Venting Call me selfish but I really wish people would just stop having kids right now

[scary]

I know it's never gonna happen, it's instilled in human nature to reproduce and pass your genes, but with the current climate I just wish people would slow down a little. I do get the appeal of wanting to have children, hell even I sometimes wish I could have them, but there's just so much wrong with the world right now on top of the population already being absurdly high.

8 billion is a LOT of people! I don't think we're 'running out' of human life. There's so many poor children in foster care in desperate need of loving homes, but no people need their children to really be 'theirs'. If I wasn't suicidal and had a home of my own I'd love to try an adopt a child, but as we all know getting your own house in the modern day is a nightmare. Everything requires money money money and it's exhausting and terrifying at the same time. People will just pump out children despite not having a lot of money, how do I know this? because my family was very much poor and I have multiple siblings. I still very much remember the days when my parents would worry about whether or not we'll have enough food stamps while our landlord threatened to kick us out.

Again, I do get the appeal, babies are cute and it's a special feeling having something of your own that you created to take care of, but do we really need more people on this planet right now? I don't think I'd consider myself an "anti-natalist" personally, I'm very much a live and let live kind of person as long as you're not hurting anyone, but at the same time there's just so many issues right now, y'know? Also not getting fully into it because frankly it depresses me, but some people are not fit for or deserving of children in the first place.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

There's so many poor children in foster care in desperate need of loving homes, but no people need their children to really be 'theirs'.

Just want to note something that's on topic to your post.

Many foster care kids are actually in the system with the intention of reunification. That's what fostering is, a temporary thing.

That's why a lot of people won't foster (aside from how hard it can be to apply to be a foster home in some places). It's not just "needing them to be their bio kids," it's that most of these foster kids won't be their "kids" forever, or for long at all. And even worse, some people go into the foster care world hoping to adopt these kids—which isn't the point of fostering, and will only lead to stress on the child.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I possibly hold stronger anti-natalist views than you. I do believe it's unfair to create sentient life here and expect it to both thrive and also pay for the choice it never made in the first place.

It's made worse by the reality that- once we are here- no matter how much we may struggle or hate life- our choice to wish to leave this life isn't respected.

It's effectively birthing a being into a lottery but, also a trap if things go badly. Where they're just expected to stay there and suffer. That isn't love- surely? To bring a being somewhere it is in danger from the start is as far away as protecting/ loving it as you can get- to my mind.

I suppose I'm not entirely ardent about it. I don't believe all that many parents are actually malicious. Just, more wishful thinkers perhaps and I suppose, plenty of them may actually be in the right. Their children may grow up to not entirely hate life- even if it was difficult. That said- I don't believe we can regret not being born so- I don't see refraining from procreation as denying a being life that actually wants it.

I absolutely agree with you though. This world is struggling to support the amount of people there are here already. Even for those who don't give a flying f*ck about nature and all the animals that have to try to survive despite us- we're effectively shooting ourselves in the foot by making the planet we depend on too toxic to support us. It would be funny if it wasn't so catastrophic.

I find your title phrasing interesting though. Why is it selfish to not have children? Who is it being selfish towards? The potential child? But- like you say- that could go either way. In a poll I ran here once, around 80% of people here (unsurprisingly) wish they'd never been born to begin with.

So- even though it may be a smaller percentage of the population- there are a number of us that possibly see our being born here as a more selfish act- to fulfil the needs of our parents. Rather than something they even thought through as being beneficial to us. Life has effectively caused many of us harm. Harm our parents would have been aware existed. It's not selfless to put a sentient being in harms way.

Is it selfish towards society to choose not to pop out more wage slaves? Are we depriving the world of potential talent? Again though- that depends on whether you enjoy funding billionaires. I don't enjoy working to effectively make rich people richer. I imagine many of the people at the very top are hugely corrupt. Isn't having children simply creating 'more meat for the grinder'? If not creating more biological slaves is being selfish to the rich elite- I can live with that!

Regarding talent- how talented are we for a start? What type of genes are we likely to pass on? I suppose for those naturally gifted in subjects that could benefit the world. Perhaps a child who has the potential to solve the build up of plastics in the environment problem then- great I guess.

Ultimately though, I think it comes down to how much we admire the human race. While I love the idea that our favourite artists, inventors etc. may pass their talent on- so we always have new things to enjoy- all of it is to benefit humans.

That's pretty much how I see human achievement. Either we do stuff for ourselves. Or, we do stuff to try to limit the damage we've already done! While it's all hugely impressive, it's all hugely damaging too. We are really just one of millions of species on this planet. It's sad that we've thrived at the expense of so many of them.

While a new style of car, space travel, a cure for cancer etc. is all hugely impressive, I'd personally wish that we were fewer in number- maybe had fewer 'achievements' but, hadn't caused so much destruction to get here.

The world is changing though. I think- with increased climate change events, AI taking jobs, knowledge of widespread corruption and brewing conflict, recessions etc. I expect people are actually thinking more about what they are potentially bringing a child in to. I think a lot simply can't afford children too now.

It won't stop everyone of course but, I think things are shifting slightly. I imagine the climate crisis will just get worse too. With major events happening every few months- flooding, hurricanes, fires- it will probably start looking more like various levels of hell. Who wants to bring a child into that?

Just want to note something that's on topic to your post.

Many foster care kids are actually in the system with the intention of reunification. That's what fostering is, a temporary thing.

That's why a lot of people won't foster (aside from how hard it can be to apply to be a foster home in some places). It's not just "needing them to be their bio kids," it's that most of these foster kids won't be their "kids" forever, or for long at all. And even worse, some people go into the foster care world hoping to adopt these kids—which isn't the point of fostering, and will only lead to stress on the child.

I'm curious then. What does happen to these children? Is there a difference between offering to foster a child and adopt it? Surely, not all children are adopted via marriage between one of its parents? Do fostered children go on to be adopted by another couple then?

I feel like it's one of the most altruistic things to do- to raise another person's child. I wonder if it's so different from getting a pet from a shelter. It may already have behavioural issues. It presumably has genetic tendencies you can't really predict- without knowing the parents. I imagine it's pot luck in both directions. Either the child or parents could end up being problematic.

 

[Pluto]

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I'm curious then. What does happen to these children? Is there a difference between offering to foster a child and adopt it? Surely, not all children are adopted via marriage between one of its parents? Do fostered children go on to be adopted by another couple then?

I feel like it's one of the most altruistic things to do- to raise another person's child. I wonder if it's so different from getting a pet from a shelter. It may already have behavioural issues. It presumably has genetic tendencies you can't really predict- without knowing the parents. I imagine it's pot luck in both directions. Either the child or parents could end up being problematic.

The base goal is reunification, for better or for worse. I've heard of kids who go back to abusive families, but I've also heard about kids (particularly lower income ones) who are reunited with their culture, community, family, just in a safer place now. Sometimes it's so a young or teen mom can get education and a job to sustain her, sometimes it's for a parent to get clean off drugs once and for all, etc.

Foster parents can absolutely apply to adopt a kid, but it's an arduous process I've heard.

As for adoption, a lot of adoption is "for profit," surprisingly. I don't know too much about that, so I suggest some videos by adoptees on it. It's most often the situation you described of "not knowing the kid's needs/history." However, other types of adoption are possible. Like I said, foster-to-adopt (I will reiterate that going into fostering with the intent of adoption is self-centered, help the child, not yourself).

The most common type is probably familial, actually! Teen parents often have their kids legally adopted by the kid's grandparents, for example. This definitely can have a lot less trauma during the process because chances are these family members are at least fairly close in culture/area to the bio parent—at least compared to whatever foster parent is currently applying in their state.

I've known many adoptees over the years. All had behavioral issues, but some thrived faster than others. One of the ones with the most severe behavioral problems was from a different country, and came here to be adopted young... I as much as anyone know just how horrible an unstable childhood can be.

 

[Spicy Tteokbokki]

Agreed. I actually feel bad for the child my sister birthed recently, seeing the current state of the world and how it'll end up by the time the child become an adult and older.
Sadly, the way out entire financial system is built up, including pensions and elder care is going to break hard if we don't have enough kids, and because of the state of the world that's going to be a thing anyway if you look into the future far enough, or look at certain countries like e.g. Korea and Japan right now.
It's all a mess and it's only going to get worse.