What do you think about this phenomenon and its causes? Personally, I consider it to be an unacceptable, extreme form of homophobia, that derives directly from a theocratic form of government. Another reason I dislike religio-political ideologies.
They're not. Religious fundamentalism tends to be about the strict application of supposedly unchanging divine rules. That is inherently authoritarian and does not have human happiness and freedom as its core goals.
That's why I'm a humanist, not a religious fundamentalist.
Reactions:
ladylazarus4, GreenGlassDoor, Forever Sleep and 2 others
What do you think about this phenomenon and its causes? Personally, I consider it to be an unacceptable, extreme form of homophobia, that derives directly from a theocratic form of government. Another reason I dislike religio-political ideologies.
I think it's appalling to do this in the name of religion or any other reason. Do they think homosexuals are pretending to be gay to piss 'God' off? If there is a God- who do you suppose created homosexuality in the first place? And why? To see if they would resist their urges? I mean- maybe. A lot of religion does seem set up like that. Resist lust, gluttony, wrath etc. to prove how much you love God. Fine- if you want to play along. Who knows? Maybe it's all true and you'll get your reward in heaven. But, a lot of the world is secular now. Religion isn't law. All of us shouldn't have to abide by someone else's beliefs.
Even when it was illegal, it messed up people's lives. Imagine being told you couldn't consentually love someone who loved you back. That's so messed up!
As for people saying it isn't 'natural'. Neither is wearing clothes, driving a car, eating processed food, using the internet, watching Netflix etc. You wanna give those things up too? Besides- we do see homosexuality in animals sometimes.
The other argument I guess is promiscuity and the spread of STDs. I know straight people who are incredibly promiscuous as well. Honestly- it's not my thing but, whatever their sexuality- they both know the risks and how to protect themselves from it. It's up to them. I believe that anything that is consensual and not hurting others (I'm not keen on people who cheat,) that's their business and no one elses.
There's also the more Catholic belief that sex should be in the service of creating children... Like we need more humans on this overstretched planet!
I've even heard the argument that AIDS was God's punishment for gays... So, I'll leave it with the wonderfully outspoken Ricky Gervais on God giving the virus AIDS it's mission...
Reactions:
ForsakenDial, locked*n*loaded, pleaseiwanttogo and 3 others
Religion and state should always be separate. Religion is biased against most people. It does not take logic or science into account. Take topics like abortion or even homosexuality. I believe in freedom to live life. Now, it's the individual's choice what they want to do as long as they are not affecting other people badly. We don't choose who we love. Live and let live. These religious nutters don't really think at all, not talking about a particular religion(every religion in general). I watched a documentary on genetic defects in children of first cousin marriage couples. There is evidence to prove it but people refused to accept it. There was a couple who had 2 children with extreme mental and physical disabilities and they kept having children and when asked in the interview, they just blamed the doctors saying the doctors did something. There are so many other such examples. Religion and science will never work together. I love the west for this reason. At least they accept people for who they are. LGBTQ rights are good there. Now, even the west is becoming stupid. They want to abolish abortion. Do they know what happens to a child whose parents don't want it. Will the stupid religious people care for the child. They don't care about anyone, they just want some kind of higher ground. If they cared, they would not want any child to suffer in the foster homes. Some homes might be great but a lot are not. Kids deserve so much better. Also, what someone does in their bedroom should be a private affair, not a government or any other person's issue. I can't understand how it is affecting them at all.
Reactions:
ForsakenDial, ladylazarus4, sserafim and 3 others
When small groups of people have all the power, such as in theocratic states, everyone suffers. The West has been just as guilty the past so IMHO, there's nothing to be gained from pointing fingers and assigning blame. No civil rights movement has ever been an overnight success as that's not how human nature works. But the best way forward to support those people who are trying to achieve change from the inside. Be positive, not negative. Win friends rather than making enemies. It's slower and frustrating but history shows us time and time again that it's the most successful method.
The most optimistic thing to say is that evolution is not a straight line.
WWII was surely the darkest chapter of the 20th century, but later gave rise to new international cooperative structures (UN, etc.) and civil rights movements.
Similarly, while we are unfortunately drifting in a direction of fundamentalist theocracies, authoritarianism and oligarchy, it may well lead to a more enlightened global society a further 30-40 years down the line.
Reactions:
Aergia, juna, Malaria and 1 other person
What do you think about this phenomenon and its causes? Personally, I consider it to be an unacceptable, extreme form of homophobia, that derives directly from a theocratic form of government. Another reason I dislike religio-political ideologies.
Personally, I consider it to be an unacceptable, extreme form of homophobia, that derives directly from a theocratic form of government. Another reason I dislike religio-political ideologies.
This usually happens as a result of religion not being separated from the state, but something interesting to note is the role that past colonialization plays in a lot of the anti-lgbtq+ laws that we see in many countries today, especially in countries that currently or have in the past part took in the use of capital punishment against gay people. Homosexuality was considered normal in a lot of different countries around the world before colonization. European colonization is what led to the creation of many anti-homosexual laws that can still be seen in many parts of the world today, and by extension, a lot of the homophobia found in these countries.
The hostility towards homosexuality can also partly be attributed to how other societal issues, such as the patriarchy, impact how queer people in general are treated. For example, the gender roles heavily enforced in different parts of the world exist to keep men in power. Hence the whole men = dominant and woman = submissive sort of thing we see all over the place. Queer people exist outside of those norms, going against the status quo. Part of why gay men tend to get more severe punishments in a lot of countries where homosexuality is illegal, including capital punishment, could partly be because it is associated with more feminine men. Femininity is demonized and looked down upon, especially in men since it's seen as a sign of weakness. For men to keep the power they have in society they must be seen as powerful and domineering figures, something that feminine men go against. They need to follow a specific set of expectations to both seem powerful and to gain more power, especially over women.
While women get shamed for being masculine the punishment they receive for it is generally less severe since masculinity is seen as the default. Femininity, on the other hand, is seen as something that deviates more from the norm. Hence why, for example, most cis-het individuals have a hard time recognizing a lesbian accent but can easily recognize a gay accent.
As a result, when men act in any sort of way that is feminine it generally tends to be both more obvious and is shamed more.
This isn't to say that lesbians don't face a shit ton of issues though, because of course they still get punished and lesbians are also very oversexualized. This over-sexualization does make it so that homophobic men aren't as likely to be as hostile towards them in the same manner they are with gay men, but it does come with its own host of issues. Anyway, this is why you notice that a lot of countries that kill gay people or that have laws against homosexuality are also very deeply patriarchal societies.
Another interesting thing to note is also differences in how tops are viewed in comparison to bottoms. Tops generally tend to be seen in a better light then bottoms due to them being seen as the more masculine ones. This is a bit unrelated, but it's interesting to note because it ties into how sex, gender, and power all intertwine. Even within same-sex relationships we still see many people, especially cis-het people, viewing them from a very cis-het "man vs woman" sort of perspective, in which one member is the "man" of the relationship and the other is the "woman". The more masculine precieved person is the seen as the one who holds the power in the relationship, similar to how we view heterosexual relationships. To top is to be strong and dominant and to overpower someone, thus to be a top is to seen as more masculine and thus is better than the person who is the bottom. This can even be seen in some past societies, like in Ancient Greece, where men who were penetrative were seen as effeminate and would be referred to as "kinaidoi".
In fourth-century BCE Athens, the orator Demosthenes is labelled a kinaidos in the courtroom by his opponent in order to besmirch his masculinity and accuse him of shameless conduct.
Tom Sapsford discusses the "kinaidos": a type of person noted in ancient literature for his effeminacy and untoward sexual behaviour. Some scholars think he was perhaps an imaginary figure, but Sapsford looks into financial records, letters, and temples that complicate our understanding of this...
blog.oup.com
I personally am completely against capital punishment being used on gay people, let alone anyone for that matter. Capital punishment should be illegal as a whole. I'm also very against discriminatory laws against queer people and just anti-lgbtq+ discrimination as a whole.
Reactions:
ForsakenDial, IBM0000, eatantz and 1 other person
I think it's extremely inhuman for your life and bodily autonomy to be taken from you purely because you are yourself. It's very disgusting and horrifying. I think the causes in some countries that still do this is maybe a severe prejudice against homosexuality that has been instilled in different families and generations of people
It's pretty pathetic to justify your enragement about muslims (brown people/black people for the most part)
using homosexuality or women's rights when you yourself are the ones that support dictatorships which have no problem committing war crimes. You are really stooping to a new low, Pessismist.
Do you wanna know why this stuff happens? Because of the total us and western support of dictatorships and destruction and death and wars. The US its allies are one of many direct causes of oppression in the world. SHOCKING, WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT THAT THE WEST IS EVIL?
I think it's extremely inhuman for your life and bodily autonomy to be taken from you purely because you are yourself. It's very disgusting and horrifying. I think the causes in some countries that still do this is maybe a severe prejudice against homosexuality that has been instilled in different families and generations of people
This usually happens as a result of religion not being separated from the state, but something interesting to note is the role that past colonialization plays in a lot of the anti-lgbtq+ laws that we see in many countries today, especially in countries that currently or have in the past part took in the use of capital punishment against gay people. Homosexuality was considered normal in a lot of different countries around the world before colonization. European colonization is what led to the creation of many anti-homosexual laws that can still be seen in many parts of the world today, and by extension, a lot of the homophobia found in these countries.
The hostility towards homosexuality can also partly be attributed to how other societal issues, such as the patriarchy, impact how queer people in general are treated. For example, the gender roles heavily enforced in different parts of the world exist to keep men in power. Hence the whole men = dominant and woman = submissive sort of thing we see all over the place. Queer people exist outside of those norms, going against the status quo. Part of why gay men tend to get more severe punishments in a lot of countries where homosexuality is illegal, including capital punishment, could partly be because it is associated with more feminine men. Femininity is demonized and looked down upon, especially in men since it's seen as a sign of weakness. For men to keep the power they have in society they must be seen as powerful and domineering figures, something that feminine men go against. They need to follow a specific set of expectations to both seem powerful and to gain more power, especially over women.
While women get shamed for being masculine the punishment they receive for it is generally less severe since masculinity is seen as the default. Femininity, on the other hand, is seen as something that deviates more from the norm. Hence why, for example, most cis-het individuals have a hard time recognizing a lesbian accent but can easily recognize a gay accent.
As a result, when men act in any sort of way that is feminine it generally tends to be both more obvious and is shamed more.
This isn't to say that lesbians don't face a shit ton of issues though, because of course they still get punished and lesbians are also very oversexualized. This over-sexualization does make it so that homophobic men aren't as likely to be as hostile towards them in the same manner they are with gay men, but it does come with its own host of issues. Anyway, this is why you notice that a lot of countries that kill gay people or that have laws against homosexuality are also very deeply patriarchal societies.
Another interesting thing to note is also differences in how tops are viewed in comparison to bottoms. Tops generally tend to be seen in a better light then bottoms due to them being seen as the more masculine ones. This is a bit unrelated, but it's interesting to note because it ties into how sex, gender, and power all intertwine. Even within same-sex relationships we still see many people, especially cis-het people, viewing them from a very cis-het "man vs woman" sort of perspective, in which one member is the "man" of the relationship and the other is the "woman". The more masculine precieved person is the seen as the one who holds the power in the relationship, similar to how we view heterosexual relationships. To top is to be strong and dominant and to overpower someone, thus to be a top is to seen as more masculine and thus is better than the person who is the bottom. This can even be seen in some past societies, like in Ancient Greece, where men who were penetrative were seen as effeminate and would be referred to as "kinaidoi".
Tom Sapsford discusses the "kinaidos": a type of person noted in ancient literature for his effeminacy and untoward sexual behaviour. Some scholars think he was perhaps an imaginary figure, but Sapsford looks into financial records, letters, and temples that complicate our understanding of this...
blog.oup.com
I personally am completely against capital punishment being used on gay people, let alone anyone for that matter. Capital punishment should be illegal as a whole. I'm also very against discriminatory laws against queer people and just anti-lgbtq+ discrimination as a whole.
You are the breath of fresh air I was hoping for. Yes. It's true, if countries weren't colonized by the obvious villanous west. These concerns would be resolved in a humane way despite the west liking to demonize us because of what they did. Truly cartoonishly evil.
I live in one of those countries and we do have an underground gay community of sorts but the risk is obviously too high and most people are too afraid to go public about it. It's honestly really scary to think that I have to keep my tendencies secret forever because of theocrats and their cronies forgetting that there are people who don't follow these religions. A highly conservative society that doesn't yield to any forms of dissidence can be good for survival but ends up being terrible for people like us who just want to be left alone. Rather than solitude we just live in fear. I always wish we could go back in time to pre-colonisation and reverse some things. It's always the same enemy. I hate this place.
Reactions:
deadtomorrow, sserafim, Aergia and 1 other person
I live in one of those countries and we do have an underground gay community of sorts but the risk is obviously too high and most people are too afraid to go public about it. It's honestly really scary to think that I have to keep my tendencies secret forever because of theocrats and their cronies forgetting that there are people who don't follow these religions. A highly conservative society that doesn't yield to any forms of dissidence can be good for survival but ends up being terrible for people like us who just want to be left alone. Rather than solitude we just live in fear. I always wish we could go back in time to pre-colonisation and reverse some things. It's always the same enemy. I hate this place.
It fucking pisses me off when US and Western people come yapping to us about human rights. Maybe don't support the fascist dictatorships or arm fascist terror groups that executes people who support human rights in those countries? Say. Where are you from? I am from Qatar, originally Yemen. You?
I live in one of those countries and we do have an underground gay community of sorts but the risk is obviously too high and most people are too afraid to go public about it. It's honestly really scary to think that I have to keep my tendencies secret forever because of theocrats and their cronies forgetting that there are people who don't follow these religions. A highly conservative society that doesn't yield to any forms of dissidence can be good for survival but ends up being terrible for people like us who just want to be left alone. Rather than solitude we just live in fear. I always wish we could go back in time to pre-colonisation and reverse some things. It's always the same enemy. I hate this place.
Modern islam is far stricter than modern christianity. Being in a christian majority country is significantly better than being in a muslim majority country
Modern islam is far stricter than modern christianity. Being in a christian majority country is significantly better than being in a muslim majority country
Hold your horses.
There's a reason these modern Muslim nations are worse off than modern christianity ones and it's certainly related to colonialism and unfair exchange as well as destabilization efforts by the west.
Not to say that the christian African or even some European countries are really good places to live in.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
en.wikipedia.org
www.thepinknews.com
