can’t find literature on what happens if you survive sn

[Reallyreallyreally]

I can't find any literature on what happens if you survive sn. I don't want to end up a long term resident of a state run hospital due to severe brain damage. What is the survival rate. I tried to look it up myself but all I can find is clinical reports of autopsy findings and medical interventions used on survivors. Nothing about long term effects on the lives of survivors.

 

[SinisterKid]

SN is fully reversible. Those who are found, given the antidote, recover with little/no ill effects. Those who are not found invariably die from it. No reports of brain damage or other issues because of this. Hope that helps.

 

[Reallyreallyreally]

Thank you. Have you found reports specifically stating that it doesn't? It seems like a drug that induces severe hypoxia would cause brain damage quickly and easily. I'm going to keep looking.

 

[squirtsoda]

The type of hypoxia it creates (I don't quite understand why) doesn't seem to promote cell death in the brain in the same way as other methods. For instance, alcohol is histotoxic hypoxia-inhibits the tissue's ability to use oxygen. I think cutting wrists is hypemic hypoxia/blood loss. Hypoxic hypoxia would be inert gas poisoning or other suffocation methods. Stagnant hypoxia would be like the night night method or hanging. Now I think, but I could be wrong (about all of this), that anemic hypoxia is what SN causes and something about what it does with the hemoglobin or another chemical in the blood somewhat delays the death of cells from lack of oxygen, hence you don't get those horrific consequences of brain and nerve damage-at the very least you would die before you could get that irreversible brain damage.

 

[Reallyreallyreally]

The type of hypoxia it creates (I don't quite understand why) doesn't seem to promote cell death in the brain in the same way as other methods. For instance, alcohol is histotoxic hypoxia-inhibits the tissue's ability to use oxygen. I think cutting wrists is hypemic hypoxia/blood loss. Hypoxic hypoxia would be inert gas poisoning or other suffocation methods. Stagnant hypoxia would be like the night night method or hanging. Now I think, but I could be wrong (about all of this), that anemic hypoxia is what SN causes and something about what it does with the hemoglobin or another chemical in the blood somewhat delays the death of cells from lack of oxygen, hence you don't get those horrific consequences of brain and nerve damage-at the very least you would die before you could get that irreversible brain damage.

Very interesting lead. I'm going to google this.

 

[squirtsoda]

Very interesting lead. I'm going to google this.

I'm just spitballing based on what I know from my education in aeromedical factors, but the anemic hypoxia side and what SN does with hemoglobin and that methemoglobin***? I really don't know anything about. The other types of hypoxia I know plenty about though.

 

[spanishguy22]

SN is fully reversible. Those who are found, given the antidote, recover with little/no ill effects. Those who are not found invariably die from it. No reports of brain damage or other issues because of this. Hope that helps.

Wrong. There's one. A kid poisoned by a teacher in China.

 

[Reallyreallyreally]

I looked it up and I think what's going on is that hypoxic brain injury (drastic reduction in oxygen supply) is much slower than anoxic brain injury (sudden shutoff of oxygen supply, kills brain cells in 4 minutes). So in the case of failure, your chances of being okay are higher with this method than with the exit bag. I think anyway. Seems like a good idea to engage two plans simultaneously just in case.

 

[spanishguy22]

I looked it up and I think what's going on is that hypoxic brain injury (drastic reduction in oxygen supply) is much slower than anoxic brain injury (sudden shutoff of oxygen supply, kills brain cells in 4 minutes).

Correct, basically.

 

[squirtsoda]

That makes sense, and definitely leaves the possibility for permanent brain damage if that's the case. Anoxic brain injury happened to me in November, you do not want one. So definitely make sure you get the method right.

 

[Reallyreallyreally]

Correct, basically.

This was in response to the suggestion that anemic hypoxia would be less damaging to brain cells than other kinds of hypoxia, but this doesn't make sense to me. I'm trying to find data. I don't want to make things so much worse that I can't improve them.

That makes sense, and definitely leaves the possibility for permanent brain damage if that's the case. Anoxic brain injury happened to me in November, you do not want one. So definitely make sure you get the method right.

Oh no! How are you doing?

 

[spanishguy22]

This was in response to the suggestion that anemic hypoxia would be less damaging to brain cells than other kinds of hypoxia, but this doesn't make sense to me. I'm trying to find data. I don't want to make things so much worse that I can't improve them.

Well, it does make sense. Oxygen is not fully cut off during anaemic hypoxia, it's just gradually lower and lower. So the brain cells don't take as much damage (but don't believe there's NEVER a chance of it happening like people like to say). Also, pretty important that SN produces nitric oxide, which relaxes blood vessels and improves oxygenation of brain cells under hypoxia.
I'm not sure of this but I think when in severe lack of oxygen the body gives priority to the brain to receive as much as oxygen there's left, so it's the last organ to die. That's why it's highly unlikely for SN to cause severe brain damage, as it usually kills at that point. But not always.

 

[squirtsoda]

This was in response to the suggestion that anemic hypoxia would be less damaging to brain cells than other kinds of hypoxia, but this doesn't make sense to me. I'm trying to find data. I don't want to make things so much worse that I can't improve them.

Oh no! How are you doing?

So...I think it might not be something to do with anemic hypoxia being less damaging, rather if you make it to hospital, you will either live by being given the antidote methylene blue and be fine or you will die because the amount of time they have available to cure you is so short (i know i know...there may be exceptions).

and I'm doing pretty well for what happened, all involved said I should be dead or a vegetable

 

[Reallyreallyreally]

Well, it does make sense. Oxygen is not fully cut off during anaemic hypoxia, it's just gradually lower and lower. So the brain cells don't take as much damage (but don't believe there's NEVER a chance of it happening like people like to say). Also, pretty important that SN produces nitric oxide, which relaxes blood vessels and improves oxygenation of brain cells under hypoxia.
I'm not sure of this but I think when in severe lack of oxygen the body gives priority to the brain to receive as much as oxygen there's left, so it's the last organ to die. That's why it's highly unlikely for SN to cause severe brain damage, as it usually kills at that point. But not always.

This does make sense. Nitric oxide. I'll have to google that while my clothes swirl around getting clean and dry.

 

[Ghost2211]

If done correctly there should be no risk. Also, much like any method I think the key factor is don't get "saved".

 

[protonic76]

below 2 posts have some scientific backing. Unfortunately, the poster is no longer active here, and no they did not ctb

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-what-really-happens-if-you-get-found.27585/#post-498878

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-found-calling-emergencies.27576/#post-498704

 

[spanishguy22]

below 2 posts have some scientific backing. Unfortunately, the poster is no longer active here, and no they did not ctb

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-what-really-happens-if-you-get-found.27585/#post-498878

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-found-calling-emergencies.27576/#post-498704

good posts indeed

 

[Quarky00]

The answer is rather simple What happens in CPR? Your brain dies?
No. Heart/lungs stop working.... The brain is more durable than other organs and can survive lack of oxygen.

Other organs dies first .

It's as simple as that

This methemoglobinemia research paper explains it , it is in the "SN FAQ - Death". This was discussed .

What's the medical state?	anemic hypoxia, "blood fails to deliver oxygen". Tissue slowly dies, but not due to lack of oxygen in cells (like cyanide) or lungs (like suffocation), rather due to 'bad blood'
Is it like suffocation?	No. SN does not deprive oxygen from you body, but to individual cells within your body.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first -- research link at the end See above: brain function continues
What are the chances of coma / becoming vegetable?	Currently 0% , as far as we know: no such documented cases, out of thousands cases of poisoning

If we have thousands of cases and it never happened, then the chances could be 0.001% ... Which for us is like 0% :)

• The China case: not well document , patient case unknown , and it is at the heart of controversial lawsuit ... Not an example .

• Brain injury: after an hour of 6% oxygen level (that is 94% methomoglobinemia- really critical) and recovery -- patient MRI showed temporary damage to globus pallidus (basal ganglia) -- spontanously healed after few days.

"Cranial T2-weighted magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) demonstrated bilateral and symmetrical hyperintense lesions in the globus pallidus (Figure 3). The patient was transferred to the general ward and was subsequently discharged on day 7 without neurologic impairment."

 

[spanishguy22]

The answer is rather simple What happens in CPR? Your brain dies?
No. Heart/lungs stop working.... The brain is more durable than other organs and can survive lack of oxygen.

Other organs dies first .

It's as simple as that

This methemoglobinemia research paper explains it , it is in the "SN FAQ - Death". This was discussed .

What's the medical state?	anemic hypoxia, "blood fails to deliver oxygen". Tissue slowly dies, but not due to lack of oxygen in cells (like cyanide) or lungs (like suffocation), rather due to 'bad blood'
Is it like suffocation?	No. SN does not deprive oxygen from you body, but to individual cells within your body.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first -- research link at the end See above: brain function continues
What are the chances of coma / becoming vegetable?	Currently 0% , as far as we know: no such documented cases, out of thousands cases of poisoning

If we have thousands of cases and it never happened, then the chances could be 0.001% ... Which for us is like 0% :)

• The China case: not well document , patient case unknown , and it is at the heart of controversial lawsuit ... Not an example .

• Brain injury: after an hour of 6% oxygen level (that is 94% methomoglobinemia- really critical) and recovery -- patient MRI showed temporary damage to globus pallidus (basal ganglia) -- spontanously healed after few days.

Good post overall but,
Could you explain further why this article of the kid currently vegetative from SN poisoning is not valid? Genuine interest here.
Article is here : https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...-agree-keep-fight-life-brain-dead-chinese-boy

 

[ThatIsTheQuestion]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK54113/

That gives a pretty good explanation of the types of hypoxia, including anemic hypoxia caused by methemoglobinemia. CO poisoning is also anemic, and it's known to cause permanent brain damage, so there seems to be more to this than the type of hypoxia or just the nature of hypoxia generally. The FDA isn't about to run clinical trials on SN, so without a lot of individual case reports that make it into medical journals that aren't behind paywalls, there may never be a solid answer, at least not soon. SN is my chosen method, but "unheard of" and "impossible" are still two different things.

 

[Quarky00]

Good post overall but,
Could you explain further why this article of the kid currently vegetative from SN poisoning is not valid? Genuine interest here.
Article is here : https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...-agree-keep-fight-life-brain-dead-chinese-boy

You have already asked that, in this thread you opened ;)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/why-does-sn-not-cause-brain-damage.30339/

Explained there several times.

The kid is not vegetative like you wrote, but dead.
This was explained there:

Being brain dead is different than being a vegetable. Vegetables show signs of waking and occasional conciousness. Someone who is brain dead shows no brain function whatsoever and thus could not live long without being on life support. This Chinese person is dead and there is no chance of him coming back which in essence is what you want (i.e. not to be a vegetable).

And already answered here:

not well document , patient case unknown , and it is at the heart of controversial lawsuit

No need to rehash the Chinese case, answers were given :)

 

[spanishguy22]

You have already asked that in this thread YOU opened ;)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/why-does-sn-not-cause-brain-damage.30339/

Explained there several times:



I've already answered this here:




Why do you repeat this Chinese case ;)

There's no need to use all these ;) smileys and act like a general douchebag my friend. I just want information.
This : not well document , patient case unknown , and it is at the heart of controversial lawsuit : which you base all your reply off is a dogshit statement because it doesn't explain anything nor does it prove the article wrong. See, now you're making me respond with hostility. Lets speak like adults, okay?

 

[Quarky00]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK54113/
That gives a pretty good explanation of the types of hypoxia, including anemic hypoxia caused by methemoglobinemia. CO poisoning is also anemic, and it's known to cause permanent brain damage, so there seems to be more to this than the type of hypoxia or just the nature of hypoxia generally. The FDA isn't about to run clinical trials on SN, so without a lot of individual case reports that make it into medical journals that aren't behind paywalls, there may never be a solid answer, at least not soon. SN is my chosen method, but "unheard of" and "impossible" are still two different things.

Because it acts differently.

Anemic hypoxia is not one single process, but description of syndrome.

With CO it is carboxyhemoglobin -- with SN it's methemoglobin -- they bind differently....

 

[hadenough]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-successful-and-unsuccessful.30211/