Discussion Closing the site to the public

[GoneGoneGone]

It's a minor detail but this poll isn't really representative of the opinion in this forum with barely 100 votes. So that's not 60% of the members in this forum that want a certain portion of the forum closed of, that's 60% of the people participating in this particular topic. And this poll wasn't created by Staff either so I don't know why the outcome of this poll would determine any change.

Thank you for your answer. I have asked twice to move this thread in the Suicide Section, so that we could have a bigger sample. Also, if possible, I would kindly ask that the Staff create such a poll. Thank you in advance.

Also there is a much better solution to those pro-life people monitoring us: don't post personal information.

I'm not necessarily talking about personal information - age, country etc, but some users have certain very specific life situations and somebody with patience could piece together such information and identify the person. If we cannot talk about these specific life situations... then what's the point.

I was polite in my response, please do not call me paranoid. Just in the past month and a half we had three doxxing incidents that we know of so I don't think I'm totally out of line.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Thank you for your answer. I have asked twice to move this thread in the Suicide Section, so that we could have a bigger sample. Also, if possible, I would kindly ask that the Staff create such a poll. Thank you in advance.

There is no intention on our part to change the visibility of the forum any time soon.

I'm not necessarily talking about personal information - age, country etc, but some users have certain very specific life situations and somebody with patience could piece together such information and identify the person. If we cannot talk about these specific life situations... then what's the point.

I was polite in my response, please do not call me paranoid. Just in the past month and a half we had three doxxing incidents that we know of so I don't think I'm totally out of line.

They can still do that if the forum is members-only. Registering an account takes no efforts and it's very likely that they already have accounts, which they use to spy on us. So this really isn't gonna solve your problem. I still believe that if you act with common sense and keep a certain amount of privacy, nobody is gonna find out your identity.

Are you saying you don't understand why questions, comments, and concerns of the user base of this forum are important or could possibly change anything? The opinions of 100 users are just insignificant to you because you disagree?

That's not what I said. Please read again. @GoneGoneGone complained that we're not implementing the result of this poll and I explained that this poll and the 60% that voted for option 1 isn't representative. I never said they're insignificant because I disagree with them. You said that. It's not how a democratic process works though and even if it would, this forum doesn't even necessary fall under a democratic system either.

It would stop a lot of the people(s) who don't want to take "a matter of seconds" from seeing what is going on at all times and stop them from being able to effortlessly stalk users of this forum but tbh I don't know why we have to pontificate why we want privacy. It should be the standard not the exception.

Do you think the people that run websites like fixthe26 are gonna stop monitoring and screenshotting our activity because they need to register an account? I can almost promise you, that this is gonna happen and it maybe even already happened. They have access to this forum and they're probably already members. So what exactly is this gonna change in regards to your concern about privacy?

Why are my offtopic posts and recovery posts being used as your personal tactic and strategy towards dying as a human right? I think your personal tactics and strategy are as insufficient as your responses in this thread.

They're not used as my personal tactics and strategy. You're reading too much into my post. I'm saying that the right to die is morally justifiable and a human right, therefore we don't have to hide this forum.

lol "hey there's groups of people screen capping stuff and stalking users across the internet don't be so paranoid believe me guys I know what I'm talking about".

If you have common sense and understand the basics of privacy, it's not such a big deal.

Bad look.

Your opinion.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

There is no intention on our part to change the visibility of the forum any time soon.

I guess we have our answer.
Thank you.

 

[waived]

That's not what I said. Please read again. @GoneGoneGone complained that we're not implementing the result of this poll and I explained that this poll and the 60% that voted for option 1 isn't representative. I never said they're insignificant because I disagree with them. You said that. It's not how a democratic process works though and even if it would, this forum doesn't even necessary fall under a democratic system either.

I'm not talking about a democratic systems or any of that at all, believe me, I understand the history and role of democracy as you've begun to demonstrate here but nevermind that, I'm referring to your dismissive attitude when you say "It's a minor detail but this poll isn't really representative of the opinion in this forum with barely 100 votes." and also "this poll wasn't created by Staff either so I don't know why the outcome of this poll would determine any change.". Basically what I quoted the first time. The reason this poll and others like it matter to the staff is because it represents the opinions of the user base in how the forum is run. The users on both sides of this discussion. The users who everyone has mentioned in most of the posts in this thread as being so important to the forum.

Do you think the people that run websites like fixthe26 are gonna stop monitoring and screenshotting our activity because they need to register an account? I can almost promise you, that this is gonna happen and it maybe even already happened. They have access to this forum and they're probably already members. So what exactly is this gonna change in regards to your concern about privacy?

No doubt there are also far worse people. What it will greatly change is the speed in which information is obtained and transmitted. It will not stop the most determined but as my original post pointed out it will stop the people who don't want to spend "a matter of seconds" (several minutes) to register. The reason is because your user base is worth at least this layer of effort towards privacy. Right? As the main point in my response, privacy isn't the exception its the standard.

They're not used as my personal tactics and strategy. You're reading too much into my post. I'm saying that the right to die is morally justifiable and a human right, therefore we don't have to hide this forum.

You are publicly facing everyone's off topic and recovery posts. It is a deliberate decision when people suggest more privacy and you say "no". There is a difference between "not hiding" and "being exposed" and it's the autonomy and agency involved.

If you have common sense and understand the basics of privacy, it's not such a big deal.

You are talking about 'common sense' and 'understanding' on a forum where people arrive in crisis. As another user has pointed out recently above there are unique life situations among other things that reveal entirely more than you appear to be able to imagine.

Your opinion.

It is, and I'd wish you'd reconsider it.

 

[Sinkinshyp]

'Fixthe26' has screenshot posts from here and posted on twitter! I'd be furious if it was one of my posts.
I also think kids and teenagers could get access to the site and a lot of the information that's accessible to the public, could be dangerous to them, especially if they're having difficulties in their lives along with raging hormones. We need to be mindful especially of children reading about methods to CTB
I believe children/teenagers would be less likely to open an account for fear of their parents checking their phones.
I wouldn't worry about anyone else reading the site, if they're adults, but if a child attempts CTB and it's discovered that they were viewing this site, there could be trouble.

I totally agree with you. I have to refrain from saying things in concern someone young could be reading my post. I think actual methods should be member only. I remember when I was a teenager and suicidal I was a rare case. Now it seems to be common younger people want to ctb. I know society is a major factor- I have to wonder about whats in the food. Is chemicals in our diets causing mental health issues starting from a young age?

what is doxxing/doxed?

 

[Symbiote]

Doxxing - search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the internet, typically with malicious intent.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

hat is doxxing/doxed?

Doxxing is publishing someone's personal/identifiable information (name, photo, address, phone number etc.) on a forum or a website.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Just in the past month and a half we had three doxxing incidents that we know of so I don't think I'm totally out of line.

I'm not aware of these. Could you or someone get me up to speed?

 

[SpinningSong]

Since SN is getting of the market, I see the need

 

[Deleted member 1465]

This site is open to all and people discuss things that anyone can view, which appears to have had a detrimental effect on one of the prime reasons for the existence of the site.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

I'm not aware of these. Could you or someone get me up to speed?

I could but I cannot discuss banned members here right?
The only case which is not banned and technically not doxxing has already been mentioned, Rosey and her ex-husband

 

[StuFin]

I'm not sure I'd have joined if I hadn't had a flavour of what lurked within, and if we don't want to hide anything - being pro-choice rather than pro death, then what's the point?

Anyone who wanted to get inside to see, i.e. pro lifers could just join anyway.

So unless you're going to vet people, which just wouldn't work, I think you'd see member numbers dwindle, the site become a ghost town, and not much would change.

But I understand the concern, I just don't think there's anything you can realistically do about it without introducing a layer of scrutiny and censorship that no one would be willing to sign up to.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I could but I cannot discuss banned members here right?
The only case which is not banned and technically not doxxing has already been mentioned, Rosey and her ex-husband

Oh, I think I see. I don't know that it's not okay to talk about banned members, especially if something happened on the open forum and it's relevant to a discussion. I know Jean4 got doxxed several months back but she intentionally put her identity out there herself. @WilliamBaker doxxed himself by using his real name as his user name, his photo as his avatar, his location, and posted photos of himself; he self-banned. @RoseyBird's identity hasn't been revealed, but she got found out by her abusive ex.

Sorry, I don't mean to be pedantic, it's just that doxxing -- having someone else reveal your identity or personal contact details without your permission -- is some scary stuff! I haven't seen it happen yet on the forum and was concerned I'd missed not just one incident but three.

What @RoseyBird experienced is also a very real fear, and is indicative of abuse, stalking, DV, etc. But I don't know the whole story, like if he found the site in the browser history of a device she used, or if he himself was researching suicide, found the forum, and saw her posts, etc. (@RoseyBird, I'm not pushing you to say!).

My point in posting this comment is to remind others (and myself) to think critically when there's fear, because fear pushes critical thinking out of the way as it's slower and "survival" response is immediate. Fixthe26 is using intimidation tactics with screenshotting, which causes fear. Doxxing causes fear, that's why I was being so exact about it.

Thinking critically, without fear, I think most folks who get found out are found out after they die and someone goes looking for answers; or while they're alive, because they've revealed too much personal information or posted a photo with exif data on the forum or in PMs; or because an irl partner, friend or family member discovers site use from the member leaving up the site, (edit thanks to @RoseyBird: catches the member using the site or the member talks about the site), not clearing their browser history, not using an onion browser, etc.

 

[Ghost2211]

Oh, I think I see. I don't know that it's not okay to talk about banned members, especially if something happened on the open forum and it's relevant to a discussion. I know Jean4 got doxxed several months back but she intentionally put her identity out there herself. @WilliamBaker doxxed himself by using his real name as his user name, his photo as his avatar, his location, and posted photos of himself; he self-banned. @RoseyBird's identity hasn't been revealed, but she got found out by her abusive ex.

Sorry, I don't mean to be pedantic, it's just that doxxing -- having someone else reveal your identity or personal contact details without your permission -- is some scary stuff! I haven't seen it happen yet on the forum and was concerned I'd missed not just one incident but three.

What @RoseyBird experienced is also a very real fear, and is indicative of abuse, stalking, DV, etc. But I don't know the whole story, like if he found the site in the browser history of a device she used, or if he himself was researching suicide, found the forum, and saw her posts, etc. (@RoseyBird, I'm not pushing you to say!).

My point in posting this comment is to remind others (and myself) to think critically when there's fear, because fear pushes critical thinking out of the way as it's slower and "survival" response is immediate. Fixthe26 is using intimidation tactics with screenshotting, which causes fear. Doxxing causes fear, that's why I was being so exact about it.

Thinking critically, without fear, I think most folks who get found out are found out after they die and someone goes looking for answers; or while they're alive, because they've revealed too much personal information or posted a photo with exif data on the forum or in PMs; or because an irl partner, friend or family member discovers site use from the member leaving up the site, not clearing their browser history, not using an onion browser, etc.

He had no trouble finding the site because he had seen that I was talking to the group in the past. I never personally shared the site name or anything like that with him. He does not have access to my search history because he never has access to my iPad which is the only way I use the site. He approached me a couple days before he called the police saying that he wanted to join the group as well for suicide support, and at that time I did not reveal the name of the site and told him that would be a conflict of interest. I think he did a simple search for suicide support since he knows I have a history of suicidal ideation, and there's not a lot of groups out there that handle this kind of thing. I didn't go to massive lengths to hide who I am from anyone in the real world, but I also never say anything that could get me hospitalized. he found the site because he had very specific intentions to find it and use it as a weapon, and his efforts failed.

there is no need for anyone on this site to worry about this case as an example of your potential safety unless someone in your life is hunting for you.

 

[Gnip]

One of the reasons I joined this site was out of concern it might become closed to the public. Glad to be here!

 

[GoneGoneGone]

He had no trouble finding the site because he had seen that I was talking to the group in the past. I never personally shared the site name or anything like that with him. He does not have access to my search history because he never has access to my iPad which is the only way I use the site. He approached me a couple days before he called the police saying that he wanted to join the group as well for suicide support, and at that time I did not reveal the name of the site and told him that would be a conflict of interest. I think he did a simple search for suicide support since he knows I have a history of suicidal ideation, and there's not a lot of groups out there that handle this kind of thing. I didn't go to massive lengths to hide who I am from anyone in the real world, but I also never say anything that could get me hospitalized. he found the site because he had very specific intentions to find it and use it as a weapon, and his efforts failed.

there is no need for anyone on this site to worry about this case as an example of your potential safety unless someone in your life is hunting for you.

Thank you Rosey, I'm sorry about what you went through and I apologize for opening this wound

 

[Ghost2211]

Thank you Rosey, I'm sorry about what you went through and I apologize for opening this wound

No need to apologize. I think it's good to share these kind of experiences because it helps everybody with the bigger picture of what risk we face when we speak publicly, and it helps with better understanding safety.

 

[waived]

☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟres

-Users have pointed out that the goal is to limit the amount of personally identifying information for both safety and because people don't voyeuristically broadcast personal information past points of their control anywhere else and no less, here.

-There has been no conversational effort put towards "shutting the entire forum down and making it an exclusive club so that the forum's membership dries up and the forum closes." and what is being proposed would not lead to that scenario.

-Offtopic and Recovery should be entirely screened from the public. In addition to this I am interested in ideas logistically on how to limit the searching of user information (posts, etc) from within the forum.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟres

-Users have pointed out that the goal is to limit the amount of personally identifying information for both safety and because people don't voyeuristically broadcast personal information past points of their control anywhere else and no less, here.

-There has been no conversational effort put towards "shutting the entire forum down and making it an exclusive club so that the forum's membership dries up and the forum closes." and what is being proposed would not lead to that scenario.

-Offtopic and Recovery should be entirely screened from the public. In addition to this I am interested in ideas logistically on how to limit the searching of user information (posts, etc) from within the forum.

There is no intention on our part to change the visibility of the forum any time soon.

This was from the mod. I guess they have their reasons for it. Hiding stuff would only further the agenda that there is some sort of "encouragement" going on here. I can see both sides of the coin although I would prefer at least the minimum degree of privacy.

 

[fly away]

I initially liked a post putting some safeguards on. But I have 2 thoughts.
We will never get past the stigma that probably all of us has felt at one point, if we are not allowed to talk about our feelings or try to help someone who is hurting.
But, I think the aggregation of all the methods shouldn't be so public. Believe me, the resources, info mega threads are invaluable , but really can be found if one researches.
Maybe the methods should be private, but the forums should stay open. That is my own very humble opinion....feel free to yell at me!

 

[omoidarui]

But, I think the aggregation of all the methods shouldn't be so public. Believe me, the resources, info mega threads are invaluable , but really can be found if one researches. Maybe the methods should be private

I reiterate this is exactly what the opposition wants, and those who don't believe in the Right to Die would want the information of how to do so peacefully to be as inaccessible as possible.

The enemy knows if they can't get us shut down, they can at least try to force us into a corner and get us off search engines and basically obscure the info from the general public, earning their pyrrhic victory of committing people to life by this forum's own subjugation

Luckily I don't think the admins will ever full-succumb, but ima still stand my ground when people suggest making Resources private. Guests should have a choice too.