I get the impression most of you are far left, although it's obviously a mix, and I'd say I'm moderately on the right.. I'm guessing most people here dislike Candace Owens for some reason, but I'm not even Christian, and I'd still say that if her overall viewpoint was more common then we'd have a much healthier society, with healthier relationships, and more functional families.
If anyone has the time and attention span to watch this 50 second clip I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this. Do you agree or disagree? Why or why not?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think it's always interesting to understand how other people think.
Why say everyone is entitled to their own opinion and then bash people who reply for being a "hive mind" and "simple little dopamine addicts" inside of a "digital echo chamber"?
If you came on here to spew hate and shit and the members of SaSu who disagree, just say that. Don't try to hide behind a mask of "everyone is entitled to their own opinion,
but..."
Jesus Christ, haha. I completely disagree with everything she says. As long as women are adults they can do whatever the fuck they like with themselves and they shouldn't be shamed for it.
The idea of "christian values" or "traditional family" or the idea that women need to have kids is sick to me. Let people live however they want to. I don't think there's anything wrong with sex work as long as sex workers get to keep their own profits (onlyFans, etc) and aren't being pressured or treated badly.
Sexualizing people who don't want to be sexualized and any sexualization of children is awful, obviously. But I do think it's funny when people think sexualization is one of the biggest problems our culture is facing right now. Then again, I find that Candace Owens has never come towards any kind of feminist thought in good faith, but that's just my personal opinion :')
For real. Sexualization is about a lack of consent.
Sexualization isn't inherently bad, but sexualization of people who haven't consented (random women) and people who can't consent (kids) is.
If sexualization in itself was bad even with consent, that would make sex wrong, and
@theslasher clearly believes it isn't but rather that it should remain within "the family structure" and not unmarried women or people who don't want to have children.
That makes sense. I'd agree to let people do what they want, but I just hate how the family structure in America is decaying. And it's hard to argue that a hyper sexual society with zero commitment would help improve that problem.
And you're right that there's a lot of problems in this world, but lot's of these problems originate from a broken family.
Sexulization of children and exploitation of sex workers is a problem that originated from broken families? Do tell, because I can't fathom how that could be related.
there are people who get various injuries, chronic pain, mental health issues, even cancer or other diseases from having to work jobs that are damaging their health, just so they can afford to have place to sleep and something to eat. so no, i don't think that women choosing (of course, being forced to do sex work is something entirely different) to do a certain type of work that makes them money (and obviously doesn't make them more unhappy than, let's say a monotonous office job makes a lot of people) is bad. being sexualized vs voluntarily "sexualizing" yourself (as an adult) is very different. and while the sex work industry can be very problematic, it's important to not hate the player, but hate the game.
also, i don't think women being able to be independent and not majorly having to suffer from being forcibly married to their abusive husbands, from who they cannot divorce if they don't want to lose all their financial support and don't want to suffer from societal judgement for the first time in centuries is an example of "decaying family structure".
For real. It's better for a woman to get married, have babies, and not have a career (women wanting to work is one of the things Candace was critiquing) than to decide for herself how to live her life.
So, they'd rather a woman be a sex slave to her abusive husband and not have the financial resources to leave than to have control over her own life and body and
choose to do things they don't approve of.
It's about control, and they want control over women. Candace is a figurehead.
I don't think the sex industry is a new invention! It's been around for as long as 'traditional family'. Easy target, there.
People shouldn't harp back to a golden age of family and society which never happened.
Exactly. OnlyFans isn't ruining traditional family values, it's just moving sex work online and preventing sex workers from being exploited and assaulted (because you can't be assaulted through a screen, unlike with strip clubs/prostitution/etc..
Sex work has always existed and it's not any more common now.
there are people who get various injuries, chronic pain, mental health issues, even cancer or other diseases from having to work jobs that are damaging their health, just so they can afford to have place to sleep and something to eat. so no, i don't think that women choosing (of course, being forced to do sex work is something entirely different) to do a certain type of work that makes them money (and obviously doesn't make them more unhappy than, let's say a monotonous office job makes a lot of people) is bad. being sexualized vs voluntarily "sexualizing" yourself (as an adult) is very different. and while the sex work industry can be very problematic, it's important to not hate the player, but hate the game.
also, i don't think women being able to be independent and not majorly having to suffer from being forcibly married to their abusive husbands, from who they cannot divorce if they don't want to lose all their financial support and don't want to suffer from societal judgement for the first time in centuries is an example of "decaying family structure".
I'm not talking about the people with legitimate disabilities (even then there's many other ways to make a living than selling your body), but I'm talking about
everyone else. Our society is just so sexual, it's in most pop songs / rap songs that kids hear and sing along to, which obviously isn't good. I think there's a time and place for everything but as a society we put so much focus on sex without procreation. Our human brains are so simple, we're all like little dopamine addicts who validate each other's behavior while mocking those who dare to question the status quo.
And right, of course no one is arguing that women should be forced to stay with abusive partners. But again, selling your body is
not your only option to make a living. You said how there's lots of judgement on divorced women, but I never disagreed with you on that. I'd argue there's lots of judgement on men and not only judgement but 99% of them will lose 70% of their money (not just 50% bc it goes both to her and the divorce lawyers) through divorce fees, alimony, child support, sometimes even the house and car, etc... Either way it's not ideal for either men
or women, but yeah society is far from perfect I think we can both agree on that.
We're dopamine addicts who mock y'all for "daring to question the status quo"?
Who's the one calling people who disagree "simple-brained dopamine addicts" in a "hive mind"? (hint: it's not us)
Yeah, I'm sure this 50 second clip will save western civilization. Also love how they cannot even go an entire minute without shitting on trans people. What clowns.
That's a crazy claim that I never made lol.
I just think it's nice to share different opinions for once inside of digital echo chambers such as this one.
And yeah, that last line at the end of the clip had me dead haha.. but that's not really the subject I was trying to talk about.
Yay, transphobia. So funny. Because hating on vulnerable minorities is just a hobby.
Oh, and more insults. How polite and I-just-want-to-share-my-opinions of you.
This is rage bait. You didn't come here to "understand how others think" and "share different opinions for once". You came here to start a fight in a place you admitted you were aware was heavily left-leaning.
I don't think the sex industry is a new invention! It's been around for as long as 'traditional family'. Easy target, there.
People shouldn't harp back to a golden age of family and society which never happened.
For sure, it's been around since forever ago. In multiple ways, life is much better than before and yeah I suppose there was never a golden age for families. Times used to be
much worse for women all over the world, and in some countries it's
stillvery bad. I suppose them getting paid for it is much better than the contrary. But it's like you said there never really was that golden age and there still isn't one today. It's just that in the west we've come full circle and things are really weird. At 21 years old, and most others my age, we don't see a reason to get married and risk losing everything when statistically the majority of marriages end in divorce :(
Not that 5th wave feminism (or whatever wave they're on now lol) is the
onlyfactor, but it's certainly a major factor.
Anyways, going back to what Mrs. Owens said, I just don't see how putting a price on your body makes you more empowered. Most people who indulge in sex work were often victims of sexual abuse as a child. It's not something you'd want young people to look up to. Giving people easy access to your body (whether you're a man or woman) is not something conducive to the betterment of humanity. That type of hedonistic thinking often results in young people having children before they are mentally mature enough or financially ready to do so. Which also leads to children being raised in poor conditions, and that does not generally lead to great outcomes. I've seen it happen a million times. And honestly if I happened to have a daughter one day, Mrs. Owens is definitely the type of woman I'd want her to look up to.
Is it our fault you can't get married or find someone to stay married to? It's almost as if when women have more support, they're less afraid of leaving abusive relationships and husbands who don't treat them well. I don't see any good thing about forcing someone to stay married so someone they want to divorce.
Us "liberals" don't call it "5th wave feminism". That's a conservative thing. It's just feminism; the same feminism it's always been, which is protecting all women and their choices to do as they want.
Plenty of people put prices on their bodies without being challenged. It's called physical labor, sports, et cetera.
It's only bad in your eyes when it's sexual because it's "sinful" outside of marriage. Y'all are fine when a women gets married to a man and gets sexualized, but women who choose not to marry are icky and gross if they choose to have sex.
Oh well, it's in off topic close enough lol. If an admin wants to move it there cool idgaf.
Read my other replies.. The hive mind that makes up Sanctioned Suicide is so predictable. Everyone thinks the exact same, it's just a massive echo chamber.
I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to do and say what they want.. but at the same time Mrs. Owens has every right to shame who and what she wants. If you really think that women selling their body for the cost of a McDonald's Happy Meal is somehow empowering, then we've definitely failed as a society. Anyone with that line of thinking should not have kids.
Yes, she has a constitutional right to talk as much as she wants, just as all of us have the same right to call her an idiotic bigot who is harming women's rights and fueling the opinions of the people who believe women shouldn't have a choice about what to do with their bodies and their lives.
I don't care about if you're trans or not, that wasn't the main point of the post that was like 3 seconds at the end. But if you wanna bring it up, he's got a point. Biological males competing at high levels against biological women is incredibly disrespectful towards all of the hard working women in these sports, you're right, it's disgusting.
Again, if encouraging women to sell their body for the same price is of a McDonalds Happy Meal is what you call respect.. you should really think about that.
If you don't understand the science, don't try to argue about it.
Trans women, "biological males", have regulations in sports. You can't just train with testosterone/etc. and then say "I want to play in the women's league" the day before the competition. There's a process you have to go through and medical steps that have to be taken.
Female hormones (estrogen/etc.) decrease muscle mass and prevent trans women from having an advantage. Tall trans women can't become shorter, true, but tall cis women exist and short trans women exist so sports aren't really fair in that department to begin with.
Just because the majority of trans women are taller doesn't mean being tall should exclude a trans women from playing with cis women, the same way tall cis women shouldn't be excluded either.
The entire forum is based on the ideal of people having a right to choose. Why would you be surprised when the majority of users don't agree with authoritarianism?
Exactly.
A forum that believes humans should have a right to choose everything about their life, including their death, supports women having the right to
choose to do sex work? Weird.
We can't even have a conversation about how to properly segregate sports based on science because of people like you. You don't understand biology, yet think you have all the answers. Your mind is made up; you don't want to hear nuance.
I am a chess player. I am a transgender woman. FIDE, the international chess organization, has ruled to not allowed trans women compete in women's events. It's bigotry, fueled by nonsense. Men are not biologically better at chess. But now I am not allowed to play women's tournaments rated by FIDE. And I'm sure you find me disgusting for wanting a safe space away from men to play chess.
That's the craziest part.
I tried to explain it to my transphobic family before and they were like "yeah, but that's to make women comfortable because they're not around men" and I tried to explain that a) the judges can still be men and the audience will have men, and b) I played chess against boys my whole childhood and never once was uncomfortable because of what genitals they had. (Being transphobic, they still didn't budge.)
Well, then why are you here? And are we really an echo chamber just because we disagree with you? You said it yourself, most members here lean left-wing, right. So why would we agree with the most simplistic and shallow right-wing talking points ever? Oh wow feminism bad, yikes. Maybe we just have common sense. Like with all due respect but Candace Owens is hardly an intellectual, okay. She says the same shit as any other right-wing political commentator, there is nothing respectable or revolutionary about the things she says. Like it's super easy to deconstruct her milktoast arguments about "feminism bad because Onlyfans". Oh no, women have full ownership over their own bodies, are in control of their sexuality and therefore exercise their individual autonomy to make money? Who cares, seriously.
And I don't get why you care about "family structure" either. I guess you're referring to the nuclear family? One man, one woman and 3 children? Let people have fun, we're not here to reproduce. Maybe you want to reproduce, all power to you buddy, I hope you'll have 15 children if that makes you happy, okay - and by the way that's what it means to be pro-choice so why aren't you pro-choice when it comes to our decisios? Maybe people don't want to have children or life-long marriage with the same person. We have one life, I could think of a billion things that are more fun than dedicating yourself to the same person your entire life and reproducing to keep the family structure intact? You know what I think when someone has a different lifestyle than me? "Cool, I hope they're happy", so why is it that right-wingers can't just accept when someone wants to live their only life on this planet on their own terms? It's really not rocket-science.
No, no, you're confused. He should have the "right" to marry a woman, prevent her from divorcing him, and not let her do any sort of sex work or OnlyFans before they're married because she'd be impure, but women shouldn't have the right to make their own choices about their bodies. Because that makes sense.
Oh, I don't find it funny at all. I can't imagine anything more pathetic than to ceaslessly bash on a defenseless minority that has no tamgible impact on society whatsoever while allowing the super-wealthy to trample on peiple as they please. Owens is well-known for being a shameless grifter, even by conservative standards: She herself is well set up economically speaking, making it easy for her to ignore (or outright deny) real issues like housing, healthcare and climate change and to rile up the masses with this petty culture-war rhetoric imstead -- all so she can be internet-famous and fill her hungry pockets.
For real. A cisgender man is making fun of trans people in a space that 1) is left leaning and 2) has trans people in it and
we're the "small-minded" "predictable" ones who "mock those who dare to question the status quo"?
It's insane.
