Venting Disappointed in the former therapist's stance on CTB

[TAW122]

Check out this video by a former Mental Health Professional (MHP) or therapist, Daniel Mackler



I can see his arguments, and I do believe he is naively ignorant of the suffering of day to day life. His arguments usually center around idealistic optimism and pro-humanism, and always looking at the 'good' things in life. One point I will acknowledge that he did mention is near the beginning of the video (around 1:20) he understands that one less human being on Earth means less resources and he can see it being a positive (one point that an Efilist may agree with) but then later he countered by claiming that the negatives of suicide will outweigh even the small benefit from being free of suffering and helping out the planet, which is something that is very pro-lifey.

Ultimately, it boils down to suicide is bad because it hurts other people's feelings and egos and thus it is never ethical. Ugh, I can't believe someone especially one that is a former MHP would still hold such views like this!

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Leech]

I didn't watch the whole video, but it seems as though he just ignores the entire point of the book's argument in the first place. It takes an environmental stance, what does that have to do with other people's feelings? It seems entirely unrelated and that he doesn't have a proper rebuttal. Of course, he is a therapist, his job is to make people not want to kill themselves lol. As such, he takes the obvious and most popular approach which is appealing to people's guilt. Carbon footprint and someone's broken heart is not really something that can be compared in terms of impact. Seems like kind of a stupid argument overall BUT I get why he's making it. It is (was?) his job and this is how he's been trained to think.

 

[TAW122]

I didn't watch the whole video, but it seems as though he just ignores the entire point of the book's argument in the first place. It takes an environmental stance, what does that have to do with other people's feelings? It seems entirely unrelated and that he doesn't have a proper rebuttal. Of course, he is a therapist, his job is to make people not want to kill themselves lol. As such, he takes the obvious and most popular approach which is appealing to people's guilt. Carbon footprint and someone's broken heart is not really something that can be compared in terms of impact. Seems like kind of a stupid argument overall BUT I get why he's making it. It is (was?) his job and this is how he's been trained to think.

I would think that a former therapist would have abandoned that "way" of thinking, but I guess not..

And yes I do agree with you that he doesn't have a proper rebuttal as the argument he is trying to rebut is an environmental one and he addresses people's feelings instead.

 

[FuneralCry]

I don't really understand how some pro lifers think that everyones problems can be overcome, that is simply not realistic and doesn't reflect the reality of this life. I think that to me, there is no real reason as to why suicide is wrong. It does upset others but nobody asked to be alive in the first place so living isn't an obligation. We will all die eventually anyway and grief and loss are inevitable in life. There are no disadvantages to actually being dead, dying removes all problems and suffering so it could never be a bad thing if someone decides to ctb. As long as someone stays alive things could get much worse for them, and being dead removes that possibility. I just think that pro lifers would never be able to really understand unless they became suicidal themselves.

 

[Rational man]

I believe EGO is the central point of all.suffering and we are conditioned as children, the moulding of how we perceive and respond to life events. Does he mention assisted dying ?. I really believe that until you find yourself in the shoes of the sufferer, you are not REALLY understanding the pain.

 

[Zaljko]

Check out this video by a former Mental Health Professional (MHP) or therapist, Daniel Mackler


Ultimately, it boils down to suicide is bad because it hurts other people's feelings and egos and thus it is never ethical.

Isn't it interesting that therapists, who are supposed to be so knowledgeable of "maladaptive emotional states", exhibit such complete disregard for the emotional/physical suffering experienced by persons who go on to CTB. Presumably it's a defense mechanism on their part - if they knew how little they were able to do to actually help people, they would likely experience a great deal of distress. Thus instead of condemning their own pathetic (lack of) education and "skill set", they instead project those feelings outwards, onto the patient - ultimately blaming him or her for the choice to CTB. Of course they will never admit such, but in the end, they have to do something with those feelings, and as the video from this therapist shows, that profession in general is unwilling to truly acknowledge the suffering experienced by persons wishing to CTB - because if they did, they would then have to change their tune and actually support the patients right to self-determination. That, however, would jeopardize the standing of "mental health" workers and in turn could hurt not only the "professional" standing of mental health workers, but also potentially jeopardize reimbursement efforts (why would insurance companies pay for "treatments" that the profession itself has acknowledged are not effective?). Thus the cycle of denial, projection and ultimately patient blame continues.

TL:DR - gotta love it when mental health professionals say "he/she just didn't want to get better"