DAE feel like your body's needs are not your own?

[262653]

I feel like the body I have commands me to do things. For example, when I feel hungry, I feel like the body is saying: "Fetch me something to eat, or I'll hurt you." And so I'm reluctantly complying with such demands because the alternative is to get hurt, and I don't want to get hurt.

Since it's something I rarely ever see being mentioned, I suspect it would seem weird from the perspective of other people. Depersonalization/detachment, some might say. I'd say, why would I identify with all my thoughts and feelings, treat them as mine and coming from me just because I happened to be the one experiencing them?

Any thoughts?

 

[Sprite_Geist]

Yes it can sometimes feel that way. We are a collection of molecular machinery that is responding to whatever genetic instructions that it has been given.

 

[NodusTollens]

I can honestly say, I understand what you're talking about.

Ever since I was younger, I've spoken to inanimate objects as if they were sentient. Usually it was just me thinking out loud & needing to feel like I was saying it to someone. Over the last few years, however, since developing chronic pain issues, I talk to my body. Random shooting pain, "Really? Now?!" Stomach growling, "Oh no you don't, you're not forcing me to get up."

It helps me feel better about the way things have shifted & broken down. I've already felt like I was damaged goods, so the injury compounded everything to make me feel worthless. Speaking & separating my thoughts from the automated thoughts & pains of my body helped me mentally adapt to my situation.

 

[WornOutLife]

I can relate.
It feels as eternal cause and effect cycle .
I don't even know myself sometimes because I'm bipolar and the things I do when i'm up are soooo different from the ones I do when I'm up. Just like two different people living inside of me.

 

[262653]

Yes it can sometimes feel that way. We are a collection of molecular machinery that is responding to whatever genetic instructions that it has been given.

Yes, big complex machine. Like a country comprised of millions of people, each doing their own thing and bouncing off from each other. A country as a whole choosing a particular president doesn't necessarily reflect the choice of all concerned individual parts. Just like some other group of people can have conflict between its members. In a similar manner, human bodies are not devoid of internal conflicts, with autoimmune diseases being a good example.

@UnaccompaniedJourney I think it's not uncommon to speak to inanimate objects shortly after an unexpected, unpleasant collision with them.

One could say that "the one who is forced to get up" is not any more or less you than "the one who experiences or gives rise to the growling in the stomach".

I find it (fleetingly) interesting that there is this divison. This is me, this is not me. It feels completely made up, like drawing borders and saying "this is country X, and that land beyond the borders isn't country X", but it does seem to serve some purpose, the sense of self. It allows to predict future and past events using patterns and patterns of patterns (logic?), and see how "self" fits the picture.

Then there are emotions, and some emotions (like anger, or admiration) seem to require an object.
Feeling an unpleasant emotion (like anger) --> the source of this emotion is identified as "internal", like "own" body parts or thought processes --> the appropriate measures might be taken, like hurting the source.
Some people classify self-harm as self-destructive behavior, but what if the person who harms own body parts doesn't identify those parts as parts of self?

If a given person has twelve personalities, of which eleven agree to a sex but one disagrees, would that count as consensual sex?

 

[Wrennie]

I feel like the body I have commands me to do things. For example, when I feel hungry, I feel like the body is saying: "Fetch me something to eat, or I'll hurt you." And so I'm reluctantly complying with such demands because the alternative is to get hurt, and I don't want to get hurt.

Since it's something I rarely ever see being mentioned, I suspect it would seem weird from the perspective of other people. Depersonalization/detachment, some might say. I'd say, why would I identify with all my thoughts and feelings, treat them as mine and coming from me just because I happened to be the one experiencing them?

Any thoughts?

As someone who's presently attempting to starve myself, I totally relate to the hunger bit lol. It's so irritating to have your body go against your mind and what you want for yourself, but because it has the advantage of pestering you with unwanted physical sensations it usually emerges the victor.

 

[NodusTollens]

@UnaccompaniedJourney I think it's not uncommon to speak to inanimate objects shortly after an unexpected, unpleasant collision with them.

One could say that "the one who is forced to get up" is not any more or less you than "the one who experiences or gives rise to the growling in the stomach".

I find it (fleetingly) interesting that there is this divison. This is me, this is not me. It feels completely made up, like drawing borders and saying "this is country X, and that land beyond the borders isn't country X", but it does seem to serve some purpose, the sense of self. It allows to predict future and past events using patterns and patterns of patterns (logic?), and see how "self" fits the picture.

Then there are emotions, and some emotions (like anger, or admiration) seem to require an object.
Feeling an unpleasant emotion (like anger) --> the source of this emotion is identified as "internal", like "own" body parts or thought processes --> the appropriate measures might be taken, like hurting the source.
Some people classify self-harm as self-destructive behavior, but what if the person who harms own body parts doesn't identify those parts as parts of self?

If a given person has twelve personalities, of which eleven agree to a sex but one disagrees, would that count as consensual sex?

I hear what you're saying, & while you're correct, for myself it's not limited to bumping into objects.

I deal with chronic pain, so moving in & of itself is challenging & nauseatingly painful, in addition to eating, so I started mentally separating myself (my thoughts & perceptions) from the desires of my body, to what I believed I would need/could physically do in the given situation, in order to cope with impulsive feelings towards CTB. A pseudo mind is willing, body is weak.

I don't quite follow your meaning regarding things being made up. It's not fake & separating oneself from our bodies mentally can help us to endure greats pains (thinking of a Buddhist monk who set himself on fire & didn't move, 1963).

 

[262653]

@UnaccompaniedJourney About collision. I said that in jest, and I didn't mean to imply that it's what happens in your case. I think I'll just put a smile or emoji next time to make up for facial expressions not being displayed on this forum.

I didn't know a better word to pick when I said "made-up". I think a word closely related to the meaning I tried to express would be "subjective". Some might identify with the body they have while others might not. That sort of thing.

 

[Intotheflames]

I hear what you're saying, & while you're correct, for myself it's not limited to bumping into objects.

I deal with chronic pain, so moving in & of itself is challenging & nauseatingly painful, in addition to eating, so I started mentally separating myself (my thoughts & perceptions) from the desires of my body, to what I believed I would need/could physically do in the given situation, in order to cope with impulsive feelings towards CTB. A pseudo mind is willing, body is weak.

I don't quite follow your meaning regarding things being made up. It's not fake & separating oneself from our bodies mentally can help us to endure greats pains (thinking of a Buddhist monk who set himself on fire & didn't move, 1963).

Just wanna share an anecdote bases on the mind and body/monk you mentioned. Years ago, I got sick, had a high fever, my body shaked non stop, couldn't breathe, sleep or eat, if I drank water I vomited. Now bear in mind that I was always a bit suicidal. There came a moment, I just gave up. I literally talked to the disease within me that I don't care anymore, torture me all you want but know this I have nothing to lose, if I die you die with me. And I meant it when I said that. Within the next few minutes, all symptoms were gone. And I wasn't once sick for the following years, and even eventually I got sick, it was never serious.

 

[NodusTollens]

@UnaccompaniedJourney About collision. I said that in jest, and I didn't mean to imply that it's what happens in your case. I think I'll just put a smile or emoji next time to make up for facial expressions not being displayed on this forum.

I didn't know a better word to pick when I said "made-up". I think a word closely related to the meaning I tried to express would be "subjective". Some might identify with the body they have while others might not. That sort of thing.

Oh, yes- that might be help. Sometimes sarcasm & certain elements of dry humour are lost on me.

Oh, I see. Well the brain is a fascinating aspect of human biology; the way it seeks to protect itself & host (body, depending on how you want to look at it). Whether it's altering perspective to relieve aspects of suffering or repressing memories, to reduce trigger from suffering.

During moments like this, this quote floats into mind:

"There's no way not to suffer. But you try all kinds of ways to keep from drowning in it." - James Baldwin

Just wanna share an anecdote bases on the mind and body/monk you mentioned. Years ago, I got sick, had a high fever, my body shaked non stop, couldn't breathe, sleep or eat, if I drank water I vomited. Now bear in mind that I was always a bit suicidal. There came a moment, I just gave up. I literally talked to the disease within me that I don't care anymore, torture me all you want but know this I have nothing to lose, if I die you die with me. And I meant it when I said that. Within the next few minutes, all symptoms were gone. And I wasn't once sick for the following years, and even eventually I got sick, it was never serious.

Wow, this is quite the tale. Glad to hear that cleared up, as it sounded unbearable.

The human body is just a fascinating as it is frustrating. Had you ever experienced anything like this before?

 

[fent_dnm27]

Ya this is super common among people with (C)PTSD. feeling disembodied is the term, i believe....

"somatic re-experiencing" or basically doing stuff like Yoga and meditation, which brings you more into the present focus, is supposed to help a lot with this.

 

[Deleted member 22624]

I feel like the body I have commands me to do things. For example, when I feel hungry, I feel like the body is saying: "Fetch me something to eat, or I'll hurt you." And so I'm reluctantly complying with such demands because the alternative is to get hurt, and I don't want to get hurt.

Since it's something I rarely ever see being mentioned, I suspect it would seem weird from the perspective of other people. Depersonalization/detachment, some might say. I'd say, why would I identify with all my thoughts and feelings, treat them as mine and coming from me just because I happened to be the one experiencing them?

Any thoughts?

Yes!!! And it makes me so angry!! It's been forced on me without my consent and I'm compelled to find things or people to blame. I also neglect my needs as if it should be someone else's problem. I reject reality, and expect things to just work out, almost. I'm sort of talking crap but there's a real truth to it, it's hard to explain

 

[262653]

Ya this is super common among people with (C)PTSD. feeling disembodied is the term, i believe....

"somatic re-experiencing" or basically doing stuff like Yoga and meditation, which brings you more into the present focus, is supposed to help a lot with this.

I do feel/experience the body that I have, if that's what you are talking about. I feel the strain of gravity, and the body pushing against it to avoid collapsing onto the floor. The occasional back pain. The tension in certain parts of the body when experiencing emotions.

It's just the body just functions by itself. Like a country where every citizen is doing its job. The unity seems fictional, though there certainly are uses for being able to distinguish one country from another.

I googled about that feeling you mentioned. Interesting choice of words. Depersonalization, derealisation. Mental illness, disorder. I don't feel like there is a disorder that causes me not liking what I experience. I do not like to experience weakness or pain. Feeling these things is completely normal, though my outlook on pain may be abnormal.

 

[TooConscious]

I feel like the body I have commands me to do things. For example, when I feel hungry, I feel like the body is saying: "Fetch me something to eat, or I'll hurt you." And so I'm reluctantly complying with such demands because the alternative is to get hurt, and I don't want to get hurt.

Since it's something I rarely ever see being mentioned, I suspect it would seem weird from the perspective of other people. Depersonalization/detachment, some might say. I'd say, why would I identify with all my thoughts and feelings, treat them as mine and coming from me just because I happened to be the one experiencing them?

Any thoughts?

Exactly let's be honest all this shitty life has to offer is sexual pleasure to spread the virus of ourselves further. In my case I'm infertile due to a chromosome abnormality have testicular atrophy still need to masturvate with my limp penis every few days that's how engraved into our being it is.

 

[Deleted member 22624]

Am I the only one continually witholding angry undirected outbursts about just how shit life is?
Edit: whoops, another one slipped

 

[TooConscious]

Am I the only one continually witholding angry undirected outbursts about just how shit life is?
Edit: whoops, another one slipped

Clearly not. As above, so below. Lol

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

I feel like the body I have commands me to do things. For example, when I feel hungry, I feel like the body is saying: "Fetch me something to eat, or I'll hurt you." And so I'm reluctantly complying with such demands because the alternative is to get hurt, and I don't want to get hurt.

I agree with your point of view. I compare it to babysitting a difficult child.

With no other choice, you begrudgingly take up the (unpaid) task fostering a troublesome child. The child demands constant attention and pesters you every now and then to be fed. The more you procrastinate, the more incessant her crying becomes.

Throw in chronic pain and the difficulty gets turned up to eleven. The child throws screaming tantrums, calls you names, hits, bites and throws things at you. All the while insisting that you shower her with gifts and treat her like a princess. Not wanting to upset the child's parents, you give in at first but as her demands become more and more unreasonable, you start to lose it. You call for help, but no one answers. You want to quit your job, but you can't – the child's parents are nowhere to be found. Burned out and at your wit's end, you are hellbent in doing anything to get her off your back, her parents' wrath pushed to the back of your mind.

Treat your body as you would a child, they say.

"Right." *reaches for La Chancla*

 

[Spiral]

I feel like the body I have commands me to do things. For example, when I feel hungry, I feel like the body is saying: "Fetch me something to eat, or I'll hurt you." And so I'm reluctantly complying with such demands because the alternative is to get hurt, and I don't want to get hurt.

Since it's something I rarely ever see being mentioned, I suspect it would seem weird from the perspective of other people. Depersonalization/detachment, some might say. I'd say, why would I identify with all my thoughts and feelings, treat them as mine and coming from me just because I happened to be the one experiencing them?

Any thoughts?

I have been thinking this for a while now. Like, all of us are just slaves to our body and we spend our entire existence running around to provide it with its never ending list of wants. Always too hot, too cold, too tired, hungry, needs to pee or poop, has to be exercised, it needs to breathe ect ect. None of those needs are mine and i have to work a job to earn money to provide all this stuff (that i dont need at all) for my stupid meat prison. It makes me so mad. I sometimes think that if i could experience planet earth as an insubstantial entity (like if i wasnt trapped in my meat prison) i might actually enjoy life.
Check out these two songs by TOOL Parabol and Parabola, they are about this feeling but looking at it in a more positive light like he knows he is seperate from his body but they are friends. Me and my body are not friends but the songs are awesome

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

It's been forced on me without my consent and I'm compelled to find things or people to blame.

One of the primary reasons why I'm Anti-Natalist.

 

[Spiral]

One of the primary reasons why I'm Anti-Natalist.

I am also an Anti-Natalist :)

 

[262653]

"Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing

Actually I kinda like the setting, just not the characters. I'm pretty sure it can be an above zero experience through the lenses of a different life form, or even a different version of human.

And I'm fine with being someone's slave as long as I'm treated nicely.

Insubstantial entity sounds delightful. That's why I like the dream setting. No physical pain, even though I can feel emotions and have sensory experience, sometimes even capable of conscious thought. There I can perform acrobatic tricks, call lightnings from the sky, jump from a high building and land unscathed like a badass.

The sense of self vs. others sounds a lot like what immune system is doing. Hypoactive, it allows the invaders to lay waste of the country. Hyperactive, it starts a civil war. Lots of animals seem to possess a resemblance of this sense. "If someone hurts me, then it's them who are enemies, not this body I inhabit." Animals fight others and flee from others, not that much themselves or from themselves. Perfect nationalists they seem to be.

@DoNotBoopTheSnoot Hmm... who would be parents here?
I do feel sometimes that the body needs to get disciplined, but most of the power seems to be in the arms of the child.

Abuse in an expected outcome in a relationship where one party (the narcissistic child) has overwhelming power over another party. Abuse can be avoided if both parties have the same goals, or maybe if the power is distributed equally among both parties.

There is a popular phrase circling in psychology field. "If you can't change the situation, change your attitude to it." I feel like it's the best option I currently have. Occasionally I listen to podcasts and music when I'm doing basic maintenance.

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

Hmm... who would be parents here?
I do feel sometimes that the body needs to get disciplined, but most of the power seems to be in the arms of the child.

The expression is not meant to be taken literally, but if you wanted me to be specific, 'parents' would refer to the ones responsible for bringing me into existence, namely (a) God (or whatever higher power you believe in) and (b) my flesh-and-blood parents.

(a) God as a spiritual parent
At first I saw suffering in a positive light. Surrendering to His will, I trusted him to have my best interests at heart. However, as the pain did not let up, my faith started to waver and I spiralled into depression. At one point I decided that I could take it no longer and made up my mind to die by my own hand. Even if that meant 'desecrating' His temple ("your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit", 1 Corinthians 6:19) and incurring His wrath. After all, I never asked to be born in the first place.

(b) My flesh and blood parents
Although she can be blunt at times, Mom has been loving and supportive — she dosen't deserve to be hurt. Me going through with CTB will leave them devastated and heartbroken by my 'betrayal'. This has caused much angst and procrastination as I try to keep myself in one piece.

I should've made things clear that my intentions were not to discipline or beat the 'child' into submission and bring about a positive outcome, but rather to vent my frustration and anger. I agree that self-harm/injury is not the best way to relieve stress and anxiety, however it was the only coping mechanism then when I felt utterly overwhelmed and there was no one I could turn to. Nowadays I rarely SI as flare-ups have become less frequent and severe.

 

[Deleted member 22624]

One of the primary reasons why I'm Anti-Natalist

I'm not strictly anti natalist, but society shows no compassion for people who believe their own birth had negative value for that person

 

[TooConscious]

I'm not strictly anti natalist, but society shows no compassion for people who believe their own birth had negative value for that person

Exactly antinatalists are accused of being lazy people looking to seek blame by people who themselves possess those traits more than anyone, it tends to be the people who have children to give a meaningful ng to their life. With no conscience how they mess the human up they're bringing to this shitty place.

 

[Spiral]

Exactly antinatalists are accused of being lazy people looking to seek blame by people who themselves possess those traits more than anyone, it tends to be the people who have children to give a meaningful ng to their life. With no conscience how they mess the human up they're bringing to this shitty place.

I think a lot of anti-natalists also are ecologically minded. It's not only about suffering its about over population and destruction of the planet. I think nobody should reproduce, even if they are really going to be great parents, adopt a child that already exists for sure, but people need to stop making more humans. My parents messed me up pretty bad, but I know people who are really happy with their family life who are anti-natalists for the sole reason that reproduction is really counterproductive at this point.

 

[Deleted member 22624]

I think a lot of anti-natalists also are ecologically minded. It's not only about suffering its about over population and destruction of the planet. I think nobody should reproduce, even if they are really going to be great parents, adopt a child that already exists for sure, but people need to stop making more humans. My parents messed me up pretty bad, but I know people who are really happy with their family life who are anti-natalists for the sole reason that reproduction is really counterproductive at this point.

I think animals suffer more so from our existence, that's true, but if we go as far as to say eliminate people to save the rest of the planet from us, my opinion is that still leaves behind a planet-full of suffering creatures

 

[Spiral]

I think animals suffer more so from our existence, that's true, but if we go as far as to say eliminate people to save the rest of the planet from us, my opinion is that still leaves behind a planet-full of suffering creatures

Yes all things that are conscious suffer, but they will thrive and suffer less without us, their habitats may recover, species might recover from the brink of extinction too. I just feel like they deserve a chance. We had our chance, and we accomplish only destruction of everything. Animals are not so stupid as us, they manage to co-exist without totally wiping each other out, even predator animals don't annihilate entire species. The whole system would balance perfectly without us messing it up imo

 

[Deleted member 22624]

Yes all things that are conscious suffer, but they will thrive and suffer less without us, their habitats may recover, species might recover from the brink of extinction too. I just feel like they deserve a chance. We had our chance, and we accomplish only destruction of everything. Animals are not so stupid as us, they manage to co-exist without totally wiping each other out, even predator animals don't annihilate entire species. The whole system would balance perfectly without us messing it up imo

It doesn't seem like we really deserve a chance. The only creatures that dominated like us was right at the beginning. Arguably a good thing came of it, but it wasn't busy wiping everything out and knowingly abusing it for its own purposes, basically easy money

 

[TooConscious]

Yes all things that are conscious suffer, but they will thrive and suffer less without us, their habitats may recover, species might recover from the brink of extinction too. I just feel like they deserve a chance. We had our chance, and we accomplish only destruction of everything. Animals are not so stupid as us, they manage to co-exist without totally wiping each other out, even predator animals don't annihilate entire species. The whole system would balance perfectly without us messing it up imo

Its true what Smith says in the matrix we are a virus, at least at the point of consciousness were at now most humans are sadists, inadvertently but especially to those who disagree with them, they couldn't care less for example I bet pro lifers would get me rip my finger nails off laughing hysterically.

You can enter eternal higher realms of consciousness but everything is suffering I believe it's better to never have existed then be persecuted for wishing to exit or as it's case in China fucking suicide nets at slave labour camps. Humans are sick.

 

[262653]

The expression is not meant to be taken literally, but if you wanted me to be specific, 'parents' would refer to the ones responsible for bringing me into existence, namely (a) God (or whatever higher power you believe in) and (b) my flesh-and-blood parents.

(a) God as a spiritual parent
At first I saw suffering in a positive light. Surrendering to His will, I trusted him to have my best interests at heart. However, as the pain did not let up, my faith started to waver and I spiralled into depression. At one point I decided that I could take it no longer and made up my mind to die by my own hand. Even if that meant 'desecrating' His temple ("your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit", 1 Corinthians 6:19) and incurring His wrath. After all, I never asked to be born in the first place.

(b) My flesh and blood parents
Although she can be blunt at times, Mom has been loving and supportive — she dosen't deserve to be hurt. Me going through with CTB will leave them devastated and heartbroken by my 'betrayal'. This has caused much angst and procrastination as I try to keep myself in one piece.

I should've made things clear that my intentions were not to discipline or beat the 'child' into submission and bring about a positive outcome, but rather to vent my frustration and anger. I agree that self-harm/injury is not the best way to relieve stress and anxiety, however it was the only coping mechanism then when I felt utterly overwhelmed and there was no one I could turn to. Nowadays I rarely SI as flare-ups have become less frequent and severe.

I wanted to improve my understanding of the analogy you have presented by asking who were the parents. I was thinking about DNA, or maybe even something more basic, but first wanted to hear what you think. God sounds very compatible with DNA (baser stuff) imo. It's in every one of "us", "we" are doing its bidding and there is no deviation from that, not even in the destruction of the temple.

The reason I thought of discipline is because I googled "la chancla", and associated it with "purposeful influence of a child's development" (beatings). Thanks for your clarification.

Animals are not so stupid as us, they manage to co-exist without totally wiping each other out, even predator animals don't annihilate entire species.

I think they would, if they could. If some species were to be wiped out by other species at some earlier point in time, then how do we sure they ever existed? I think their co-existence has little to do with the concern of others. Existing species are a bunch of "winners" who haven't been wiped out just yet.

It seems to me that human influence over other animals is growing very high very quick, and the greater degree of environmental manipulation is possible. Global "unnatural" effects disrupt the environment which up to date was just fine for the vast majority of existing life forms. Favorable conditions become unfavorable, and the multitudes of life forms are losing their place in a rapidly changing environment. New ones are emerging, not the cute animals but viruses, bacteria, or whatever is capable of thriving in man-made conditions.

In a similar way how steep cultural changes are followed by increased suicide rates, which I guess would then slowly decline as human species get acclimated to new conditions.