Help Can someone recommend a regulator/flow meter and hose for helium?

[johndoe1954]

Hi

Since helium tanks are easier to come by/procure, can someone recommend a set up?
Helium, since it's lighter than air also seems easier to use with a exit bag vs nitrogen. Correct? Seems to me after expelling oxygen from the bag, if helium is used the bag will stand up and oxygen will remain out of the bag awaiting pulling the bag down as the helium forces it out. But with nitrogen, seems that oxygen might re-enter the bag awaiting pulling the bag down once the nitrogen is pumping. as nitrogen and oxygen are about the same weights?

 

[pane]

Are you talking about industrial helium tanks or the balloon helium tanks?

If it's the balloon tanks, using those isn't recommended anymore because the major companies that supply those tanks have been mixing the helium in them with oxygen for the last several years. This dilutes the helium and makes it unreliable for committing suicide with.

If you're referring to industrial helium that's not really discussed here on SS. Since the move away from the balloon helium tanks in the euthanasia community nitrogen has become the inert gas of choice for suicide so practically all talk here on the forum about the inert gas/bag method involves nitrogen.

 

[johndoe1954]

Of course it would be industrial helium. My concern with nitrogen is that it's not heavier than air so after removing all air how does one ensure no oxygen gets in the bag after the nitrogen flow is turned on?
Apart from MDB, what setup regulator is recommended?

 

[pane]

Of course it would be industrial helium. My concern with nitrogen is that it's not heavier than air so after removing all air how does one ensure no oxygen gets in the bag after the nitrogen flow is turned on?
Apart from MDB, what setup regulator is recommended?

The means for ensuring no oxygen gets into the bag is that once the bag is pulled down over your head you tighten it a little with the drawstring cord or elastic band you've attached to the bag so it's snug around your neck/shoulders but not completely tight.

The nitrogen continuously flowing into the bag is supposed to fill up the space around your head inside the bag and in doing so it prevents any further air from entering the bag through the opening around your neck.

I haven't read up on the exit bag method in awhile but that's what I recall about this aspect of using it.

 

[Lookingforabus]

Basically, the continuous pressure from the flow of inert gas is supposed to keep air from getting in. Draw the bag tight, but not too tight, and the gas flowing out keeps air from flowing in.

 

[johndoe1954]

First you empty the bag of oxygen by rolling it up. Then put on your head/forhead and squish out all the air. (When does one start/turn on the flow of the gas?) Then exhale, pull down and secure on your neck while holding your breath. Then breathe in. Correct?

 

[Lookingforabus]

First you empty the bag of oxygen by rolling it up. Then put on your head/forhead and squish out all the air. (When does one start/turn on the flow of the gas?) Then exhale, pull down and secure on your neck while holding your breath. Then breathe in. Correct?

That's what they say. You turn on the gas after you've secured the bag, but before you breathe in.

 

[pane]

First you empty the bag of oxygen by rolling it up. Then put on your head/forhead and squish out all the air. (When does one start/turn on the flow of the gas?) Then exhale, pull down and secure on your neck while holding your breath. Then breathe in. Correct?

I don't recall any instruction to roll up the bag to get the oxygen out of it either in Five Last Acts or the PPEH but I could be wrong. The steps as I remember them are:

1) Put the bag on your head like a shower cap

2) Turn on the gas and let it fill the bag so it's "standing up" while on your head

3) When the bag is filled after a few minutes you "scrunch" it to purge any remaining air out of it

4) Exhale as deeply and forcefully as you can to expel any remaining oxygen in your lungs

5) Hold your breath, pull the bag down over your head and tighten it around your neck

6) Begin breathing naturally and let the death process occur on its own

 

[Lookingforabus]

Five last Acts does recommend rolling or scrunching the bag to get the air out, and breathing out first. Both serve to minimize the amount of CO2 you'll have in the bag, as CO2 (which creates acidosis in the blood) is what's responsible for the feeling of suffocation.

 

[johndoe1954]

) Turn on the gas and let it fill the bag so it's "standing up" while on your head

If nitrogen is as heavy as air, how will the bag stand up with nitrogen?

) When the bag is filled after a few minutes you "scrunch" it to purge any remaining air out of it

sorry, but how to scrunch a bag that's filled?

My steps would be

1. Roll it up to get air out.

2. Put on forehead and scrunch-am worried about air getting in the bag at this point because unlike helium which is lighter than air nitrogen is not so air may get in. Is that a cause for concern? or is it only CO2 to worry about?

3. Start flow

4. Exhale

5. Pull bag down and secure

6 Breathe in deeply with bag on face....

See no. 2 above re my concern about using nitrogen.

 

[pane]

I just checked my copy of Five Last Acts and the steps I gave are incorrect. You put the bag on your head, scrunch the air out of it THEN let if fill with gas and carry on with the rest of the steps.

My apologies for that error.

I can't address the issue of nitrogen being about the same weight as air and if that would cause any problems with filling the bag while it's on your head. The author of 5LA covers helium and nitrogen in the same section of the book and doesn't make any distinction between the steps you'd follow using helium versus using nitrogen.

 

[johndoe1954]

Yes, right. CAn anyone comment on the risk/problems of air getting in at some point by using nitrogen?

 

[pane]

Yes, right. CAn anyone comment on the risk/problems of air getting in at some point by using nitrogen?

I suspect it's just not a big concern. FWIW, if you read the following thread you'll see a member here named Fister killed himself last week using a nitrogen tank with an 02 regulator and an adapter:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/max-dog-regulator-ridiculous-price.18831

 

[johndoe1954]

I suspect it's just not a big concern

I would think it's a big concern vs helium as nitrogen is heavier than helium therefore more chance air gets in using nitrogen.

 

[Lookingforabus]

I would think it's a big concern vs helium as nitrogen is heavier than helium therefore more chance air gets in using nitrogen.

How would that work? The constant flow of gas will prevent air from coming in through the bottom of the bag anyway, but wouldn't a heavier gas be more inclined to leave the bag through the bottom?

Like I said, it's the pressure from the continuous gas flow that keeps the air out, but even if it wasn't, a heavier gas would do a better job of keeping air from entering the bottom of the bag.

 

[johndoe1954]

wouldn't a heavier gas be more inclined to leave the bag through the bottom?

Exactly. A heavier gas would leave, and air would replace it. In the case of helium, it is lighter than air, so "stops" air from coming in.

So..nitrogen seems riskier, no?

 

[pane]

Exactly. A heavier gas would leave, and air would replace it. In the case of helium, it is lighter than air, so "stops" air from coming in.

So..nitrogen seems riskier, no?

Lookingforabus put it best when he said:

"Basically, the continuous pressure from the flow of inert gas is supposed to keep air from getting in. Draw the bag tight, but not too tight, AND THE GAS FLOWING OUT KEEPS AIR FROM FLOWING IN." (Emphasis added by me)

The minimum size of tank recommended for this is 20 cubic feet which an SS member named Tiredhorse calculated will give about 40 minutes of nitrogen flow. That's more than enough to induce death.

Nitrogen tanks can also be bought in 40- and 60 cubic feet sizes for an even long flow of nitrogen "just to be sure".

 

[Nitromask]

Nitrogen is not heavier than air

 

[johndoe1954]

Nitrogen is not heavier than air

I'd read that somewhere, and also that they were about equal. So, it should be similar to helium then? The bag will "uplift" when filled with the nitrogen?

 

[how2toGetout]

Lookingforabus put it best when he said:

"Basically, the continuous pressure from the flow of inert gas is supposed to keep air from getting in. Draw the bag tight, but not too tight, AND THE GAS FLOWING OUT KEEPS AIR FROM FLOWING IN." (Emphasis added by me)

The minimum size of tank recommended for this is 20 cubic feet which an SS member named Tiredhorse calculated will give about 40 minutes of nitrogen flow. That's more than enough to induce death.

Nitrogen tanks can also be bought in 40- and 60 cubic feet sizes for an even long flow of nitrogen "just to be sure".

@pane,

i have been reading that "40 minutes" is enough to guarantee death (or CTB) in nitrogen method.

A random question came to mind: is 40 minutes really enough for sure?

If someone finds me at 45 minutes after i go under nitrogen hypoxia, and if the exit bag gets removed and resuscitation attempts (e.g. CPR, rescue team coming, etc.) are made, will that thwart the body from guaranteeing ? Is it possible to suffer from brain damage, if i get resuscitated and then somehow the body is not dead completely (i.e. major organs like heart and lungs somehow recovers from temporary dead state)?

What would be the time duration that would guarantee death/ctb? (i.e. the death of major organs like heart and lung; because brain would die for sure before heart and lung, correct me if i'm wrong)

In other words, question is: For how long not being found would be enough to be completely arrive at death?

I tried checking other threads to find answer to the question, such as: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/i-met-death-today.990/post-11284

I also tried reading a quora article like the following regarding this question: https://www.quora.com/Can-inhaling-pure-nitrogen-kill-someone-instantly

In that quora article, the most upvoted answer (that quotes "use Nitrogen safely", Chemical engineering Progress March 2012, p 44–48 ) says about 8 minutes for 100% fatality in 6-8% oxygen environment (which is probably more than the amount of O2 that the exit bag will have after O2 being inhaled or being pushed out by nitrogen coming into the exit bag).

So is a 40 minute really enough for guaranteeing death, based on reading articles & threads like the above ones?

Just trying to mildly question/challenge where the 40 minute time window comes from (i've read about the 40 minute time window, appearing in the first post by @TiredHorse in the **Exit bag and inert gas megathread**: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-and-inert-gas-megathread.8393/).

I can "feel" that 40 minute is not just a number made up randomly, but just want to see where that number originated from or which rationale brought the time window issue to that number.

If anyone could provide/cite more sources to back up the "40 minute", it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[johndoe1954]

Any info on the above?

 

[pane]

I'd read that somewhere, and also that they were about equal. So, it should be similar to helium then? The bag will "uplift" when filled with the nitrogen?

Yes it will, according to the books PPEH and Five Last Acts.

How2toGetout,

I can't cite any sources regarding the "40 minutes" idea. I could very well be wrong in saying this but I think the "takes up to 40 minutes to die" assertion stems from reports of several people committing suicide with inert gas using an oxygen mask like the kind used in hospitals instead of putting a bag over their head. These accounts would most likely be in either the PPEH or the book Five Last Acts.

An 02 mask doesn't provide a good seal to the face and this allows air to get in and mix with the nitrogen, slowing down the process of death. From everything I've read so far you should be dead well before 40 minutes has elapsed if using a bag over your head and followng all the steps correctly.

Regarding the possibility of brain damage, again I may be wrong but my understanding is that brain damage begins after only about 3-5(?) minutes of oxygen deprivation.

If you were found at practically any moment after going unconscious you would likely have suffered brain damaged already. How severe and/or permanent it would be differs from person to person based on various factors is the best I can say. I'm certainly not a doctor or medical researcher and to be honest all I can do is repeat what I've learned from reading what others have said about the subject.