Can we really objectively evaluate life when we are suffering in such an extreme way?

[noname223]

I am not reallly making that argument. But recently I watched a debate on antinatalism and both found the Benatar version of antinatalism bizarre.
I just imagine this as a popular argument against people on this forum making a case in favor of antinatalism.

One could say maybe we are too much affected by the dark side of life to evaluate the positive and the bad things which life can be full of. We had a negativity bias because most people around us like and appreciate life. They are happy and grateful to exist. We would only see one side.

I don't think that argument is fully convincing. Maybe we (as the people with the worst fates) should be the ones to listen to exactly because we know how bad rock bottom can become. On the other hand I can see where they are coming from. Most people like to live, they enjoy it and they would fully agree that there is way more positive in life than bad. And that they are thankful for being born and consider it as a gift.

Here the debate could go into an assisted suicide direction. I already had such one at exact this argument, When the society and humankind says well there will always be collateral damage at such a great experience why is it made so extremely diffiult for those who don't share that view to give back that "gift". So to make this argument more convincing one had to consider that aspect.

Moreover there are people in this forum who said there was a good time in their life. I cannot make a full judgment on them but I think some argumented that the pain they feel now surpasses the feeling they enjoyed in the past.

I probably should go on with the elaboration but I am so fucking tired. As I said it is not my position. But the argument that only a fringe group of people dislikes life is quite common. The popularity of liberal assisted suicide laws seem to rise. Ecological antinatalism increases. Though the argument there would be more negative than positive in life is by far not shared by the majority.

 

[FuneralCry]

But the truth is that life objectively is suffering. One only has to be aware of the world to recognise this, there are an unlimited amount of ways that existing beings can be tortured and there is so much torment that is being experienced right now. It's a fact, it's not a "negativity bias" recognising this, and those who refuse to recognise suicide as being a rational response to not wanting to endure existence really are delusional. Existence in itself is something that is harmful, as with existing there is risks involved as chance so cruelly determines everything.

As long as one stays here there is simply no limit as to how much they can be tortured and this is the reality. All of these "life is a gift" type beliefs are supported by people so blinded by their privileges and/or delusions to the point that they are unable to have a realistic view on existence. And all of this is why a peaceful exit should be a human right.

 

[CTB Dream]

Objrct Sci logic math tech etcall anti life not even say suffer

 

[Dead Horse]

I'd say that most people belief's that life is something positive doesn't come only from the fact that their life is decent but also from the way we are raised and the toxic positivity that is everywhere nowadays. I feel that there is a kind of fear to even think differently , like it's a "dangerous" way of thinking we've learned to reject immediately, like any thought about death. It's too scary for our survival obsessed brains and too far from what society accepts. I think people would have somewhat different mindsets if they allowed their thoughts to even go there. It's like axioms in maths. "Life is a gift". We don't know why but we must accept it, and we will build any other beliefs upon that.

But to answer your question, I don't believe that a mentally ill person can be exactly objective either. We are too focused on the negatives. I think a person that has suffered a lot in the past but is better now can have a more objective look on life.

In my life, I was unlucky enough to have just a glimpse of some very beautiful things and feelings, just so I can know they exist (I would have no idea otherwise) and be able to spend the rest of my life missing them. I don't know if life is something positive or negative in general. But I'm sure that for some people life is mostly suffering and death is the only relief they can hope for.

 

[Princess777]

Life can be so many things.. i believe there's no Objective evaluation.. also, one only expierences it from one viewpoint anyway… if yours sucks, thats it for you

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Yes, we can. Us suffering is what opens our eyes to how horrible life can be instead of being blissfully ignorant about it.

 

[CTB Dream]

I'd say that most people belief's that life is something positive doesn't come only from the fact that their life is decent but also from the way we are raised and the toxic positivity that is everywhere nowadays. I feel that there is a kind of fear to even think differently , like it's a "dangerous" way of thinking we've learned to reject immediately, like any thought about death. It's too scary for our survival obsessed brains and too far from what society accepts. I think people would have somewhat different mindsets if they allowed their thoughts to even go there. It's like axioms in maths. "Life is a gift". We don't know why but we must accept it, and we will build any other beliefs upon that.

But to answer your question, I don't believe that a mentally ill person can be exactly objective either. We are too focused on the negatives. I think a person that has suffered a lot in the past but is better now can have a more objective look on life.

In my life, I was unlucky enough to have just a glimpse of some very beautiful things and feelings, just so I can know they exist (I would have no idea otherwise) and be able to spend the rest of my life missing them. I don't know if life is something positive or negative in general. But I'm sure that for some people life is mostly suffering and death is the only relief they can hope for.

big diff math sci axm, this human say no sense bas nat lang. Math = abstct even say axm can make more axm infinite loop, exmp peano arthmtc. Sci also axm strong chemy alwayswork. All this axm rely consis. Other say human nonsense nat lang no consis, life gift this not consist axm, this same most nat lang axm, one clear show wrong life gift axm put cntr exmp. Math axm exmp arthmtc work always sld sstm. Most human say no sense can show ease wrong, human no see truth avoid truth