Crisis line: to call or not to call

[Whitewash11235814]

what do you suggest is a better reaction if someone calls up a crisisl line- says they really feel like themselves, they cant see a way out, they just want to die etc. and then say before you even have a chance to talk through their specific problem they suddenly put the phone down?- the fact that they have called up in the first place is surely a sign they want intervention, even on a subconscious level....

Sure, it could be a sign and a cry for help. You fail to look at the other side though. How many people resort to keeping it bottled in because they know those hotlines don't "permit" conversation on a deeper level? Many, including myself.

Oh and it doesn't take much suspicion and then its your word vs theirs...You're not going to win this battle. If they suspect or have probable cause to think you're planning ctb(you don't have to detail your plan from my experience and those that I know), you'll be confined against your will.


There are two sides to the coin. Yes, I believe people should be able to speak freely about their condition without risking the possibility of confinement. If it was a cry on a subconscious level, they could just PM their parents or friends and then you're almost certain of that type of "help".

what do you suggest is a better reaction if someone calls up a crisisl line- says they really feel like killing themselves, they cant see a way out, they just want to die etc. and then say for example, before you even have a chance to talk through their specific problem, they suddenly put the phone down?- the fact that they have called up in the first place is surely a sign they want intervention, even on a subconscious level....

thats fair enough- yeah I can see how for long term things it's useless-but i guess there are occasions when it may have helped people that are just in an immediate/short term/ temp crisis & i still maintain I can see the ethical dilemma a volunteer on a line could be faced with if they think someone will be attempting to ctb immediately after putting the phone down/ cutting a call short.

I already explained what I would do above. Diversity is also not a bad idea.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Sure, it could be a sign and a cry for help. You fail to look at the other side though. How many people resort to keeping it bottled in because they know those hotlines don't "permit" conversation on a deeper level? Many, including myself.

Oh and it doesn't take much suspicion and then its your word vs theirs...You're not going to win this battle. If they suspect or have probable cause to think you're planning suicide(you don't have to detail your plan from my experience and those that I know), you'll be confined against your will.


There are two sides to the coin. Yes, I believe people should be able to speak freely about their condition without risking the possibility of confinement. If it was a cry on a subconscious level, they could just PM their parents or friends and then you're almost certain of that type of "help".

I already detailed my reaction and response above.

But say that suicide conversation IS permitted (which I believe it is on some level), like you ARE allowed to have that conversation, and they gladly/supportively listen away to someone that says they have those thoughts- thats all well and good-but what I am saying is what if that person is talking hysterically through tears, like v.distaught, what if they tell them on the phone they are standing on the edge of a bridge or something, at what point & under what cicumstances should confidentiality possibly be cast aside?- this is the dilema I can see that they face & it doesnt need to even be that u are on a bridge-but I felt like that was a good example.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

what do you suggest is a better reaction if someone calls up a crisisl line- says they really feel like themselves, they cant see a way out, they just want to die etc. and then say before you even have a chance to talk through their specific problem they suddenly put the phone down?- the fact that they have called up in the first place is surely a sign they want intervention, even on a subconscious level....

thats fair enough- yeah I can see how for long term things it useless-but i guess there are occasions when it may have helped people that are just in an immediate/short term/ temp crisis & i still maintain I can see the ethical dilema a volunteer on a line could be faced with if they think someone will be attempting to ctb immediately after putting the phone down/ cutting a call short.

I agree Heart. It is a dilemma. Even without the prospect of being charged for neglecting to report the individual it would be very hard to ignore someone who seems hell-bent on suicide, particularly when you do not know why they are contemplating such an act/what is happening in their lives.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I agree Heart. It is a dilemma. Even without the prospect of being charged for neglecting to report the individual it would be very hard to ignore someone who seems hell-bent on suicide, particularly when you do not know why they are contemplating such an act/what is happening in their lives.

complex issue-no easy answer i guess-as with everything in life....c'est la vie....as they say.

 

[Whitewash11235814]

But say that suicide conversation IS permitted (which I believe it is on some level), like you ARE allowed to have that conversation, and they gladly/supportively listen away to someone that says they have those thoughts- thats all well and good-but what I am saying is what if that person is talking hysterically through tears, like v.distaught, what if you tell them on the phone you are standing on the edge of a bridge or something, at what poin t& under what cicumstances should confidentiality possibly be cast aside?- this is the dilema I can see that they face & it doesnt need to even be that u are on a bridge-but I felt like that was a good example.

I already explained my point on this. I'll recap my stance again to make it clear. I appreciate your opposing view tho and its good to have a conversation about this. I think its a complex topic with many facets and its hard to nail down any one conclusion. I think in the end whichever side you choose, there will always be cases where some get the shorter end of the stick. This is why I prefer to look at it on a grander scale.

1.) the system is not effective in treating or changing the minds of clinically depressed. I had been hospitalized 6 times and had the opportunity to talk to many individuals about their experiences. I know this 3 day-hold is not a good enough deterrent for the clinically depressed. It may be of help to those who are acting out of impulse (as I already mentioned before), but it will do nothing or maybe even worsen the condition of a person suffering from clinical depression. You're speaking as if you're saving a life, but trust me when I say that most people who get admitted face the exact same struggles once they get discharged.

2.) The value of an open discussion in a time of great stigma is very much needed. I can tell you that most people don't trust those suicide hotlines and for a good reason too. They're just people doing their work and abiding by certain protocols. Most people know they're not a relatable source and you'll find many forums and posts telling you this exact same thing.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

complex issue-no easy answer i guess-as with everything in life....c'est la vie....as they say.

Well crisis lines used to be worth while, and they were not designed for suicides, but for all kinds of issues...including grief, which was very handy for me at the time. Now, however they barely give you time. If you are not suicidal their is no interest...Canada.

I already explained my point on this. I'll recap my stance again to make it clear. I appreciate your opposing view tho and its good to have a conversation about this. I think its a complex topic with many facets and its hard to nail down any one conclusion. I think in the end whichever side you choose, there will always be cases where some get the shorter end of the stick. This is why I prefer to look at it on a grander scale.

1.) the system is not effective in treating or changing the minds of clinically depressed. I had been hospitalized 6 times and had the opportunity to talk to many individuals about their experiences. I know this 3 day-hold is not a good enough deterrent for the clinically depressed. It may be of help to those who are acting out of impulse (as I already mentioned before), but it will do nothing or maybe even worsen the condition of a person suffering from clinical depression. You're speaking as if you're saving a life, but trust me when I say that most people who get admitted face the exact same struggles once they get discharged.

2.) The value of an open discussion in a time of great stigma is very much needed. I can tell you that most people don't trust those suicide hotlines and for a good reason too. They're just people doing their work and abiding by certain protocols. Most people know they're not a relatable source and you'll find many forums and posts telling you this exact same thing.

Less drugs and more listening is required, but all the medical/psych. resources are based around drugs, and that is a huge mistake. Listening is a gift that few possess, and so...here we are on SS listening to one another...makes you think. That is after all why most of us are here, and many have gone into recovery from this site. For good reason, the listeners are still here.:)

 

[MeltingHeart]

Yes - I do agree with u on many levels- and in very simple terms - I also believe in prevention is better than cure- as in people are not getting the help they need before it reaches the point of such desperation - I can understand that some people feel there is nowhere irl that is 'safe ' for them talk about how they feel. That must be hard. I guess I cant comprehend it in some ways because at this point on a personal level - I have no inclination to even discuss it with anyone- but I realise some people want that & need that- and they don't know where they can do that except here- which must be frustrating.

Well crisis lines used to be worth while, and they were not designed for suicides, but for all kinds of issues...including grief, which was very handy for me at the time. Now, however they barely give you time. If you are not suicidal their is no interest...Canada.

Less drugs and more listening is required, but all the medical/psych. resources are based around drugs, and that is a huge mistake. Listening is a gift that few possess, and so...here we are on SS listening to one another...makes you think. That is after all why most of us are here, and many have gone into recovery from this site. For good reason, the listeners are still here.:)

Yes indeed. I agree with that. It is certainly hard to find someone that can listen properly without judgment, either dramatising or on the flip side totally undermining how I feel- both in personal lives & the medical professions. You have actually nailed it - because in very simplified terms not being listened to in time, when I really really needed to be - is a major cause of me wanting to ctb.!

 

[umniak]

No, whatever you do don't, you'll just end up in the psych-ward.

 

[WhiteDespair]

Well crisis lines used to be worth while, and they were not designed for suicides, but for all kinds of issues...including grief, which was very handy for me at the time. Now, however they barely give you time. If you are not suicidal their is no interest...Canada.

Less drugs and more listening is required, but all the medical/psych. resources are based around drugs, and that is a huge mistake. Listening is a gift that few possess, and so...here we are on SS listening to one another...makes you think. That is after all why most of us are here, and many have gone into recovery from this site. For good reason, the listeners are still here.:)

I know SS has affected me in some way. I've felt compassion for people. I've picked up a few things about myself. I've been able to bring up pain from the deepest parts of my being.

I have no idea what this all means! It must be above my realm of understanding :/

In the article above they said they found the girl by tracing her IP. Proxies would obscure your real IP with one based on the proxy's location. A UK proxy would give a UK IP. 7 is 7 times that. Then, if you say you're at <address> and want to CtB, they'll send people to the address but you're in the US behind 7 proxies. Waste of their time and resources.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I used to call the Samaritans in the UK and I've had this discussion with them. They stated that their calls were anonymous they had no idea the number you were calling from.
They were happy to talk about suicide and I've had individuals say they were pro choice. I've even had some say they would stay on the phone whilst someone ctb to offer support.
However, at times I've shown great distress they have offered a callback. They'd need your number and that rang alarm bells. They've also told me that the only time they'd call the police would be if you were going to harm someone else.
Generally they've listened and are basically someone to vent to. I've only had one who put the phone down after saying "I can't handle this." Poor chap.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I used to call the Samaritans in the UK and I've had this discussion with them. They stated that their calls were anonymous they had no idea the number you were calling from.
They were happy to talk about suicide and I've had individuals say they were pro choice. I've even had some say they would stay on the phone whilst someone ctb to offer support.
However, at times I've shown great distress they have offered a callback. They'd need your number and that rang alarm bells. They've also told me that the only time they'd call the police would be if you were going to harm someone else.
Generally they've listened and are basically someone to vent to. I've only had one who put the phone down after saying "I can't handle this." Poor chap.

"I've even had some say they would stay on the phone whilst someone ctb to offer support." This is v.v.surprising to hear-pretty sure the ae NOT meant to say that!

 

[Deleted member 1465]

"I've even had some say they would stay on the phone whilst someone ctb to offer support." This is v.v.surprising to hear-pretty sure the ae NOT meant to say that!

Yeah I know. I actually question if I heard them right but I'm pretty sure that that's what was said. Maybe I misunderstood, but generally I've found the Samaritans to be pretty relaxed.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Yeah I know. I actually question if I heard them right but I'm pretty sure that that's what was said. Maybe I misunderstood, but generally I've found the Samaritans to be pretty relaxed.

I think that could definitely be verging on encouagement - or what the expession -when someone actively does nothing to deter you-even though they know you ae about to? Ive seen it used on here but cant think what its called-something like inactively stopping or something-kind of like being a passive observer-say you were stood right next to someone on a bridge & literally did nothing...Im pretty sure that person wouldnt have stayed in that job for long if anyone had found out- I dont even think they would even allow some to work on those lines if the found out they were pro-choice even tbh, though I guess that would be tricky to prove with certainty.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I've done it about a half dozen times--phone, SMS, and email. Never helped. But hurt several times. Once, I opened up to an ex-friend who was a psychiatry resident in another state. She called the local police (my state) and had me dragged out of my house in an ambulance then committed (involuntary). One of the worst experiences of my life. After, she told me on the phone, "Don't ever call me again." This is a psychiatrist who just had someone committed. Then abandoned. So crisis line? Big "no" for me.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

 

[hypo666]

I have called the samaritans myself in the past,though not when I made a suicide attempt as I had gone beyond talking. I was sometimes a bit concerned that I wasn't completely anon,thought it possible the samaritans say it's anon to encourage people to phone them but it's not completely .... and I presume they can trace calls.my suspicions were further aroused when I read on their website {not sure if this is still there} someone who frequently calls them {they didn't state how frequently this has to happen before they do this which is unhelpful}, the samartians will phone them and suggest a 'management plan' on the calls,I presume because due to how many calls they get they have to put a limit on it . That really worried me as what if they phone someones landline and it is picked up by someone else ,not the caller, what would they do 'hang up'? or ask to speak to the caller and identify themselves?

Ialways thought it wasn't completely anon though, as it's a dodgy legal area, what if the caller threatens to harm others not just themselves?,what if someone is actually taking an overdose while on the phone? , I believe it has to be a clear and immediate threat to someone else for them to contact the police but who knows?,not all the people who answer the phones for the samaritans are carbon copies, I have talked to some nice samaritans and some not so nice ones.

in the past I have told them about my thoughts of revenge due to what was done to me years ago , but I never revealed names or anything else that could identify them for this reason as the people who messed with me still live nearby. Don't fancy getting a knock on the door and possibly a criminal record for making a threat,I have enough shit going on.

Another thing I never knew until I read the small print about the samaritans ,is when you phone them ,it will be put through to the local branch first and only if they are too busy will it go nationwide, that worried me, as the world is smaller than you think it's shocking how you can bump into people you used to know, you could easily end up talking to anyone who might put two and two together. Not everyone will obey a confidentiality agreement and one reason I used to phone the samaritans was it would be nationwide to begin with and not that close to home.