CTB prevention for 20-year old girl

[Esc9434]

Hi,

I have this family friend who is a 20-year old girl who has been diagnosed with chronic depression and bipolar disorder (not sure which one).

She has tried to CTB twice within the last 4 months.

She currently takes Aripiprazole and another medication that starts with an "l".

What additional medication or coping strategies can recommend to her mother to save her young life?

 

[needtogo]

Hi,

I have this family friend who is a 20-year old girl who has been diagnosed with chronic depression and bipolar disorder (not sure which one).

She has tried to CTB twice within the last 4 months.

She currently takes Aripiprazole and another medication that starts with an "l".

What additional medication or coping strategies can recommend to her mother to save her young life?

Diet and exercise is key. Gives you goals every day to achieve, and allows yourself to let out some of that anger.

 

[Lejes Rimul]

you know is there any specific reason for her trying to kill herself?

 

[catfletcher]

Maybe try reposting this in the recovery section...

 

[HadEnough1974]

Exercise daily for sure and know what's causing her to ctb.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Why "save her young life" so she can just keep suffering, she has two major illnesses and I assume she has struggled with this for years right? So it would be better kinder even to make sure she end her suffering in a peaceful way since 'recovery' is a joke, and for the few people who do "recover" they don´t live an amazing happy and fun life as they did as children they are just at most content with life so imo I wouldn´t settle for just beinig content when I now how amazing life used to be

I have posted this graph before but I think it still holds true except that I now at almost 26yo feel even worse but it was just a quick illustration.

 

[faust]

Hello, @Esc9434
There is no reliable way to save a person from CTB if she is determined to do so.
That's actually the most annoying thing about helplines and other stuff like that.
If you want to do so, you don't have to combat the consequences, you have to look at the reasons.
If a person does not have any reasons to stay or they do not outweigh desire to CTB, a person can try to find them.
It should be her own reasons not the imposed reasons.
This is not something that appears for one night.
Second thing is belief in tomorrow. She must be sure there is something that she can achieve in the future.
No bright future - less reasons to stay.
Also you can ask her what she really wants and depending on that, help her find her own way.
I will repeat, this is not something that appears for one night.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

The thing is, it's her life. If she wants to live, she has to be motivated to seek her own solutions.

I believe the best thing her mother can do is get support for herself to learn self-care and self-control rather than other-control, from sources like therapy or Al-Anon. Her daughter is an adult and this is out of the mother's control, so she would do well to learn what is within her control and how to cope with what is not. I highly recommend the book Boundaries.

 

[Esc9434]

Thanks guys. Keep the advice coming.

 

[pole]

be there for her, comfort her, empathize with her. shoulder the weight that shes carrying.

it's easier said than done. and its why the majority fail to do any of these things, even when trying to do these very same things. you need to genuinly be able to understand how. you do. you've felt the emotions she's felt, you're in her position. place yourself in her shoes, her body; how would you wanna be helped, if even helped? what would you wanna be told? you can be a huge help to her because YOU truly know how it feels. period.

 

[Esc9434]

Possible reasons for her CTB...

Father was not around while growing up, but she has a good mother who provided her everything she needed. Had a grandmother, grandfather, three aunts, and two cousins who was always around.

Her mother was always moving around the county during her grade school years, so she was always the new kid where ever she went. She switched to home school her last two-to-three years in high school.

One of her few friends CTB a year or two ago.

High expectations for herself at a young age. Harder to be successful as a young person these days.

She also started dating this bad kid who gave her some pills that probably trigger her predisposed mind to become bipolar. So yeah, typical daddy issues...

 

[Sensei]

OP, I'm bipolar too. You should listen to advice from pepople with caution, unless they are bipolar themselves or have read up thoroughly on the topic. What she's gone through can definitely contribute to her inner turmoil, but you must not forget that she's mentally ill.

Bipolar disorder is arguably the most complex and serious of all mental health conditions, only rivaled by schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, borderline personality disorder, and anorexia nervosa. All manners of treatment have been tried throughout the last two millennia, but the only one which has proven to work is modern medication. The most common medicines for treating bipolar disorder are lithium and lamotrigine, but the medication needs to be tailored to every individual.

That said, you should listen to needtogo, HadEnough1974 and Hasssssuùuu. What they suggest can be great complements to medication.

As long as she's emotionally unstable, she will probably be suicidal; she suffers a kind of "bipolar pain" which is difficult to explain. That's how it is for me, at least. Suicidality is, so to speak, built into untreated bipolar disorder. She's most probably not in her right mind now, possibly even having a depressive episode, and I don't think that one should end one's life under such circumstances. It should be a rational and well thought through decision.

I've compiled a guide to bipolar disorder if you want an introduction: A Guide to Bipolar Disorder.

 

[noaccount]

Instead of guessing reasons, people could listen to her and believe her and not use sexist phrases to describe her
Would have saved my life maybe

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Possible reasons for her CTB...

Father was not around while growing up, but she has a good mother who provided her everything she needed. Had a grandmother, grandfather, three aunts, and two cousins who was always around.

Her mother was always moving around the county during her grade school years, so she was always the new kid where ever she went. She switched to home school her last two-to-three years in high school.

One of her few friends CTB a year or two ago.

High expectations for herself at a young age. Harder to be successful as a young person these days.

She also started dating this bad kid who gave her some pills that probably trigger her predisposed mind to become bipolar. So yeah, typical daddy issues...

This sounds like it all came from the mother. No one knows the reasons except the woman -- not girl -- who attempted.

This is a pro-choice site. The woman has not come here seeking help. Instead, the OP is acting on behalf of the mother for the mother's pro-life agenda for her adult daughter.

I'm not going to fall prey to minimizing, vague, and/or pity-inspiring -- and therefore manipulative -- rhetoric to motivate me to go into rescue mode, like "save her young life," speculation about diagnosis, "20 year old girl," "possible reasons," "she has a good mother who provided her everything she needed," scapegoating the absent father, scapegoating the "bad kid" the woman dated and speculating he caused her not-for-certain bipolar to be triggered, and reinforcing the scapegoating of the father with "daddy issues."

Again, no one knows the reasons for her attempts but the woman who attempted. She didn't ask for our help, and her attempts and personal life our none of our damn business.

 

[UpandDownPrincess]

Hi,

I have this family friend who is a 20-year old girl who has been diagnosed with chronic depression and bipolar disorder (not sure which one).

She has tried to CTB twice within the last 4 months.

She currently takes Aripiprazole and another medication that starts with an "l".

What additional medication or coping strategies can recommend to her mother to save her young life?

We can't really help too much with someone else's care. She needs a doctor she can trust to help her with medications and she should be in therapy to talk about her suicidal impulses.

One of the things to remember is that what you or others perceive as her life circumstances means nothing. What matters is how she perceived it as she was growing up. Don't bother emphasizing that there were plenty of people there or that daddy caused trouble. It may not have felt that way to her, and for her to be helped, what matters is how it felt to her.

I've lived with bipolar disorder more than twice her lifetime over, and some practitioners are better than others, some years better than others, and yet I am still alive. Quite frankly, nothing my mother does has been a help. I've found people to add to my life who were better able to appreciate me, and better able to help me. My upbringing looked fine from the outside, but was horrible to me. It's important not to minimize what she's feeling or what she feels about her history. Just be there for her, listen if she wants to talk and encourage her to take up things (studies, hobbies) that make her feel better.

As far as medications go, lithium might be an option. It is the only drug (and it is really just a naturally occurring salt) that has been shown to help block suicidal impulses. It is often not prescribed first, as it has side effects and is harsh on the thyroid and the kidneys. It also requires regular blood tests to check blood levels. Despite all its shortcomings, it can be a wonder drug for some of us. If she is not under the regular care of a doctor who is familiar with it, it is not a great option.

 

[Sensei]

I'm not going to fall prey to minimizing, vague, and/or pity-inspiring -- and therefore manipulative -- rhetoric to motivate me to go into rescue mode, like "save her young life," speculation about diagnosis, "20 year old girl," "possible reasons," "she has a good mother who provided her everything she needed," scapegoating the absent father, scapegoating the "bad kid" the woman dated and speculating he caused her not-for-certain bipolar to be triggered, and reinforcing the scapegoating of the father with "daddy issues."

Speculation about diagnosis? The OP might of course be lying when they say that the woman in question suffers from chronic depression and bipolar disorder, but if we assume that it's a lie it will become difficult to discuss the problem at all. (I've taken for granted that the wording "not sure which one" refers to bipolar disorder I, II, or NOS.)

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Speculation about diagnosis? The OP might of course be lying when they say that the woman in question suffers from chronic depression and bipolar disorder, but if we assume that it's a lie it will become difficult to discuss the problem at all. (I've taken for granted that the wording "not sure which one" refers to bipolar disorder I, II, or NOS.)

I did not accuse anyone of lying, I used the word speculation, and I was going from the OP:

diagnosed with chronic depression and bipolar disorder (not sure which one).

I see now that you took it differently. Perhaps there is indeed a diagnosis and not speculation that she received one of two diagnoses, I may have been in error.

The rest of my comment stands. I'm not angry at OP, I was firmly stating that a boundary is being crossed here. Rhetoric is employed to convince, and I was stating that I am not convinced to help with this, but in fact feel that red flags are raised by the rhetoric employed. This thread is about helping the mother and it seems that all information is from her perspective and biased analysis.

This thread reads to me as a plea to help while omitting - quite easily unintentionally - the pro-choice foundation of this forum. The subject of the thread is an adult who has the right to define herself, define her motives, and determine her own outcomes, even if she is influenced by bipolar. She didn't ask us to analyze or rescue her, or influence her situation in any way. If we try to help rescue her, we are taking part in the very kind of pro-life interference that we ourselves claim causes harm.

 

[Esc9434]

@GoodPersonEffed Aye mayne, I'm just trying to help someone else out.

Just want to make this young lady is present all the options before CTB. She is young and can still turn things around.

I am pro-choice myself. Look at the thread I made since joining, I am Dr. Death.

Anyways, you made me laugh at your seriousness. I respect your dedication to your craft.

 

[Sensei]

I did not accuse anyone of lying, I used the word speculation, and I was going from the OP:

diagnosed with chronic depression and bipolar disorder (not sure which one).

I see now that you took it differently. Perhaps there is indeed a diagnosis and not speculation that she received one of two diagnoses, I may have been in error.

I shan't bore you with details, but it's a very common question: Is it bipolar disorder I or II? There are members in this forum who ask themselves that very question.

The rest of my comment stands. I'm not angry at OP, I was firmly stating that a boundary is being crossed here. Rhetoric is employed to convince, and I was stating that I am not convinced to help with this, but in fact feel that red flags are raised by the rhetoric employed. This thread is about helping the mother and it seems that all information is from her perspective and biased analysis.

Fair enough.

This thread reads to me as a plea to help while omitting - quite easily unintentionally - the pro-choice foundation of this forum. The subject of the thread is an adult who has the right to define herself, define her motives, and determine her own outcomes, even if she is influenced by bipolar. She didn't ask us to analyze or rescue her, or influence her situation in any way. If we try to help rescue her, we are taking part in the very kind of pro-life interference that we ourselves claim causes harm.

Now, this irritates me. "Influenced by bipolar." No one would say that about schizophrenia. If she's bipolar she is mentally ill, just like me. If the OP is telling the truth about her having bipolar disorder, chances are that she's unstable and impulsive. It certainly sounds like it. As I've state above and in many other threads, it's my firm belief that you shouldn't commit suicide when you're not in your right mind. It should be a rational decision.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Now, this irritates me. "Influenced by bipolar." No one would say that about schizophrenia. If she's bipolar she is mentally ill, just like me. If the OP is telling the truth about her having bipolar disorder, chances are that she's unstable and impulsive. It certainly sounds like it. As I've state above and in many other threads, it's my firm belief that you shouldn't commit suicide when you're not in your right mind. It should be a rational decision.

I would say that about schizophrenia or any mental illness, including addiction.

Perhaps your response to wanting to help her is because it is the help you yourself would want to receive if your mental illness was causing irrationality and actions against your best interest. Maybe you would be okay with your parents overriding your autonomy and privacy and telling your personal story to strangers in order to get you to safety, and so you are acting within the bounds of your ethics.

I myself have had my boundaries and autonomy overridden by my parents because they believed they knew what was best for me and because of what they wanted for me, without asking or accepting what I clearly stated I wanted for myself. In my experience, that is other-control, and I admit that it irritates me. Even when someone has bipolar or schizophrenia, they have the right to choose for themselves, to seek or to deny help, to self-harm. If they aren't harming others, they have the right to choose do what they want. When that right is taken away, people are forced into treatment. It is anti-choice, and it goes against the right to self-determination. If someone has cancer, they cannot be forced to receive help, to receive treatment, or to survive; mental health is no different and yet is treated as such, leading to pharmaceutical injury and the removal of liberties, including privacy.

 

[Sensei]

I would say that about schizophrenia or any mental illness, including addiction.

Perhaps your response to wanting to help her is because it is the help you yourself would want to receive if your mental illness was causing irrationality and actions against your best interest. Maybe you would be okay with your parents overriding your autonomy and privacy and telling your personal story to strangers in order to get you to safety, and so you are acting within the bounds of your ethics.

I myself have had my boundaries and autonomy overridden by my parents because they believed they knew what was best for me and because of what they wanted for me, without asking or accepting what I clearly stated I wanted for myself. In my experience, that is other-control, and I admit that it irritates me. Even when someone has bipolar or schizophrenia, they have the right to choose for themselves, to seek or to deny help, to self-harm. If they aren't harming others, they have the right to choose do what they want. When that right is taken away, people are forced into treatment. It is anti-choice, and it goes against the right to self-determination. If someone has cancer, they cannot be forced to receive help, to receive treatment, or to survive; mental health is no different and yet is treated as such, leading to pharmaceutical injury and the removal of liberties, including privacy.

You don't even bother to address my most important point, a point which arguably makes your arguments invalid. Are you purposfully dodging it as some kind of cheap debating trick or are you simply so full of yourself that you can't bother to read other people's posts properly? Maybe you need to boost your ego by winning debates in a forum for suicidal people?.Be that as it may. Life is short and I might shorten it even further, so I see no point in wasting time on "discussions" with you. Admittedly, I don't know you, but nevertheless, I expected more from you. I assume you want to play yes-you-did-no-I-didn't now.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

You don't even bother to address my most important point, a point which arguably makes your arguments invalid. Are you purposfully dodging it as some kind of cheap debating trick or are you simply so full of yourself that you can't bother to read other people's posts properly? Maybe you need to boost your ego by winning debates in a forum for suicidal people?.Be that as it may. Life is short and I might shorten it even further, so I see no point in wasting time on "discussions" with you. Admittedly, I don't know you, but nevertheless, I expected more from you. I assume you want to play yes-you-did-no-I-didn't now.

I can see you're upset, and I'll respond non-defensively.

In my experience, disagreements often happen between two people because they're not really having the same conversation. It seems that is happening here.

If you would like to, please re-state your most important point, and what of my arguments it invalidates. I will then make sure to directly address it.

 

[Oyoy]

Martial arts is a solution.

 

[terry_a_davis]

Referring to the some of the posts ITT. When my mental illness was active I was in effect slowly killing myself for reasons that weren't real. I had lost the ability to assess how my actions were effecting me, I had no insight of my own well being or my illness.

My family and mental health services intervened and they saved me. I hated it at first as I didn't understand or accept that I needed help. It was only after about 6 weeks of forced meds did I realise they were helping me.

That's not to say someone with a serious mental illness shouldn't have the right to ctb. But if those reasons for ctb are a symptom of an illness and thus something that can possibly be fixed then attempting to fix them should be the first course of action imo even if this means going against the persons wishes if they have no insight due to their illness.

I think Dignitas are on the right track:

"...proof of all therapies tried (with or without success) plus an in-depth psychiatric appraisal concerning the capacity of judgement and discernment in regard of the wish for a self-determined end of life, also confirming that this wish is not a symptom of the psychiatric illness but a well-considered balance decision."

Personally I would consider extending the Dignitas criteria, i think that if someone has suffered with a serious mental illness and has been demonstrably suffering for an extended length of time and tried all the various treatments with no success, then ctb due to symptoms of the illlness even with no insight might be justified as they're just suffering with no hope of recovering.