Discussion Destiny

[Carryline]

Is fate predetermined? Do you think that our destiny is predicted and everything just happened because it should happen? So in somebody committed suicide it was always meant to be?

 

[unluckysadness]

Very good question. A lot of mediums say that we have a "soul contract" when we come here on earth. Some pretent that suicide is written and other pretend we can break the soul contract because we also have free will.

 

[Carryline]

Very good question. A lot of mediums say that we have a "soul contract" when we come here on earth. Some pretent that suicide is written and other pretend we can break the soul contract because we also have free will.

I wish I could believe there is such a thing as a soul contract, but when I'm older I would never have chosen this life, so to be born... like for what? But I see what you mean and I like your answer... if there is such a thing as a soul contract, I don't remember signing anything, and I would like a refund

 

[finaldestination22]

No. Almost in every big decision that lead to failure in my life my gut instinct told me otherwise, even my logic but you know what told me yeah just do it fuck it whatever? My OCD/BPD or whatever it is, basically unregulated thoughts and emotions which lead me to this forum.

Sometimes life just happens yes many cases of healthy happy people going on whit their life and one day you just find out you have advanced cancer and few months left or you just randomly die or get in a bad accident. But all this being programmed and you are just a robot that follows instructions I don't think so. There are many small things that we often ignore which leads us to bigger things happening down the road.

 

[martyrdom]

I generally think that the belief in fate or destiny is one of two things: 1. a way to avoid responsibility for our actions 2. a way to rationalize bad things happening to us. So no I don't believe in any kind of fate or predetermination.

 

[Carryline]

No. Almost in every big decision that lead to failure in my life my gut instinct told me otherwise, even my logic but you know what told me yeah just do it fuck it whatever? My OCD/BPD or whatever it is, basically unregulated thoughts and emotions which lead me to this forum.

Sometimes life just happens yes many cases of healthy happy people going on whit their life and one day you just find out you have advanced cancer and few months left or you just randomly die or get in a bad accident. But all this being programmed and you are just a robot that follows instructions I don't think so. There are many small things that we often ignore which leads us to bigger things happening down the road.

I love this anwere... I also feel we are just robot.. we are always slaves to something, school, job, sociaty.... and how dare you wish to die life is so amazing and be greeatfull that you webe born

 

[amor.dor]

---I tried to write as clearly as possible without going into physics and philosophy in too much depth.----

I believe free will is an illusion. A comforting narrative, but a false one. Our experience of choice is real, yet it is the product of forces beyond our control. Because the world existed before we did, we would have to be an uncaused cause—which we are not.

First, consider the wisdom of the Delphic oracle: our destiny is to become who we truly are, and in doing so, we come to know the world. Until we know ourselves, we are ruled by the unconscious. Our actions, reactions, attractions, and aversions may feel like choices, but they are in fact the manifestation of a script we did not write. Our destiny is inscribed in the depths of the psyche, shaped by biology, archetypes, and the shadows we refuse to face. A person who acts without self-knowledge does not choose—they react. They are a puppet of their own unknown depths, acting without truly understanding why.

Second, the physical perspective: we always act within the field of possibility, never within absolute freedom. Classical physics relies on rigid determinism. Quantum physics introduces fundamental chance, but randomness is not freedom. At best, it is a cosmic dice game in which our brains place bets. Whether through deterministic causal chains or indeterminate probabilities, we do not choose everything. We can only choose based on what we are given—like playing cosmic poker, where you don't choose the cards, you can only decide how to play them. To choose outside the pool of possibilities existence offers, we would have to be gods.

Bringing the two together: normality,the bell curve of human experience,is to live in the pre-destiny of the unconscious. Most navigate life believing they are at the helm, while following underwater currents they have never seen. "Destiny," in this sense, is the repetition of patterns, the predictable collision with the same problems, enslavement to desires whose origins remain unknown.

Those who, through Herculean effort of self-knowledge, manage to bring light to these depths do not escape cosmic determinism. They simply see how things work and why they act as they do. They align with what Jung called the Self. This "becoming who one is" may be the true destiny,but one few achieve, for it demands dismantling the world's narrative. Such an individual becomes an outlier, a deviation from the norm. Their actions begin to emanate from a deeper, more unified source, yet they are still determined by who they are. They do not choose to be free; they become the fullest expression of their own possibility.

Thus, free will does not exist. At most, there is awareness of the determinism that constitutes us. The "choice" of the self-aware is no freer than that of the reactive person; it is simply more authentic, more aligned, less conflicted. The feeling of freedom grows as we unite the unconscious and the conscious—not because we escape the causal chain, but because we harmonize with it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I tend to lean on destiny when I want to be comforted or, feel lazy. The (probably naive) hope that everything will eventually work out in the end. Even if it's shit currently. I suppose it's that hope that something is looking after us and guiding us. Like you suggest though- that could mean that not only good things are fated. That maybe we are fated for disaster.

I had a weird personal experience that certainly threw me. I had a dream of a certain specific scenario weeks or months before the event actually happened. It was so inconsequencial too. Being at a school fate and being shown what two family members had bought from one of the stalls. That's pretty specific. I don't think it was deja vu. It definitely felt like something I had previously dreamt. So- that made me puzzled. Is time linear? Are things predestined?

Really though- I don't like predestination or even determination really for how little responsibility it leaves the person with. My take is more that- we are highly influenced by our past, our genes, our upbringing but- all the way along, we are making choices.

I don't like either destiny or determination for how it (assumably) removes any blame. We need to be blamed and take responsibility when we (all) screw up. It's how we learn to make better choices. I suppose my concern is maybe the idea of someone saying- 'I'm bad. Intrinsically and unavoidably bad. It was my destiny. None of it was my fault. So- why should I even try to change?' That just feels like an excuse to me.

I've screwed up and continue to in certain ways. I'm massively lazy at the moment. Which isn't actually helping me or anyone else. I don't think I was destined to bed rot though! I know it's a choice day to day. The easier choice. I'm effectively making it harder for myself- physically and mentally to make better choices as my fitness and health will inevitably deteriorate- and already have to some degree. I think life's more cause and effect- rather than destiny though. You can't be destined to win the lottery if you never buy any tickets.

 

[Groundhog_Day]

Determinism makes sense to me. We are just our genetics and environment unfolding. We had zero control over the body/mind we were born with, or the place in space and time we were born into. These account for 100% of our experience, as far as i can tell.

The feeling of duality (being a seperate self that has a body & mind, rather than there just being a body & mind with no extra 'you' that owns it), is an illusion created by us learning to talk to ourselves, and believing we are the voice in our heads, who has control outside of the deterministic universe we are a part of.

I experienced this through meditation. I had a 10 minute guided meditation on the Waking Up app where i clearly saw the next thought arise into awareness, and saw that 'i' didn't think the thought, it just arose by itself. Everything is arising by itself into wide open awareness.

Therefore, i believe everything is just the universe unfolding, and 'you' can't get it wrong, because the seperate 'you' is an illusion.

 

[Dejected 55]

We will never know. Free will and choice is impossible to prove. We are living in the fish bowl. It is impossible to observe ourselves and our existence with any true objectivity. We are biased, living in reality, to all our observations and conclusions.

IF free will exists, we couldn't prove it. It's impossible. How could you prove that you chose a thing because YOU chose it?

IF everything is fated... that kind of makes more sense in a way. All the atoms of everything were generated however they were generated and they exist... and collisions and mergings happen according to their momentums and those cascade to others and so forth... but if you could observe all this set into motion you would see what happened was always going to happen given the initial setup of the board and initial momentums setup. That collision that happened was always the only thing that could have happened.

Scale up to life... the life that exists is the only life that ever could have existed given the starting point and makeup of things... and because of the way that life was constructed, it could only ever do the things it did, that led to the next things, and so on... every time you think you make a choice, that was always going to happen and your "thought" about it was also always going to happen. You didn't invent or discover anything... that was the next step that was always coming. You are part of the grand machine and everything ticks along and triggers the next thing and the next thing... and you "think" fuck it, I'll stop playing... and you think you chose that... but you didn't... that was the atomic collisions that were always going to happen. You were always and only ever going to do what you did.

There's a logic to that, and it is infallible. Proving that is not what is happening... that free will and choice could actually exist... THAT is almost impossible, if not impossible... especially for us, living in the fishbowl.

 

[avalon_]

Yeah...I do believe in fate. But not everything that happens to us is pre-determined. There's also plenty of chaos and randomness in the world, and also the will of other people which can be imposed on us in an arbitrary way. If we try to give everything a meaning, the things that are truly meaningful will be lost on us.

 

[snow leopard]

I was maybe 12 years old playing in my room when thought came from nowhere "you will die from suicide" which scared the shit out of me, not gonna lie. I couldn't understand but now i do.

 

[finaldestination22]

I was maybe 12 years old playing in my room when thought came from nowhere "you will die from suicide" which scared the shit out of me, not gonna lie. I couldn't understand but now i do.

Glad to see other people get this. Last year I was randomly walking in my room and out of nowhere that voice just told me very short and clear: Your ex will call you in 2 days do not answer.

I immediately knew it was real and in the moment I thought well just block her from everywhere and that's it but then what if I am crazy and it's not real? I need to wait and see as soon as she calls I will not answer and block it. Well the 3rd day I get a message from her call me it's about "our" dog it's urgent. I knew not to do it but I was under severe depression so fast forward the dog needed a vet quick she did not have the money I went to see it got kinda back together and for the next 3 months my life became pure hell again, even got into a random bad car crash while I was driving to her place. Soon after I called it quits but felt cursed for a good period after, whatever I was trying to do my hole kept getting bigger.

Also the power of projection. I believe it is very real. Trump also talks a lot about this which I found very curious. When I was younger and not so depressed I used to dream and literally vision myself in some situations, they felt so real like I already did them. Years after of course whit hard work and dedication one by one it became real and more. Since I've been more depressed and BPD/OCD whatever I have who knows I can't project good things even when they happen, any good situation my brain just sees the bad side of it. And I keep losing no matter what, sure things becomes unsure last second, a good investment ideea I self sabotage myself out of it only for it later to be a very good investment while I missed it. It's pure hell just because my mind can't project good anymore. Just misery and death. I believe it's one of the reasons why mentally ill people feel punished all the time and that feeling that the whole world is against you.