Can doctors or therapists be reasoned with?

[Sunshine]

I never made the experience to get therapy or be in a hospital.
However I know (and it's not a "phase" I had the same opinion for the last 10 years without ever thinking differently) that there is nothing in this life that I want.
I have most things you need for a secure and good life, but I am not interested to continue a human existence.

My question is: If you tell this a doctor or therapist will they STILL enforce their "NOOO YOU HAVE TO LIVE!" view on you? Or would they after a few months allow Euthanasia if you tell them there is simply nothing that you would like to do or have, that there is no interest in a human life and never has been.

 

[Kattt]

You can have the most rational, thought out position known to man and even if they agreed with you on ethical, humanitarian and intellectual grounds, as long as you are their patient and they your healthcare provider, they have a duty of care. Under such circumstances, life is sacrosanct and must be preserved at all costs. Even if there is no doubt that brain death has occurred and the patient is beyond resuscitation, pulling the plug requires jumping through a series of hoops (depending on where it is).

Lots of medical professionals are advocates for euthanasia and even assisted Euthanasia, having witnessed first hand the cruelty of a lingering, painful demise. They get to see vital people full of life, fad away prematurely over a period of time and the fallout this creates all around them. So more than almost anyone, they appreciate the value of such an option.
However, they are well aware of how it could become a tool for the less well intentioned to basically commit murder, under the guise of humanitarianism. History is abundant with examples of this kind of thing.

 

[Sunshine]

You can have the most rational, thought out position known to man and even if they agreed with you on ethical, humanitarian and intellectual grounds, as long as you are their patient and they your healthcare provider, they have a duty of care. Under such circumstances, life is sacrosanct and must be preserved at all costs. Even if there is no doubt that brain death has occurred and the patient is beyond resuscitation, pulling the plug requires jumping through a series of hoops (depending on where it is).

Lots of medical professionals are advocates for euthanasia and even assisted Euthanasia, having witnessed first hand the cruelty of a lingering, painful demise. They get to see vital people full of life, fad away prematurely over a period of time and the fallout this creates all around them. So more than almost anyone, they appreciate the value of such an option.
However, they are well aware of how it could become a tool for the less well intentioned to basically commit murder, under the guise of humanitarianism. History is abundant with examples of this kind of thing.

Does this mean they will just keep you imprisoned in a hospital and pump you full with meds forever until your natural death even if takes 30 years?
If you never change your opinion?

 

[Hollowman]

If you live in the right country you might qualify for euthanasia. Otherwise don't tell them anything.

 

[Kattt]

Does this mean they will just keep you imprisoned in a hospital and pump you full with meds forever until your natural death even if takes 30 years?
If you never change your opinion?

I can't predict the decisions of your personal doctors. That's just the principle upon which the medical profession is based. Valuing life above everything else.
Doctors that perform terminations are sometimes accused of transgressing this tenet, but the procedure is performed in the best interests of both mother and the unborn child.

 

[SmollMushroom]

Depends by the therapist.
My last therapist told me that in his opinion everyone should be able to do what they want with their lives. So he was very open minded about that.
Unfortunately he wasn't as open minded when it came to discuss some of his methods, that's why he dropped me.
At the end of the day, therapists are people too, with their own ideas and mindsets.
You can't say that every therapist thinks this or that, because it changes from one to another.

 

[Scattered-Soul]

I haven't heard of anyone allowing euthanasia to people just because they don't feel like they wanna continue existing. Usually if you say this to any doctor they'd tell you you're depressed or try to find a mental disorder they can diagnose you with, that type of attitude is seen as abnormal and as something that must be fixed so yeah, most doctors enforce their "you have to live and if you don't want to, there's something deeply wrong with you". To be honest, I'm pretty sure that if I were to say "my life's great but I simply don't wanna live and it's been like that for 10 years so I'd like to request euthanasia" to any doctor (ignoring the fact that it's illegal in my country anyway), they'd just laugh at my face because it'd sound ridiculous.

I don't think you'd get committed to a mental hospital but they'd probably push pills and therapy on you, that's all they can do. And when it comes to the people who do get to go through with euthanasia, they're either terminal patients or people with diagnosed mental disorders who've exhausted all of their options which can include all kinds of therapy, medication, TMS, ECT etc. Of course it's not just them but what I'm trying to say is that pretty often you can be someone who's going through incomprehensible suffering and they still wouldn't allow you to die peacefully and with dignity. It's way easier to just take matters in your own hands.

 

[donehere24]

arguably no. unless its like an assisted suicide situation and a physician is willing to help you die so as to not deal with some terrible lifelong condition, then therapists and doctors are trained to disagree and try to "help." theres also the factor of their job security, if its found out that a therapist or doctor supported someone's decision to die and that person did kill themselves then their job would be in jeopardy.

 

[plan c]

Some of them. Not many.
It is worth many trial-and-errors if you're specifically looking for one, while if you're caught in a sudden distress it's not wise to assume that the right psychiatrist to reason with could be the guy answering your call.

 

[Raindancer]

I think you find this in both the physical and mental. It always astonishes me the extent physicians will go to to keep someone live. The suffering to run another test, or another procedure. It reminds me of the quote "just because we can, does that mean we should"

 

[Forever Sleep]

I was hoping I could have a rational conversation with the police that did my welfare check (after the IC SN business.) From the start, I didn't really want to lie. I didn't see the need to. Suicide isn't illegal and neither was SN- I think they're trying to change that now. I found with them at least, you could only go so far though. Suicide as an option against debhilitating illness and frail old age they seemed to be ok with. They were terribly gittery that it was an imminent thing though.

All these people ultimately have a duty of care. If they know we are suicidal and have the means to act on it, they choose to leave us be and we do it- no doubt- questions will be asked of them. Parents and families might start laying blame- 'Why didn't you do more to 'save' or protect my loved one?' I think there is enormous pressure on them to tick boxes and to act on information, regardless of what they may personally feel. Until society becomes more pro-choice and respects the individual. When we don't have such a culture of blame- including possible litigation I expect- I doubt things will change all that much.

I reckon- for a therapist/doctor to be ok with the idea of suicide, they would need to have safeguards in place to protect themselves. Either that the person is indeed beyond all help or I suppose that they are of sound mind and acting alone despite what medical professionals would like. A bit like turning down treatment I suppose.

I just think in a lot of cases though- their mindset is going to be different. For starters- they may believe that having ideation to begin with points to mental illness and an inability to think rationally. Plus, I doubt many of them have a defeatist attitude. They probably believe they can help everyone. Or- the drug that will do it is just around the corner.

 

[ForgottenAgain]

I understand your position, I also have a stable life (job, nice rented house, etc) and I'm unhappy and wish to ctb.

I've spent 16 years in therapy and took medication for some of those years. I don't think they would allow someone euthanasia if their perspective doesn't change. I don't think they would pump you with drugs and therapy either, it's a choice (at least from my experience living in 2 countries).

I think they would diagnose you with a mental illness and suggest treatment. Diagnosis takes some time though, I was diagnosed with BPD months or even a year of therapy later.

If you never tried therapy, it may be worth trying before ctb. There are different kinds of therapy and maybe one will work for you. One can spend years doing poorly without treatment after all, or may never recover because treatment is needed. Finding the right therapist is crucial though, someone who you can relate to. Just something to think about in case you're on the fence about it.

 

[8daysperweek]

Depends on the doctor and medical laws

 

[LonelyKitten]

Does this mean they will just keep you imprisoned in a hospital and pump you full with meds forever until your natural death even if takes 30 years?
If you never change your opinion?

It's really not a matter of logic. Even if it actually makes sense. You know yourself best, of course.
(which is, btw, very difficult to convey to another person. Even if you're right, they either typically have a stake in your life and can't accept it, or they don't and it's too overwhelming a subject)

What's key is the incentives, and the system you are interacting with.
This can vary slightly depending on where you live, but just about anywhere this core remains the same:
The medical professional risks legal trouble if they'd let you die.

In the UK for example, this is called a duty of care. It doesn't matter if dying'd be better for you, and/or everyone around you, and if even the doctors somehow cared enough to have a personal opinion on the matter and agree - they're bound by the system to keep you alive.
Not doing so risks legal consequences for them (I've had one tell me outright they'd risk prison if I died).
And on the more cynical end, even though if in a case it's overall more costly and painful to keep someone alive, there's always someone involved who can benefit financially from this - someone will get paid for the medication, the hospital stay, etc.

So what are common incentives to consider? :
1) Medical professional risks legal consequences. You wouldn't do this yourself for a stranger, either.
2) Hospitalization or medication gets either you or insurance to pay out money. There is far more to gain from someone alive.

There's also the fact they just literally won't have the set-up or capacity to do it for you...
There are unfortunately very few assisted suicide programs, and they typically are only available in their own countries, after following long-winding and difficult processes.

I'm sorry, but in almost any case this is something you would have to take into your own hands.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Why go to therapy or see a psychiatrist if you feel there is nothing for you in life? What do you think they could do?

Some mental health clinicians are open to the idea of suicide. One psychiatrist told me that (online, so not as his patient) that people who truly want to die "should be allowed to." He isn't elaborate what "allowed to" specifically meant. That said, if you see one and say that you are going to CTB when you get home, not a single one is going to let you leave.

Putting aside qualifying for state euthanasia, you don't actually need their validation to CTB.

 

[Kit1]

I never made the experience to get therapy or be in a hospital.
However I know (and it's not a "phase" I had the same opinion for the last 10 years without ever thinking differently) that there is nothing in this life that I want.
I have most things you need for a secure and good life, but I am not interested to continue a human existence.

My question is: If you tell this a doctor or therapist will they STILL enforce their "NOOO YOU HAVE TO LIVE!" view on you? Or would they after a few months allow Euthanasia if you tell them there is simply nothing that you would like to do or have, that there is no interest in a human life and never has been.

In UK, they will never agree to anyone ending their life and if they feel that someone is at risk of ending their life, that person will be admitted to a psychiatric hospital - willingly or unwillingly.

 

[Meditation guide]

Here in Florida they would immediately imprison you by law for a minimum of 3 days in a crazy jail, and I'm sure if you have insurance to pay for a longer stay they would keep you there as long as it pays. So basically it's illegal to say you want to ctb.

 

[Sunshine]

Why go to therapy or see a psychiatrist if you feel there is nothing for you in life? What do you think they could do?

Some mental health clinicians are open to the idea of suicide. One psychiatrist told me that (online, so not as his patient) that people who truly want to die "should be allowed to." He isn't elaborate what "allowed to" specifically meant. That said, if you see one and say that you are going to CTB when you get home, not a single one is going to let you leave.

Putting aside qualifying for state euthanasia, you don't actually need their validation to CTB.

Through doctors you can achieve peaceful euthanization. Dying without traumatizing hotel staff, police or random walkers.
Plus they have the good stuff that guarantees quick and painless 100% death.

 

[notherenotnow]

My friend had a therapist who acted like they agreed with her when she talked about how useless and unbearable living is. Right after that one meeting the therapist put my friend in a psychiatric facility.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Through doctors you can achieve peaceful euthanization. Dying without traumatizing hotel staff, police or random walkers.
Plus they have the good stuff that guarantees quick and painless 100% death.

Euthanasia isn't accessible to most people and they'll require you to go through a lot of treatment before they approve you. They aren't going to prescribe you barbiturates.

 

[livinginhellnation]

It will depend if euthansia is legal in your country and in what particular situation. In the US it is legal in certain states. It is legal in Canada. It will depend on the context. Clearly for the terminally ill and those with quality of life disabilities there will be a process you go through to end your life ie. MAID.

In the UK the doctor will ask you a series of questions on whether you want to ctb. If you answer yes I want to, and yes I made plans the mental health act will mean an ambulance will coming to your location pretty quick.

 

[Sunshine]

Euthanasia isn't accessible to most people and they'll require you to go through a lot of treatment before they approve you. They aren't going to prescribe you barbiturates.

No, but you can only get euthanasia as far as I'm aware if you have doctors and therapists who agree, no?