Can you just be with yourself? Not using something as a distraction, or being completely identified/captured withyour thoughts?

[Groundhog_Day]

I've tried doing many guided meditations on the Waking Up app(1,800 minutes so far), but I just can't seem to observe my thoughts without judgement. My mind produces constant negative thoughts, and I've always either felt extremely anxious from being lost in them, or mainly used something external to distract myself from my thoughts.

My brother who doesn't have a mind that constantly produces negative thoughts, says learning and practicing the meditations on Waking Up has had a huge positive impact. He can access peaceful empty awareness, free from being identified with his thoughts. He says he can drop into this space, whenever he remembers at any point in the day, especially when he notices he is being captured by negative thoughts.

Do you think for some people, accessing peaceful awareness, free from being lost in thoughts, is just not possible? According to the app, I've done 30 hours of meditating, but still can't seem to stop continually being swept away by the contant negative - often suicidal thoughts.

 

[Mooncry]

I'm the same way. My boyfriend insists on the benefits of meditation, and I believe him in that I'm sure it helps many people. But he seems to think that everyone can enter into a meditative state through the typical "close your eyes and empty your mind in complete silence" sort of way, and that's just not true. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that mentality is what may turn a lot of people away from meditation when they realize it's not working for them, so they end up believing they just can't meditate at all.

Truthfully, I think that anyone—including people like us who are constantly negatively judging ourselves and can't view our thoughts through an objective lens—can meditate, just not in the traditional way. I think "traditional" meditation is most likely to work for neurotypical people, which I am not. For me personally, I can't do it in an environment with zero sensory stimulation. I simply cannot clear my mind that way, it doesn't work. It makes my thoughts louder. I need something either visually or auditory going on, or both. Usually that means the combination of a fan and staring into the flame of a candle in complete darkness. The trick is to not have too much stimulation either, but just enough.

Anyway, even with all that said, I still don't meditate because I find it cumbersome and not all that helpful, and truthfully I'd rather do anything else. Also even if I do all the stuff I listed, it's still not a guarantee that my mind will be willing to cooperate with me, which is another reason why I don't bother with it. It just gives me the best odds of success, which still aren't high.

My point is that meditation isn't one size fits all, and you should try different things that work for you if you're genuinely interested in getting into it. Just my two cents.

 

[cemeteryismyhome]

What you're describing sounds like too much work!
I'm fine being alone with my thoughts. That doesn't mean they are pleasant and happy and peaceful. Not at all. But yes I can sit for hours alone with my thoughts. I never get that much time without being bothered. But I could.

 

[Groundhog_Day]

I'm the same way. My boyfriend insists on the benefits of meditation, and I believe him in that I'm sure it helps many people. But he seems to think that everyone can enter into a meditative state through the typical "close your eyes and empty your mind in complete silence" sort of way, and that's just not true. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that mentality is what may turn a lot of people away from meditation when they realize it's not working for them, so they end up believing they just can't meditate at all.

Truthfully, I think that anyone—including people like us who are constantly negatively judging ourselves and can't view our thoughts through an objective lens—can meditate, just not in the traditional way. I think "traditional" meditation is most likely to work for neurotypical people, which I am not. For me personally, I can't do it in an environment with zero sensory stimulation. I simply cannot clear my mind that way, it doesn't work. It makes my thoughts louder. I need something either visually or auditory going on, or both. Usually that means the combination of a fan and staring into the flame of a candle in complete darkness. The trick is to not have too much stimulation either, but just enough.

Anyway, even with all that said, I still don't meditate because I find it cumbersome and not all that helpful, and truthfully I'd rather do anything else. Also even if I do all the stuff I listed, it's still not a guarantee that my mind will be willing to cooperate with me, which is another reason why I don't bother with it. It just gives me the best odds of success, which still aren't high.

My point is that meditation isn't one size fits all, and you should try different things that work for you if you're genuinely interested in getting into it. Just my two cents.

Thanks for this. I think for some people it is much harder to stop identifying with their thoughts. I have avpd and my mind has always produced lots of negative thoughts. They create a strong emotional reaction in my body, with anxiety, etc. Therefore, learning to observe the thoughts as just blips of mental energy, and to become more aware sights, sounds, sensations in my body, in the present moment, feels extremely challenging.

Recently, I've realised just how bad my addiction to distracting myself with my phone is. I probably need to break free from this addiction first, and try meditating again after. Also, like you said other it might be good to try different types of meditating. Sam Harris on the Waking Up app is teaching non-dual meditation where you realise there is just wide open awareness into which everything appears all by itself, with no additional you/self there that has a mind/body/awareness and who is doing meditation. I find it hard to get to this realisation.

 

[CatLvr]

What you're describing sounds like too much work!
I'm fine being alone with my thoughts. That doesn't mean they are pleasant and happy and peaceful. Not at all. But yes I can sit for hours alone with my thoughts. I never get that much time without being bothered. But I could.

I am the same way -- trying to meditate drives me absolutely mad. And if I never spoke to, or saw, another person again as long as I live, I would be fine. People talk too much. Lol

 

[PrettyWhiteFlower]

I can't meditate but last year I basically cut myself off from everything. I spent everyday listening to my fave band and playing power wash simulator. I just let my mind think all my thoughts. If one seemed interesting I thought more on it. It actually really helped me for a short time. I came to the conclusion that to empty your mind of thoughts first you have to listen to them and accept them without any kind of emotional attachment. Then I slipped into some kind of spiritual psychosis and had the best 4 months of my life. Then I came back to reality and I'm back to how I was before.