Discussion DMT, Hyperspace, machine elves...

[esse_est_percipi]

I was just wondering if anyone here has taken DMT, and if so what they experienced, and if it changed their perspective on existence/consciousness/life..

Even if you haven't taken DMT, I'm interested in reading about what you think of the whole thing.

 

[Sarahlynn]

I might be a mood killer her now, but anyways...

Haven't done DMT, but have done MDMA, LSD and ketamine. First time on ketamine, I was out in outer space, feeling ok with things I found difficult in normal life, feeling that "profound insight" that I can't reproduce and explain now. If I had been at all spiritually inclined I could have made a lot of "meaning" out of that trip.

To put it in a perspective, on a later trip I had just spent the entire weekend beforehand binge-playing Mario. The whole trip I was in a Mario-styled world. I find it hard to believe that is somewhat meaningful to any kind of afterlife.

I believe that when we are gone, we are gone. Our conciousness is just how our neurons are firing and connecting. The thought of an afterlife makes me feel ill, suicide is my solution to stop living, I don't want there to be anymore. Just let it end here, please.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

MDMA, LSD and ketamine

The thing I would say here is that these are all synthetic compounds, they are created in a lab, not 'natural'...

on a later trip I had just spent the entire weekend beforehand binge-playing Mario. The whole trip I was in a Mario-styled world.

this certainly suggests that whatever you were on was a synthetic hallucinogen, and that you really were just experiencing a subjective hallucination.

I believe that when we are gone, we are gone. Our conciousness is just how our neurons are firing and connecting.

I completely understand that point of view. Modern neuroscience doesn't yet have any data to suggest otherwise, but the exact nature of subjective conscious experience and how it is causally related the those neurons firing and connecting is still a mystery (hard problem of consciousness).

The thought of an afterlife makes me feel ill, suicide is my solution to stop living, I don't want there to be anymore. Just let it end here, please.

So sorry to hear how hard things are for you.

Would you feel differently if an afterlife was pleasant or without suffering? Certainly I don't see why there should be any kind of suffering in an afterlife if all suffering originates in being embodied with a brain, nervous system etc.

 

[Sarahlynn]

The thing I would say here is that these are all synthetic compounds, they are created in a lab, not 'natural'...

this certainly suggests that whatever you were on was a synthetic hallucinogen, and that you really were just experiencing a subjective hallucination.

I'm not going to claim I know a lot about DMT, but I have issues with the separation between something "natural" and something "chemical". We can easily make "natural" compounds that are the exact same in a lab, and all stuff "natural" doesen't equal "good". I might be reading intentions into your post that you did not intend now though, sorry if that is the case.

I completely understand that point of view. Modern neuroscience doesn't yet have any data to suggest otherwise, but the exact nature of subjective conscious experience and how it is causally related the those neurons firing and connecting is still a mystery (hard problem of consciousness).

That I agree with. But I find it hard to believe that the firing neurons, neuroplasticity, and the complexity of it all just turns into "something" that carries on when we are gone.

Am earthworm has firing neurons as well. Ours just happens to be arranged in a way that provides us consciousness as long as they are alive and firing.

So sorry to hear how hard things are for you.

Would you feel differently if an afterlife was pleasant or without suffering? Certainly I don't see why there should be any kind of suffering in an afterlife if all suffering originates in being embodied with a brain, nervous system etc.

Thanks. No. Living forever sounds horrid to me. I have had amazing, euphoric experiences, I still don't want to live, even if that was my default state. I don't think I have ever been "normally" happy though, might be I would have had a different opinion then. But I truly find solace in believing it all being over when we die.

And now a huge disclaimer; I am pretty drunk as well as mentally slow due to severe depression, and probably shouldn't try to participate in these kinds of debates at the moment. Sorry of I am not making any sense and are derailing your thread

 

[RedDEE]

I did a low dose of DMT once. I took only one hit. I was too afraid to "breakthrough".

But when I took a low dose, I saw aliens. With my eyes open, everything looked like it was made out of aliens holding hands. And when I closed my eyes, I saw a HUGE alien head that looked like a stereotypical alien head, like the Alienware alien head, with big eyes. It was 4D, and it rotated, and it talked to me telepathically. I was having personal issues with my ex-girlfriend. She had sent me an email saying she was over me. And the big alien head told me she wasn't over me. That gave me some comfort.

I'm just too afraid to breakthrough with DMT. I feel like I will never come back. I'm less afraid of CTB than I am breaking through on a DMT trip. I just don't trust it.

 

[dieornottodie]

i am sorry to be a downer too, but i never done dmt,

i have an extreme urge to do drugs, at least experiment

my problem is, i have multiple experiences in the dream world, and in the in between world, one between waking life and dreaming

for instance in a lucid dream i had a choice to go somewhere... and the thought of leaving in that dream to explore another realm was so scary i tried so hard to wake up, i panicked

so i have no idea what wld dmt do to me, and to be honest my experiences in the dream world were fucking scary and very complex and wld be long to write about some

so i am not sure i am ready for dmt or hallucinogenics or any chemical which will open some mind pathways and shit and make me live in another reality or the true reality

 

[esse_est_percipi]

but I have issues with the separation between something "natural" and something "chemical"

it's a good point. I guess there would need to be studies done on the phenomenology and exact effects of 'natural' vs 'man-made' substances.
But from what I've read, there does seem to be a marked difference in kind between experiences on DMT/psilocybin and experiences on MDMA/ LSD etc.

the complexity of it all just turns into "something" that carries on when we are gone.

I agree with you that it seems common sense and intuitive that consciousness ceases as living systems die...
But
there is a theorem in quantum physics called the no-hiding theorem that states that information is never lost at the quantum level.
Also, there is quantum entanglement (groups of particles which were once interacting or in proximity will always remain 'tied' to each other in the sense that their states cannot be described independently of each other -- so if one of two particles that were once entangled is sent to the other end of the universe, then if you can observe the state of one, you can immediately know that state of the other (which seems to violate the principle that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light...well, it seems that information can..)).

If you also accept something like a copenhagen interpretaion of quantum mechanics or a von-neumann-wigner 'consciousness collapse' interpretation (basically that conscious observation is needed to determine the states and properties of quantum systems), then it would all seem to imply that at the quantum level, the billions of neuronal connections (that created the conscious self at a higher level), will always be connected in some way, and that the information stored (i.e. memories) by that higher ego can never be ultimately 'lost', even after the brain no longer exists.

Of course this is just speculation and I may be talking nonsense, but I think things might not be as straightforward as born > consciousness > dies > that's it.forever. But it could be and you may be right.

probably shouldn't try to participate in these kinds of debates at the moment. Sorry of I am not making any sense and are derailing your thread

I liked what you had to say. Don't apologize. It all made perfect sense.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

bump

 

[RedDEE]

I believe DMT can take us to a state where we do not return, or return completely changed (enlightened). It may be a way to CTB, in a sense. I don't know. I'm just too scared of it.

I'm afraid that it will take me to a higher dimension I don't belong in. I have read DMT-Nexus.com and I have read that there are beings that don't like humans being in hyperspace.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I believe DMT can take us to a state where we do not return, or return completely changed (enlightened). It may be a way to CTB, in a sense. I don't know. I'm just too scared of it.

I'm afraid that it will take me to a higher dimension I don't belong in. I have read DMT-Nexus.com and I have read that there are beings that don't like humans being in hyperspace.

I don't think I would ever take it either.

Yes, I've read of hostile beings too. I don't think the so-called 'machine elves' are hostile as such, they just indifferent, 'amoral' tricksters. I remember reading somewhere that they're like children with 3000 IQs.

It is very strange that the human brain should produce or experience such a 4D alien world with bizarre alien creatures with the simple addition of dimethyltryptamine.

 

[RedDEE]

It is very strange that the human brain should produce or experience such a 4D alien world with bizarre alien creatures with the simple addition of dimethyltryptamine.

I find it to be the strangest thing possible. I have no idea why that is, either. I've heard some crazy-as-tits theories, like aliens sent out DMT-bombs in asteroids, and so they would crash into earth and spread DMT so people could gain the knowledge of aliens.. lol, bizarre ass shit.

Aliens are cool and all. But they're creepy as fuck, too.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

It's so weird that indigenous rainforest tribes were able to create ayahuasaca, considering how chemically complex it is and how long it takes to cook. Out of the 1000's of different plants, tree barks, leaves etc, they were able to synthesize it with very specific ingredients.
If course, could just be the result of a lot of trial and error over 100's of generations.

 

[checkouttime]

that ayahuasaca looks intense, i saw a chelsea handler show where they took it, 2 of them didnt look like they had a nice time :(

 

[Squiddy]

I wanna take it one day. All I've had is weed. I tried lsd once, but my meds counteracted the effects.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I wanna take it one day. All I've had is weed. I tried lsd once, but my meds counteracted the effects.

I think you probably need to be in a good headspace though. Bad mental state probably results in a bad trip.

 

[Squiddy]

I think you probably need to be in a good headspace though. Bad mental state probably results in a bad trip.

Yeah, though I plan to take it with some friends maybe next year

 

[checkouttime]

I think you probably need to be in a good headspace though. Bad mental state probably results in a bad trip.

Anytime you trip its best to be with people your comfortable with. i once did it with an ex in amsterdam though, was fine laughing our heads off then went under to fuck!!! luckily i had an antidote kit for shrooms lol

 

[the witch’s lament]

I have a lot of experience with DMT and other psychedelic and pyschoactive/tropic drugs and medicines. I have over 75+ breakthrough DMT experiences, I made some with my chem buddy in high school.

I learned many things. I learned our brains know more than they let us believe. I learned that mortality is real. and that aliens probably are too. I learned within the 'breakthrough' space that you are not always welcome. I learned that substances have a mind and plot of their own. I learned that it is magical. I have given it to so many people and saw their journey, and amid all the confusion or assault of visuality, there is always a deeper message to it all.

I've smoked a shit ton of DMT. greatest chemical ever discovered. I don't need to do it ever again and I recommend it for the most elderly/experienced individuals.

It's so weird that indigenous rainforest tribes were able to create ayahuasaca, considering how chemically complex it is and how long it takes to cook. Out of the 1000's of different plants, tree barks, leaves etc, they were able to synthesize it with very specific ingredients.
If course, could just be the result of a lot of trial and error over 100's of generations.

on paper ayahuasca may seem complex. but in reality it is a brew created from having made brews/teas in areas where the precursor grows naturally. there are ayahuasca shamans who still live today that do not know the chemical complexity of the brew and yet have the ingredients down pat. Edit: I wanted to use the term 'trial and error' as well. however, when it was first discovered, it was by chance. then passed down through teachings. the "perfection" of the recipe comes from combining various roots/vines/barks to create a different experience, not necessarily a "better" one.

 

[Throwawaysoul]

I tried it, I got really anxious about it. I fought it and I didn't breakthrough, so i gave the rest away. I've done too many psychedelics in my day and I don't think I can handle them anymore. They may have also contributed to my mental problems I face today. I can't take the chance of breaking my brain anymore than it is already.

I firmly believe that "machine elves, jesters and deities" are just a version of ourselves.

I'm also completely turned off by anything BroRogan shills ad nauseam.

The thing I would say here is that these are all synthetic compounds, they are created in a lab, not 'natural'...

Ayahuasaca is natural, DMT not so much. I did my own extraction and it involved naphtha and lye. I realize those chemicals aren't in the final product but still.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Ayahuasaca is natural, DMT not so much

I think dmt is a natural chemical, found throughout nature and even in trace amounts in the human brain.

"N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT or N,N-DMT) is a chemical substance that occurs in many plants and animals" - wikipedia

I firmly believe that "machine elves, jesters and deities" are just a version of ourselves.

Possibly, but how is it that people often claim that they were taught great truths by these entities, truths that they had no idea about before they met them?
They also seem so alien as to not to have anything even remotely to do with humanity. How is this so if they are just aspects of ourselves?

 

[Throwawaysoul]

I think dmt is a natural chemical, found throughout nature and even in trace amounts in the human brain.

"N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT or N,N-DMT) is a chemical substance that occurs in many plants and animals" - wikipedia

Possibly, but how is it that people often claim that they were taught great truths by these entities, truths that they had no idea about before they met them?
They also seem so alien as to not to have anything even remotely to do with humanity. How is this so if they are just aspects of ourselves?

I stand corrected :) It's the extraction process to isolate it that's not.

 

[the witch’s lament]

I think dmt is a natural chemical, found throughout nature and even in trace amounts in the human brain.

"N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT or N,N-DMT) is a chemical substance that occurs in many plants and animals" - wikipedia

Possibly, but how is it that people often claim that they were taught great truths by these entities, truths that they had no idea about before they met them?
They also seem so alien as to not to have anything even remotely to do with humanity. How is this so if they are just aspects of ourselves?

have you tried DMT?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

have you tried DMT?

no, that's why I started this thread, to learn more about it.
I've read lots of accounts elsewhere

I'm also completely turned off by anything BroRogan shills ad nauseam

same

 

[Throwawaysoul]

Possibly, but how is it that people often claim that they were taught great truths by these entities, truths that they had no idea about before they met them?
They also seem so alien as to not to have anything even remotely to do with humanity. How is this so if they are just aspects of ourselves?

Good point. Possibly the same way LSD and Shrooms teach people about themselves just manifested differently. Dr John Cunningham Lilly said ketamine taught him things also. Who knows. The whole thing is fascinating

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Good point. Possibly the same way LSD and Shrooms teach people about themselves just manifested differently. Dr John Cunningham Lilly said ketamine taught him things also. Who knows. The whole thing is fascinating

You may be right. It is all fascinating and a bit mysterious

 

[the witch’s lament]

I tried it, I got really anxious about it. I fought it and I didn't breakthrough, so i gave the rest away. I've done too many psychedelics in my day and I don't think I can handle them anymore. They may have also contributed to my mental problems I face today. I can't take the chance of breaking my brain anymore than it is already.

I firmly believe that "machine elves, jesters and deities" are just a version of ourselves.

I'm also completely turned off by anything BroRogan shills ad nauseam.



Ayahuasaca is natural, DMT not so much. I did my own extraction and it involved naphtha and lye. I realize those chemicals aren't in the final product but still.

this comprehension of the experience is actually the most scientifically agreed answer. the "entities" that you encounter occur from within your subconscious. you may not be aware of them, and they may not resemble anything you recognize but that's the point. the idea is DMT is a screwdriver to open a panel with a rare screw. spirituality is an aspect, and maybe a result of the experience. but it all occurs when certain receptors in your own brain make extensive contact with the molecule.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

the "entities" that you encounter occur from within your subconscious

But this sort of begs the question why they do reside in the subconscious. What is their function or purpose given that most people don't take dmt and therefore will never encounter them?
On my understanding, saying they are aspects of the self residing in the subconscious is just as mysterious as saying that they reside in some kind of hyperspace outside of this universe or something.
Why do they sometimes seem so indifferent, or even hostile, as sometimes reported?

 

[the witch’s lament]

What is their function or purpose given that most people don't take dmt and therefore will never encounter them?
On my understanding, saying they are aspects of the self residing in the subconscious is just as mysterious as saying that they reside in some kind of hyperspace outside of this universe or something.

this is a fair question. as far as we know, the subconscious does not have much a benefit as far as survival functions go. survival instincts and moral conscience are more explored concepts than "hyperspace" or "multi universal" perception. I think the reason making the distinction between what you experience as either hallucination or intervention is spirituality has been engrained in humanity since time itself. it's all about perspective.