional osmosis (Affective Empathy) or general understanding of "stress" as a concept (Cognitive Empathy), I'm not sure.

My cat is doing this right now. It's an interesting thread. So many species you can see examples of everything in the animal kingdom.
Could scavengers and predators afford to have compassion for prey? It's not their nature.
But what role does mental illness play in adults? I can't speak for everyone here but mine is self destructive.
Those capable of murder or rape would certainly seem to have the opposite of compassion. Are they capable of change?
Are we? I've been this way for so long. I've tried so many things. Even thought it had left me. But it never did. It never will.

 

[overmorrow]

I think they hate us a lot

 

[mjolnir]

Human morality is a social construct, and although some animal behaviors may be interpreted as "ethical" or "just," they do not possess morality in the human sense of the word.

 

[Hvergelmir]

Human morality is a social construct, and although some animal behaviors may be interpreted as "ethical" or "just," they do not possess morality in the human sense of the word.

I think morality largely is an effect of instincts, created by evolutionary pressure, and that social constructs in a sense are extensions of that.
I think the essence of a social construct is a mental model, replicated within a group, and any social species seem to have such.

As such, I think morality is a reasonable word to describe an animals sense of right and wrong - what social interactions causes it to feel content or distressed.