Discussion Criticism of Religions megathread!

[OzymandiAsh]

Since some of y'all want to hate on religions so much but apparently can't make your own thread for it. Well, here is the place!

Of course, all religions deserve some amount of criticism. For my part I prefer to defend them against criticism, especially ignorant and poorly considered or researched criticism, because I like religions to some extent and I suspect they all have elements of truth and goodness in them. Also, religions are not going anywhere and they are going to stick around for a long time, perhaps for the rest of history, so I don't think it's always helpful or a great use of time to criticise them while failing to appreciate their contributions or potential for positive change. But I will be CTB soon and won't be around much longer to do that. So here you are! Be free! What are your favourite religions to criticise on the internet?

 

[Macedonian1987]

I don't hate God at all because God is good and he is infinite love that loves us all.

What I hate is how the churches portray God as a sadistic entity who sends people to be tormented by burning in a lake of fire for all eternity.
Most of these priests who preach this (catholic and orthodox) teach us that the suffering is good and that we should endure it, if that is true why don't they suffer but live a life of luxury?

 

[aufrechtm7]

I don't hate God at all because God is good and he is infinite love that loves us all.

What I hate is how the churches portray God as a sadistic entity who sends people to be tormented by burning in a lake of fire for all eternity.
Most of these priests who preach this (catholic and orthodox) teach us that the suffering is good and that we should endure it, if that is true why don't they suffer but live a life of luxury?

This is why I struggle to follow religion. All of them have some truth to it, but in the end there's problematic text in most major religions which makes it difficult to follow and remain honest over.

Religion isn't needed for God anyway.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I don't hate God at all because God is good and he is infinite love that loves us all.

What I hate is how the churches portray God as a sadistic entity who sends people to be tormented by burning in a lake of fire for all eternity.
Most of these priests who preach this (catholic and orthodox) teach us that the suffering is good and that we should endure it, if that is true why don't they suffer but live a life of luxury?

The concept of an eternal hell full of torture and physical or quasi-physical suffering is the idea I resent most about the Abrahamic religions. It is simply not compatible in my mind with the idea of a Good God, and it just sounds like the pathetic projections of sadistic people onto God. Nope. This world is hell enough, thanks...

 

[alstroemeria55]

I don't know about you but I don't feel very loved by God or the universe in any significant way. If he had created me or this world with love in mind he would not make us suffer so much to the point we'd prefer to take our own lives.

 

[Macedonian1987]

Religion isn't needed for God anyway.

I completely agree with you. Even as a kid I found the things that these priests preached highly illogical and contradictory. After reading thousands of NDE reports over the past 15 years, I started believing in God in my own way.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I don't know about you but I don't feel very loved by God or the universe in any significant way. If he had created me or this world with love in mind he would not make us suffer so much to the point we'd prefer to take our own lives.

I get you. I feel loved by God, but only because of certain spiritual experiences I have had, including but not limited to the use of psychedelics. And also the love that I sometimes get from religious people, which they sometimes see as coming from God. But if it wasn't for those experiences I'm not sure that I would even believe in God, much less a loving one. I would suspect that there was something out there, though.

I think the universe or existence itself was created with love in mind, but not necessarily this world, which I see as a realm of punishment and suffering to some extent, a little like how the Dharmic religions (Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism) sometimes see it.

 

[aufrechtm7]

I don't know about you but I don't feel very loved by God or the universe in any significant way. If he had created me or this world with love in mind he would not make us suffer so much to the point we'd prefer to take our own lives.

There's a ton of religious "explanations" for this

 

[alstroemeria55]

I get you. I feel loved by God, but only because of certain spiritual experiences I have had, including but not limited to the use of psychedelics. And also the love that I sometimes get from religious people, which they sometimes see as coming from God. But if it wasn't for those experiences I'm not sure that I would even believe in God, much less a loving one. I would suspect that there was something out there, though.

I think the universe or existence itself was created with love in mind, but not necessarily this world, which I see as a realm of punishment and suffering to some extent, a little like how the Dharmic religions (Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism) sometimes see it.

I'm glad you had positive spiritual experiences, but while I still believed in God I received the worst treatment from religious people. They manage to excuse the worst behavior with repentance to God, but never making things right with the actual people they hurt.

I believe there's something out there we can't explain, which is why there are so many religions out there trying to explain it. But my conclusion is that either God is entirely cruel and complicit in the suffering he should have the power to prevent, or God is just another type of universal law like gravity or physics, a totally neutral party.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I'm glad you had positive spiritual experiences, but while I still believed in God I received the worst treatment from religious people. They manage to excuse the worst behavior with repentance to God, but never making things right with the actual people they hurt.

I believe there's something out there we can't explain, which is why there are so many religions out there trying to explain it. But my conclusion is that either God is entirely cruel and complicit in the suffering he should have the power to prevent, or God is just another type of universal law like gravity or physics, a totally neutral party.

Out of curiosity, what religion was this?

My logic for there not being an eternal hell by the way goes something like this:
I would not condemn even my worst enemies or the worst people who have ever lived to eternal hell, punishment, and torture. I might give them very severe punishments; for example I would make Hitler feel every ounce of pain and suffering that he inflicted upon others and himself. I might even conjure up some very elaborate punishments which could take a very long time. However, eternal torture is a no-no. And I am not the most merciful or most loving, according to the religions which believe in a universal God - He is. So if God is more loving, understanding and forgiving than I am, he would not punish a soul much more than I would. Likewise, I don't think I would punish most suicides or condemn them to even more suffering, without an exceptionally good reason.

As for the debate about whether God is a personal one or a universal principle/something abstract, I personally believe in both a personal and impersonal God. But again that is only following on from my experiences. God is something you have to find for yourself in my view, not something anyone else can really prove or show you.

I understand where you're coming from though, it is very much how I saw things once, and I am still confused by it all. I've done a lot of work to understand as much as I could and see things from God's eyes, but I simply can't, because I am only human. Maybe after I die I'll get more clarity, I sure hope so.

 

[alstroemeria55]

Out of curiosity, what religion was this?

My logic for there not being an eternal hell by the way goes something like this:
I would not condemn even my worst enemies or the worst people who have ever lived to eternal hell, punishment, and torture. I might give them very severe punishments; for example I would make Hitler feel every ounce of pain and suffering that he inflicted upon others and himself. I might even conjure up some very elaborate punishments which could take a very long time. However, eternal torture is a no-no. And I am not the most merciful or most loving, according to the religions which believe in a universal God - He is. So if God is more loving, understanding and forgiving than I am, he would not punish a soul much more than I would. Likewise, I don't think I would punish most suicides or condemn them to even more suffering, without an exceptionally good reason.

As for the debate about whether God is a personal one or a universal principle/something abstract, I personally believe in both a personal and impersonal God. But again that is only following on from my experiences. God is something you have to find for yourself in my view, not something anyone else can really prove or show you.

I understand where you're coming from though, it is very much how I saw things once, and I am still confused by it all. I've done a lot of work to understand as much as I could and see things from God's eyes, but I simply can't, because I am only human. Maybe after I die I'll get more clarity, I sure hope so.

Abrahamic religions, but ones that don't believe in hell. Imagine that.
I have given way more love, loyalty, understanding and forgiveness than I have ever received. I modeled love after what God's love is supposed to be before believing in him. I only got slapped in the face in return. Abused, abandoned, blamed and shamed. I cannot abide by a God who rewards the people who do the worst in his name and punishes the people who have genuine love and kindness in their hearts. No matter how many explanations people may muster or how many different readings of Job exist out there. Morality is supposed to be moral, just, but what I learn is that not everyone has the same idea of what morality or logic is. Either way you slice it the idea of an all-loving all-good omnipotent God is just not possible in this reality.

The best idea I've heard and can agree on is the Buddhist idea of Dukkha and escape from Samsara. That suffering needs to be accepted as a fact of life, because we will always long for something better, bigger, kinder, prettier, and so on. So far the idea of detachment to reach a kind of eternal peace in Nirvana is the most sound to me. But I still can't align myself with any religion in particular, because I simply cannot truly know the truth. I can only have ideas of what the truth may be based off my experiences, and my experiences so far have told me that religions only cause more harm, chaos and divisiveness than it causes good. You don't see people fighting over which religion helps people in need the most, you always see them fighting over which one is correct. It's all an ego dance.

All that being said this is just my opinion and experience, I know people have other more positive experiences than me and by no means am I saying all religious people are terrible but they seem to always manage to justify immoral acts for the sake of their faith.

 

[SoLowHollow48]

I like criticizing my own faith. It sucks. I've thrown it out of the window years ago. I am raised a Catholic but if I could be anything, I'd rather be uncivilized and worshipping trees.

The history of colonization, the people being hypocrites (I'm aware that all religions have hypocrites but they're just that icky, they change my outlook on my own religion), the bible cherry-picking, and cases of priests molesting kids.

Additionally, I cannot forget to include Christians and their denominations. I can't stand them. Only hanging out with me to drag me to their church, bro. Wtf.

Funny enough, my ex who CTB here was a Christian. She got devout a few months before her suicide.

I lost even more faith in god after it.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Feel free to insult religions and even God here, I probably won't protest, lol. One time a couple of very devout Sikh hippie twins told me "God is a sick fuck." lol. God does not seem to care what people think and say about him, or he would have given us more reason to believe in him and less reason to question and challenge him.

 

[Pluto]

 

[itsgone2]

What I hate is how the churches portray God as a sadistic entity who sends people to be tormented by burning in a lake of fire for all eternity.

I will say i like your posts very much and in many ways we are similar. So I'm not disagreeing, there certainly are some who portray the lake of fire. It is mentioned in the Bible too. But much of what Jesus says and the old testament describes are symbolic. The Catechism states the hell is the eternal separation from God. The hellfire is a way to symbolize that pain.
To me that makes sense. I feel it now. I've lived a poor life. Bad decisions have caught up to me. I've turned away from God more than I've turned toward. I feel that separation and hellfire may be dramatic but I'm in constant pain each day.
I wish it would stop. But this may just be my fate.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Can we question a religion without criticising it? Do you think people shouldn't question religion? I think it's necessary that anything that deeply affects how we live, what rules we have to adhere by, who gets excluded or subjugated- is examined closely.

Without having concrete proof that these rules came from a (good, moral) God, how can you be sure they weren't written by men? Or, at the minimum- that religions have been modified to benefit those with power.

I'm not denying that religion can be a force for good. It can encourage us to live altruistic, moral lives. It can give people a sense of strength and security. It can also retain unfair power dynamics, shield corruption, be used as a tool to create extremists who believe their God endorses violence.

I believe there needs to be a balance. The 'problem' with religion is- it is still presented by many as something we simply 'have' to accept. Because- if they're right- of course we probably shouldn't be questioning a God. But- how else do those who want to question be seen if they aren't criticising in some way? Sometimes in very forceful ways to try to counteract the (debatably) blind obedience by the faithful.

The same way that say- Jehover's Witnesses and missionaries may sincerely want to go around trying to spread 'the light' and 'save' as many other people's souls as possible. Those who believe religion has in fact done more damage in this world may also want to make other people aware of what they are actually supporting.

I've had at least 4 or 5 groups of people at my door or out on the street- trying to convert me to their religion. Has anyone had an atheist knock on their door- trying to convince them to renounce their faith?

Personally, I think it's important that everyone has a voice. By hearing multiple opposing views- that's how we come to settle on our own beliefs or non beliefs. If our beliefs can't stand up to scrutiny, questioning and even criticism then- how reliable are they even?

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Can we question a religion without criticising it? Do you think people shouldn't question religion? I think it's necessary that anything that deeply affects how we live, what rules we have to adhere by, who gets excluded or subjugated- is examined closely.

Without having concrete proof that these rules came from a (good, moral) God, how can you be sure they weren't written by men? Or, at the minimum- that religions have been modified to benefit those with power.

I'm not denying that religion can be a force for good. It can encourage us to live altruistic, moral lives. It can give people a sense of strength and security. It can also retain unfair power dynamics, shield corruption, be used as a tool to create extremists who believe their God endorses violence.

I believe there needs to be a balance. The 'problem' with religion is- it is still presented by many as something we simply 'have' to accept. Because- if they're right- of course we probably shouldn't be questioning a God. But- how else do those who want to question be seen if they aren't criticising in some way? Sometimes in very forceful ways to try to counteract the (debatably) blind obedience by the faithful.

The same way that say- Jehover's Witnesses and missionaries may sincerely want to go around trying to spread 'the light' and 'save' as many other people's souls as possible. Those who believe religion has in fact done more damage in this world may also want to make other people aware of what they are actually supporting.

I've had at least 4 or 5 groups of people at my door or out on the street- trying to convert me to their religion. Has anyone had an atheist knock on their door- trying to convince them to renounce their faith?

Personally, I think it's important that everyone has a voice. By hearing multiple opposing views- that's how we come to settle on our own beliefs or non beliefs. If our beliefs can't stand up to scrutiny, questioning and even criticism then- how reliable are they even?

People should absolutely question religions (and God), especially religious people. That is a level below criticism, but literally everyone should do it imo. I have done plenty of both before.

 

[alstroemeria55]

Both religious people and atheists as well have a tendency to cherry pick verses and not read scripture critically. I think if people genuinely want to argue over theology they should be familiar with the material they're arguing over. Inferences and interpretations are exactly why so many branches and denominations exist, and I feel like that leans towards proving that religions and Gods are purely man-made. There is no scientific imperial research of theology because religions are psychological and cultural phenomena. I think there should be better "scientific" research into religions that is entirely unbiased. The book Breaking The Spell by Daniel C. Dennett touches on this idea.