Help Checklist for Survival Instinct

[Cryptonite]

Hi everyone,

right now I'm working on a checklist for things necessary to overcome survival instinct, either with a long-term or short-term effect. So far I have this:

• psilocybin (magic mushrooms)
• DMT near-death experience
• benzodiazepines (Xanax)
• alcohol
• total acceptance of fate – accepting physical disease, forgiving doctors/parents
• desensitization of death – e. g. reading about it
• targeted exposure to other people living their full-fledged lives (works for me)
• strong will for the finish

I'm wondering, is there anything else that you would add to this list? Thank you!

 

[FuneralCry]

I do not know exactly how to overcome the survival instinct, but the way that I see it, I believe that it is a feeling someone has when they know it is time to leave, they feel certain and confident about their decision and you cannot force these feelings.

The survival instinct can certainly be very frustrating as even know we want to die we are programmed to survive. I personally believe that many people who ctb where completely desperate and the agony of living got to be unbearable, they felt an extreme need to escape. I wish you peace in whatever you decide to do, I am sorry for whatever suffering brought you to the point of hopelessness.

 

[eremito]

this is the topic which I am strongly examining just now
I may only come up with meditation.
and possibly: https://www.nfb.ca/film/griefwalker/

 

[Cryptonite]

I do not know exactly how to overcome the survival instinct, but the way that I see it, I believe that it is a feeling someone has when they know it is time to leave, they feel certain and confident about their decision and you cannot force these feelings.

The survival instinct can certainly be very frustrating as even know we want to die we are programmed to survive. I personally believe that many people who ctb where completely desperate and the agony of living got to be unbearable, they felt an extreme need to escape. I wish you peace in whatever you decide to do, I am sorry for whatever suffering brought you to the point of hopelessness.

That seems like the biggest problem. My situation is that, after many years, I was cured from a very severe illness that for the first time in my life enabled to live me normally and shortly after I got struck by totally unrelated severe illness. So I still haven't recovered and haven't been able to realize that my life slipped again through my fingers. I still subconsciously believe that this must not be true and it's just a nightmare I will wake up from.

 

[Alex6216]

You could go on Twitter for a minute and lose all hope in humanity, that might give you the courage ;)

 

[lostmylove]

Ultimately I believe only willpower will be enough. Other stuff could help depending on the person. But I don't like the idea of being high when wanting to die. I want dignity. I want peace and I have conviction of my decision.

Doesn't mean I'm not scared but when it's time to go I will know .

 

[Oblivion Access]

Benzo choice doesn't really matter, something that kicks in fast and hard like alprazolam (aka Xanax) might be preferable to something with a longer Half-Life. I'm kinda skeptical of how useful benzos are for CTB purposes tbh, might make some people temporarily feel better to where they no longer have the determination to go through with it. Though I guess ppl who successfully used benzos to CTB aren't around to report their utility.

 

[braindead911]

I would personally go with xanax and alcohol. But that's just me.

 

[Smart No More]

I'd scrap the psychedelics. They will be more likely to increase your survival insitinct. That said there's the chance they will help you with depression so maybe it's worth a shot. Wouldn't do it alone though. You need a trustworthy trip siter really.

 

[Cryptonite]

I'd scrap the psychedelics. They will be more likely to increase your survival insitinct. That said there's the chance they will help you with depression so maybe it's worth a shot. Wouldn't do it alone though. You need a trustworthy trip siter really.

Do you think they would increase it? Some people say they've lost fear of death after experiencing breakthrough. Especially with DMT, which is around 90% similar to real near-death experience.

I would personally go with xanax and alcohol. But that's just me.

Sounds like a good idea, what's the effect when combined? Have you tried it?

Ultimately I believe only willpower will be enough. Other stuff could help depending on the person. But I don't like the idea of being high when wanting to die. I want dignity. I want peace and I have conviction of my decision.

Doesn't mean I'm not scared but when it's time to go I will know .

I've been thinking of psychedelics rather as a tool for long-term SI relief. But yeah, I would like to explore the idea of dying when high, why not. I mean, I don't care about means as much as the end goal

 

[Smart No More]

Xanax and alcohol will knock you out but it does make SI much easier to handle while you're awake.

DMT may help but its not guaranteed. It's quite different to an 8 hour lsd trip.

 

[Cryptonite]

Xanax and alcohol will knock you out but it does make SI much easier to handle while you're awake.

DMT may help but its not guaranteed. It's quite different to a 8 hour lsd trip.

Would you say LSD could work better in this regard?

 

[Smart No More]

Would you say LSD could work better in this regard?

No I'd say LSD will be more of a potential increaser of SI. Its a long trip and can be overwhelming. SI can kick in under those circumstances or at least fight or flight. Same thing kinda. DMT is short and intense by contrast but has more of a reported 'break through' result.

With psychedelics like LSD you will find benzos bring you down/out of it. That can be a real benefit when ti gets too much.


I'm not sure if your plan is to use the psychadelics and everything else in combination at the point you plan to ctb. If that's the case it's a bad idea IMHO. Everyone's different but my own experience says it's really not a good idea. Many people will tell you that taking a trip requires the right setting to avoid a bad trip. It's a volatile experience for many.

 

[Lost Magic]

Propranolol would help because it would reduce the anxiety and increased heart rate.

 

[Cryptonite]

No I'd say LSD will be more of a potential increaser of SI. Its a long trip and can be overwhelming. SI can kick in under those circumstances or at least fight or flight. Same thing kinda. DMT is short and intense by contrast but has more of a reported 'break through' result.

With psychedelics like LSD you will find benzos bring you down/out of it. That can be a real benefit when ti gets too much.


I'm not sure if your plan is to use the psychadelics and everything else in combination at the point you plan to ctb. If that's the case it's a bad idea IMHO. Everyone's different but my own experience says it's really not a good idea. Many people will tell you that taking a trip requires the right setting to avoid a bad trip. It's a volatile experience for many.

Thank you for your advice

I'm more interested in long-term potential of psychedelics, but if there's anything that would help at the point, I'm down for it

I'd scrap the psychedelics. They will be more likely to increase your survival insitinct. That said there's the chance they will help you with depression so maybe it's worth a shot. Wouldn't do it alone though. You need a trustworthy trip siter really.

Unfortunately I don't have any sitter and can only do solo, do you think I can still manage to get the right experience somehow?

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Three weeks ago I met my suicide partner and we were going to hang ourselves together. When we reached the tree we had chosen my survival instinct became stronger and stronger and finally I backed out. At least we met for the first time now and we are confident that next time we will succeed.

The lesson I have learned is that my survival instinct becomes the stronger the closer the time of death approaches. An early point of no return would help. For example if you have the money to pay a hitman you can order your death. Of course he must not know, that his employer is the target, otherwise he would know that he will never get the second rate.

 

[Cryptonite]

Three weeks ago I met my suicide partner and we were going to hang ourselves together. When we reached the tree we had chosen my survival instinct became stronger and stronger and finally I backed out. At least we met for the first time now and we are confident that next time we will succeed.

The lesson I have learned is that my survival instinct becomes the stronger the closer the time of death approaches. An early point of no return would help. For example if you have the money to pay a hitman you can order your death. Of course he must not know, that his employer is the target, otherwise he would know that he will never get the second rate.

So basically good method and desensitization is the key to it all

 

[Smart No More]

Thank you for your advice

I'm more interested in long-term potential of psychedelics, but if there's anything that would help at the point, I'm down for it

Unfortunately I don't have any sitter and can only do solo, do you think I can still manage to get the right experience somehow?

Possibly but you should be careful if you have mental health issues that make you erratic or unpredictable because if you're having a bad experience alone it could end poorly. If you just have a friend to trip with it would be better. There's experimental treatments for depression involving mushroom/psilocybin so that might actually be something that improves your quality of life if depression is a big factor in your desire to ctb. It's arguably a little easier to dose mushrooms so maybe starting with very low doses you could work your way upto a beneficial dose that suits your needs. I'm not convinced it would improve your ability to overcome SI but who knows. If the goal is that or improving your life then maybe it's win win as it could go either way. It would just be a horrible thing to experience death whilst actually high on psychedelics though in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't want to risk it. Honestly I think if you're really eanting to ctb and you have the means there's not a lot that would make SI any easier to overcome other than things like benzos and opiates but as someone else pointed out (and I too have posted in line with in the past) it could provide a comfort that makes living easier and therefore have the opposite effect on your desire to ctb.

All things said and done, if things are bad enough and you have the means for a peaceful exit I think SI is going to be less of an issue. If you have to do a lot of work to make your peace with dying and ctb then I kind of worry and feel that maybe it's not the right thing for someone in thst situation. If the starkness of your ongoing suffering and immediate pain isn't doing it then ctb could well be premature and I think this deserves serious consideration even though it is the opposite to what you're searching for in posting this thread. I mean living happily trumps all right? If there's even the slightest possibility don't deny yourself that chance in fear of not being able to overcome SI as a result. Maybe I'm reading into it incorrectly. I jest get that feeling from your post that there may still be hope for you yet.

 

[Cryptonite]

Possibly but you should be careful if you have mental health issues that make you erratic or unpredictable because if you're having a bad experience alone it could end poorly. If you just have a friend to trip with it would be better. There's experimental treatments for depression involving mushroom/psilocybin so that might actually be something that improves your quality of life if depression is a big factor in your desire to ctb. It's arguably a little easier to dose mushrooms so maybe starting with very low doses you could work your way upto a beneficial dose that suits your needs. I'm not convinced it would improve your ability to overcome SI but who knows. If the goal is that or improving your life then maybe it's win win as it could go either way. It would just be a horrible thing to experience death whilst actually high on psychedelics though in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't want to risk it. Honestly I think if you're really eanting to ctb and you have the means there's not a lot that would make SI any easier to overcome other than things like benzos and opiates but as someone else pointed out (and I too have posted in line with in the past) it could provide a comfort that makes living easier and therefore have the opposite effect on your desire to ctb.

All things said and done, if things are bad enough and you have the means for a peaceful exit I think SI is going to be less of an issue. If you have to do a lot of work to make your peace with dying and ctb then I kind of worry and feel that maybe it's not the right thing for someone in thst situation. If the starkness of your ongoing suffering and immediate pain isn't doing it then ctb could well be premature and I think this deserves serious consideration even though it is the opposite to what you're searching for in posting this thread. I mean living happily trumps all right? If there's even the slightest possibility don't deny yourself that chance in fear of not being able to overcome SI as a result. Maybe I'm reading into it incorrectly. I jest get that feeling from your post that there may still be hope for you yet.

Unfortunately no hope :-( incurable spinal disease with progressive pain

If I didn't have it, I would definitely want to live a life

it happened just after I got cured from another severe illness I had been battling for so many years, so it's EXTREMELY frustrating

 

[sfabians]

Maybe hiring s-meone or a group of pe-ple to do that. A peaceful pill.

 

[MicropBaldCurrycel]

I believe that it is a feeling someone has when they know it is time to leave, they feel certain and confident about their decision and you cannot force these feelings.

Fully agree with you, i too believe when it comes time for me to ctb im gonna go through with it without any doubt im sure 100% .

Id be long gone if i had a gun or other method actually.

 

[The Disinherited]

I think OP was misunderstood regarding psychedelics, seemed to me that people thought OP wanted to be on psychedelics at the time of his ctb. Rather OP only wants to use the psychedelics as a long term means of eroding or annihilating the survival instinct...then (sometime after) Ctb probably sober or under the influence of something lighter.

I also have a question. Do youse believe there's a time that people are ready and at peace to suicide and that readiness and feeling of being at peace justifies and validates suicide? Paradoxically if those not ready to ctb went through with it (remember this is a paradox so those not ready to go through with it in reality always don't) they really would end up worse off in some realm in between or hell...But because in reality suicides seem to always have overcome primal fear of death (survival instinct) and are at peace, this might mean they have secured a decent spot on the other side of life too. Similar to all this, what if the minority per centage of people who survived a jump from the Golden Gate bridge and then told of how they regretted their action mid jump/suicide attempt survived precisely BECAUSE they regretted it and weren't ready to die.

 

[Cryptonite]

I think OP was misunderstood regarding psychedelics, seemed to me that people thought OP wanted to be on psychedelics at the time of his ctb. Rather OP only wants to use the psychedelics as a long term means of eroding or annihilating the survival instinct...then (sometime after) Ctb probably sober or under the influence of something lighter.

I also have a question. Do youse believe there's a time that people are ready and at peace to suicide and that readiness and feeling of being at peace justifies and validates suicide? Paradoxically if those not ready to ctb went through with it (remember this is a paradox so those not ready to go through with it in reality always don't) they really would end up worse off in some realm in between or hell...But because in reality suicides seem to always have overcome primal fear of dearth (survival instinct) and are at peace, this might mean they have secured a decent spot on the other side of life too. Similar to all this, what if the minority per centage of people who survived a jump from the Golden Gate bridge and then told of how they regretted their action mid jump/suicide attempt survived precisely BECAUSE they regretted it and weren't ready to die.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant, although I would also be open to CTBing when on psychedelics, if that ever worked.

I personally truly believe that there is no supernatural stuff around suicide. I don't believe that there is any other side. I also think that these famed visions shortly before death are organic (probably caused by DMT) and death is just pure nothingness comparable to deep dreamless sleep.

 

[The Disinherited]

What if the subjective experience of those final real seconds before one dies (an endogenously produced DMT trip) is akin to experiencing a full bodiless mental afterlife of however many years (be it 100 years or 1000 years) where all your dreams come true. That's a win win for both for us, you can keep your reductive materialist view because after all it's the brain in its death throes producing those experiences and I keep my belief in a purely mental reality that is blissful.
But back to the topic at hand, I think insight or certain mentally satisfying subjective truths (truths about one's identity, sense of self and meaning of one's own life) go as long a way as any material substance in annihilating or eroding the survival instinct.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

What if the subjective experience of those final real seconds before one dies (an endogenously produced DMT trip) is akin to experiencing a full bodiless mental afterlife of however many years (be it 100 years or 1000 years) where all your dreams come true. That's a win win for both for us, you can keep your reductive materialist view because after all it's the brain in its death throes producing those experiences and I keep my belief in a purely mental reality that is blissful.
But back to the topic at hand, I think insight or certain mentally satisfying subjective truths (truths about one's identity, sense of self and meaning of one's own life) go as long a way as any material substance in annihilating or eroding the survival instinct.

You seem to be inspired by near death experiences. I think that near death experiences have nothing to do with death experiences like a near miss has nothing to do with a hit. I believe it´s the reassembling of our consciousness what one experiences when one experiences a NDA.

But given you are right, how can you be sure that it is not a horror trip? The idea that there will not be instant nothing after going to black out frightens me and would rather strengthen my survival instinct.

 

[The Disinherited]

You seem to be inspired by near death experiences. I think that near death experiences have nothing to do with death experiences like a near miss has nothing to do with a hit. I believe it´s the reassembling of our consciousness what one experiences when one experiences a NDA.

But given you are right, how can you be sure that it is not a horror trip? The idea that there will not be instant nothing after going to black out frightens me and would rather strengthen my survival instinct.

The horror trip scenario holds me back a great deal, "why trade in one nightmare for another?" is something I ask myself when I think about suicide