Dealing with guilt.

[Tiredman]

My dad has depression and I'm afraid of what he might do if I ctb. We have a bit of a strained relationship but I still would not want to be responsible for him hurting himself. If I don't ctb however I'm looking at years of painful and worsening health issues. I'm selfish for wanting to ctb but if I don't do it now I'll run out of money for peaceful methods.

 

[Caerula]

Would it be possible for him to not discover your death?

 

[millefeui]

If you want to believe it, more power to you, but there is nothing selfish about wanting to die. Suffering for no reason whatsoever for who knows how many years is nothing to be proud about. Selflessness doesn't exist, there is always a reason behind every action; We are always looking for something. If you choose to accept that suicide is selfish, then having to stay around for the sake of others is about as selfish. Then again, selfishness is a core aspect of human nature.

Anyways, if you kill yourself, you will not have to deal with any guilt. You will be dead.

I can relate to worrying about those who stay behind, but at the end of the day, you have to make a choice. Very likely someone will end up hurt, whether it is your or your father is the question here. Be aware that even if you stay around, your father still has depression, so it is not like his life will be full of sunshine (unless he finds a way out of it, which would be great, of course).

I guess the fact my father is a nobody in my life and my mother has hurt me so much turned out to not be that bad of a thing, since I feel absolutely no guilty about leaving them behind. Though, on the other hand, I can't bring myself to leave my dog. Well, at least dogs don't live that much, I suppose.

 

[Tiredman]

I'd have to ctb in a national park or something but even then I'll still be a missing person and probably considered dead after a while.

 

[Malice1]

You wont feel guilt anymore because you'll be dead. You wont even remember them because your memories will be gone even if you continue to persist somehow.

I know your concerned about your fathers well being though...i don't know what to tell you about that.

 

[Mari]

It is never your responsibility if he does what you mention. If you do decide to end it, my thought is that a rather long, in depth explanation on paper may help him know that it is not his fault and relieve him of certain guilty feelings. I know it isn't much, but i think it's better than nothing. Other wise, people do live for people - stay alive, stick around for one another. You can call that still based on human selfish motives, but the result can be a better one regardless. Helping others can be based on selfish motives (it makes the person feel better about them selves, for example), but that does not make it less of a deed in the world. I honor the fact that you consider these things, that seems like a healthy mind to me. I wish you the best.

 

[Tiredman]

Well I have 3 weeks to think about it I guess. By then I'll have my N and I'll have to make the hard decisions. I didn't mean to offend anyone when I said I was being selfish, sorry if it came across like that.

 

[louisvuitton]

This is definitely a very tough situation for you and your dad, I don't know what to say, but I hope you figure out what's right for you. You guys will see each other again at the end of

Well I have 3 weeks to think about it I guess. By then I'll have my N and I'll have to make the hard decisions. I didn't mean to offend anyone when I said I was being selfish, sorry if it came across like that.

No no no, you weren't offending anyone, not me at least, I think this forum is where we can speak freely, it's ok to feel being selfish, guilt or even regret. It's only human buddy! I wish you all the best, keep us posted no matter what your decision might be, I understand it is a tough situation for you and your dad, you are the only one who can decide, I just wish you weren't in such a rush, the anxiety and pressure you must have felt in this short 3 weeks must be intense, I was in that same situation before, but hey, at least N will be peaceful! That's good news!
Best of luck

L.V.

 

[Lisa]

My dad has depression and I'm afraid of what he might do if I ctb. We have a bit of a strained relationship but I still would not want to be responsible for him hurting himself. If I don't ctb however I'm looking at years of painful and worsening health issues. I'm selfish for wanting to ctb but if I don't do it now I'll run out of money for peaceful methods.

I'm no one to give advice.

I think this:

Follow love.

If you can pray please pray for guidance.

We can exit anytime.

No need to rush it if you have love here.

It's all there is

 

[Mari]

Well I have 3 weeks to think about it I guess. By then I'll have my N and I'll have to make the hard decisions. I didn't mean to offend anyone when I said I was being selfish, sorry if it came across like that.

Not at all offended, not in my case anyway.

 

[FullFat]

My dad has been depressed for years. Though he won't admit it, I believe very strongly that he contemplated suicide when he was a young man. My mom actually disclosed to me that she has thought of it too. Their marriage is shitty, and they should have divorced a long time ago, so they can't really comfort each other. My only hope is that they focus on their grandson, my older brother's kid, if I CTB. Even if they don't choose to follow me though, it's going to be rough for them.

I just wish I'd never been born. There were no good years where I wasn't a burden. My parents are blinded by their parental instinct. I've always been a mess. Now I'm a mess and a mooch.

So I'm guilty if I live and guilty if I kill myself. Unfortunately the emotional fallout of my suicide still seems to trump the emotional and financial costs of keeping me around. If I deteriorate to the point where the balance tips (such as developing an addiction), I may have an obligation to CTB.

 

[Tiredman]

Idk it just seems like I have an obligation to keep living after all my parents have done for me and I'm their only kid so it'd devastate them both. I could really care less about the rest of my family and friends though because they treat me like I dont exist unless they need money and most of my friends stopped talking to me after my health went out the window. I just hate that it feels like I have to live for my dad even if that means suffering for 20 years.

 

[FullFat]

Idk it just seems like I have an obligation to keep living after all my parents have done for me and I'm their only kid so it'd devastate them both. I could really care less about the rest of my family and friends though because they treat me like I dont exist unless they need money and most of my friends stopped talking to me after my health went out the window. I just hate that it feels like I have to live for my dad even if that means suffering for 20 years.

I get you. Life feels like a series of obligations and nothing more.

My Dad probably won't make it another 20 years, but my mom might. Some evil, selfish part of me hopes she dies earlier so I can kill myself in peace. I'm horrified by the thought and hate myself for thinking that. It's the guilt cherry on top of my guilt sundae .

 

[TheStartOfEnding]

Your guilt won't impact you once you're dead.

I personaly would only feel guilt if i had a child, since i would've chosen that responsibility (i think procreation is the most immoral crime anyway, but the moment you have a child, at least you should care for it) other than that, i didn't chose to be born, my parents are one of the reason my life sucks anyway (even if your parents are nice, if they gave you a good education/taught you how to endure difficulties/have hobbies/enjoy yourself/lead you by example etc, you mostly wouldn't be there) so why would i feel any guilt.

I think guilt is in most cases just an excuse used by people who are hesitating about suicide, they fear thinking of themselves as coward (i absolutely don't think they are), so they try to find a noble/higher excuse like "it's for my parents" "i'm heroically living for others", sorry but i don't buy it.

Piece of advice : Your caring about someone specifically because he share blood/genes with you or because you like him is in itself selfish, there is nothing noble or selfless in that. In reality what's truely noble/selfless is to care about all people the same way in proportion to their suffering, no matter their relationship to us/genes/country of origin, how close they are to us or not, because our suffering is all the same. But we absolutely don't feel guilt about not helping people far from our sight, we are mostly a selfish specy, so if you don't feel guilt about that, your guilt is selective/selfish, nothing noble about it, try to understand what i'm saying and you'll stop feeling guilt about hurting specific persons.

 

[FullFat]

Your guilt won't impact you once you're dead.

I personaly would only feel guilt if i had a child, since i would've chosen that responsibility (i think procreation is the most immoral crime anyway, but the moment you have a child, at least you should care for it) other than that, i didn't chose to be born, my parents are one of the reason my life sucks anyway (even if your parents are nice, if they gave you a good education/taught you how to endure difficulties/have hobbies/enjoy yourself/lead you by example etc, you mostly wouldn't be there) so why would i feel any guilt.

I think guilt is in most cases just an excuse used by people who are hesitating about suicide, they fear thinking of themselves as coward (i absolutely don't think they are), so they try to find a noble/higher excuse like "it's for my parents" "i'm heroically living for others", sorry but i don't buy it.

Piece of advice : Your caring about someone specifically because he share blood/genes with you or because you like him is in itself selfish, there is nothing noble or selfless in that. In reality what's truely noble/selfless is to care about all people the same way in proportion to their suffering, no matter their relationship to us/genes/country of origin, how close they are to us or not, because our suffering is all the same. But we absolutely don't feel guilt about not helping people far from our sight, we are mostly a selfish specy, so if you don't feel guilt about that, your guilt is selective/selfish, nothing noble about it, try to understand what i'm saying and you'll stop feeling guilt about hurting specific persons.

I agree that it's mostly an excuse, as I say in my own post, but I would argue that you are definitely more obligated to your family than strangers. A huge component of morality, at least for me and many other people, is reciprocity. It's hard to imagine how I owe anything to people I've never met. The more someone impacts your life for the better, the greater your obligation. Friends, families, coworkers, fellow citizens.... whatever relation to you, reciprocity still applies. This is why I believe loyalty isn't just based on mutual benefit but on morality. In this way, it would actually be wrong to be equally concerned about everyone. You don't owe everyone everything.

 

[TheStartOfEnding]

I agree that it's mostly an excuse, as I say in my own post, but I would argue that you are definitely more obligated to your family than strangers. A huge component of morality, at least for me and many other people, is reciprocity. It's hard to imagine how I owe anything to people I've never met. The more someone impacts your life for the better, the greater your obligation. Friends, families, coworkers, fellow citizens.... whatever relation to you, reciprocity still applies. This is why I believe loyalty isn't just based on mutual benefit but on morality. In this way, it would actually be wrong to be equally concerned about everyone. You don't owe everyone everything.

You are more obliged to your family than to strangers is an obvious component of consensus morality.

The thing is that i disagree with consensus morality.

Consensus morality is what causes a world full of homeless/poor people while we have enough to feed and house everybody.

Consensus morality is what leads to a world full of egoism, alienation, conflicts etc etc.

But yeah obviously according to consensus morality you hav e more obligation towards your parents than towards strangers.

If anyone felt obligated toward everybody, you'll have your reciprocity. It's quire circular because there is no reciprocity exactly for the reasons that nobody feels obligated toward anybody but close people.

 

[Tiredman]

I thank you all for the advice. In the end I know that my parents love me and wouldnt want me to keep suffering so I all I can do is hope that my note will help them realize that. I will write to my dad in the note specifically telling him not to blame himself and how much I appreciated the years we had together. Like you said I wont be here to see what he does but atleast I'll be more comfortable knowing that we ended on good terms.

 

[FullFat]

You are more obliged to your family than to strangers is an obvious component of consensus morality.

The thing is that i disagree with consensus morality.

Consensus morality is what causes a world full of homeless/poor people while we have enough to feed and house everybody.

Consensus morality is what leads to a world full of egoism, alienation, conflicts etc etc.

But yeah obviously according to consensus morality you hav e more obligation towards your parents than towards strangers.

If anyone felt obligated toward everybody, you'll have your reciprocity. It's quire circular because there is no reciprocity exactly for the reasons that nobody feels obligated toward anybody but close people.

I didn't say you have no obligation to strangers, just less. It's also funny that you say consensus because in my liberal friends circles, I'm the radical for my way of thinking. Most people outside of these groups agree with me, yes, but I don't think it's a bad thing. I explained my reasons for why I think the old school way of thinking is correct. I'm not just holding onto the consensus view for the sake of it.

I will admit that you are right about it contributing to the world's problems though. I don't really have an answer for this. I believe reciprocity and loyality are essential for society, but they have substantial drawbacks. They fail as universal laws in Kant's world, meaning that they break at systemic levels like you say, but there is a logic for why they're the moral good locally. Our two answers focus on different considerations - the greater good vs good in a single instance/person - that often clash.