BrexShit is seriously bad for my mental health....

[JustAboutDone]

Thank God I'm in America and don't have to deal with it firsthand. If anyone wants to come hang out with me for a while and let it blow over just bring some liquor.

Am at Heathrow NOW tell me what liquor to get!

 

[VoloFataliDoce]

Am at Heathrow NOW tell me what liquor to get!

LOL bring a variety, make it top quality!

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

So this campaign is kicking off soon, right? Scotland deserves a re-do after that numbnuts Gordon Brown.

 

[Misanthrope]

I am all for informed decisions but informed decisions require accurate information in the first place. The problem has been both leave and remain have engaged in dishonesty. But that sums up all politics really. Tell lies to suit your agenda. I have no idea what Brexit means for Britain, it is utterly confusing to pick out possibilities from the truth and lies. Since psychics don't exist it is even harder to know the future.

The EU certainly has its share of problems, but my political biases do not let me trust conservative policy to pave roads let alone do anything that benefits your average person that knows what the price of bread is. The cynic in me thinks a lot of this is born out of protecting tax havens and watering down employment and human rights laws. One thing for certain is the scale of ineptitude is painfully visible treating us all with such contempt they don't even try and hide any more. We are just disposable entities to them. While they are busy feathering their own nests as child poverty and homelessness skyrocket.

If I did have the power to take over I would sack every politician across all parties, dissolve the lords and party whips. Reduce expenses to travel. Then implement the ranked choice voting system. Reduce politicians pay to the same as teachers, and make sure policies are costed and are binding in some form with some kind of accountability. Then see who wants to run? Lobbying with incentives would be criminalised and treated as bribery. Politicians would also come under conflict of interest laws, being denied voting on policies that would directly benefit their own personal interests. Lastly, I would contact a local children's debate club and have them take over the role of speaker. That way someone will answer a fucking question when it is put to them. Be obligated to cite their sources of statistics when they pull them out their ass. If they jeer and heckle like it is a damn pantomime while the opposition speaks they get thrown out and repeat offenders fired. Same for if they sleep, come in coked out their skull, or don't turn up at all.

I can dream.. instead I predict ever deepening corruption that condemns future generations to further entrenched free range slavery while we pretend at meaningful democracy under a smokescreen of being glad we are not North Korea...

 

[Johnnythefox]

watering down employment and human rights laws.

It's bewildering the amount of people who don't get this.

 

[Chinaski]

I've pretty much gotten all the Brexit stuff off my chest here:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/tragic-stories.9359/#post-204387

To reiterate, l too voted Remain, but genuinely find it absurd how so many folk are now coming from nowhere to scream about how much of a shitpile Brexit is after enduring nine years of domestic austerity policies. I wish the same ostensibly liberal who now wrap themselves in the European Flag and belt out a full-throated 'Ode To Joy' had not been so indifferent towards an almost decade long agenda of hammering the poorest, stigmatising immigrants, slashing public services, jingoistic sloganeering and generally pandering to the narrative as set by an entirely right-wing media.

Tl;dr - if you're only starting to get angry at the state of UK politics in 2019, and only because of Brexit, you're too fucking late, basically.

 

[Chinaski]

@JustAboutDone Me too, so angry we have no opposition, only the poor Lib Dems who will take years to recover from being used as their fall guys in the collation..Arrggghh

This is an absolute nonsense of a perspective, l must say. The Lib Dems have 7 MPs and can not be considered an "opposition". It's quite clear how successfully their single-issue 'Stop Brexit' manifesto went down in the 2017 general election, this was their second successive GE flop after entering into the coalition in 2010 and, whilst the Sensible Centrist perspective is one which is given undue prominence in the UK media, it's certainly not one which has any public appeal at the minute, and there are many very good reasons for that.

The reality is that there are more Europhile Labour (and even Tory) MPs than there are Lib Dem MPs full stop. Theresa May pushed for a snap GE in 2017 with the expectation that she'd hammer Corbyn's left-wing Labour, get an overwhelming majority, wave her Brexit deal through. Had this occurred, the discussion on the deal wouldn't be happening. Her deal would be it. End of argument.

The reason why this didn't happen, and we're now having parliamentary votes on the issue and are in a position where still, even now, we have multiple options still on the table and the Tories are floundering and threatening a no deal in order to bully parliament, is because whilst some folk who see this trading bloc as the cherished pinnacle of progressive politics sat about and moaned about there not being "an opposition", the left got out, campaigned hard, organised, pounded streets, knocked doors amidst endless Sensible Centrist sniping and phoney liberal apathy to claw back a 25pt poll deficit in just six weeks and removing Theresa's majority. By far the most satisfying election I've been involved in, even though we didn't win. We, the left, in June 2017, did more to stop a Hard Brexit than any of the Sensible Centrists, the types who prioritise cheese importation above public services and happily sell-out a generation of young people for a seat at Davey Cameron's table, have ever done.

 

[Bilbobaggins]

Brexit just speeds things up a bit, collapse I mean. The EU is circling the drain, the US won't be far behind. The world is running low on easily accessible energy supplies. Energy return on energy invested is about to plummet in the next few years. Fracking is a symptom of this. Read Nafeez Ahmed at Insurge Intelligence or Tim Morgan at Surplus Energy Economics. Or Chris Martenson's Crash Course on Youtube for a more generalised American perspective. Economic and energy growth cannot be decoupled and are both about to start failing. We are fed globally by industrial agriculture and oil based shipping/trucking. Medium term we have climate disruption and insects dying out, but won't have to wait that long: When peak net energy hits nuclear war won't be far behind. Brexit is just a symptom of a rapidly accelerating decline. I'm gonna CTB before things get much further down the line.

https://medium.com/insurge-intellig...uropes-slow-burn-energy-collapse-1f520d7e2d89

https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/2018/09/14/135-still-not-wholly-about-brexit/

 

[Letmego. Please]

This is an absolute nonsense of a perspective, l must say. The Lib Dems have 7 MPs and can not be considered an "opposition". It's quite clear how successfully their single-issue 'Stop Brexit' manifesto went down in the 2017 general election, this was their second successive GE flop after entering into the coalition in 2010 and, whilst the Sensible Centrist perspective is one which is given undue prominence in the UK media, it's certainly not one which has any public appeal at the minute, and there are many very good reasons for that.

The reality is that there are more Europhile Labour (and even Tory) MPs than there are Lib Dem MPs full stop. Theresa May pushed for a snap GE in 2017 with the expectation that she'd hammer Corbyn's left-wing Labour, get an overwhelming majority, wave her Brexit deal through. Had this occurred, the discussion on the deal wouldn't be happening. Her deal would be it. End of argument.

The reason why this didn't happen, and we're now having parliamentary votes on the issue and are in a position where still, even now, we have multiple options still on the table and the Tories are floundering and threatening a no deal in order to bully parliament, is because whilst some folk who see this trading bloc as the cherished pinnacle of progressive politics sat about and moaned about there not being "an opposition", the left got out, campaigned hard, organised, pounded streets, knocked doors amidst endless Sensible Centrist sniping and phoney liberal apathy to claw back a 25pt poll deficit in just six weeks and removing Theresa's majority. By far the most satisfying election I've been involved in, even though we didn't win. We, the left, in June 2017, did more to stop a Hard Brexit than any of the Sensible Centrists, the types who prioritise cheese importation above public services and happily sell-out a generation of young people for a seat at Davey Cameron's table, have ever done.

If you referring to my post, then yes the Lib Dems only have naff all Mp's, i know that, i just stated that they were removed as a political party per say by being the Con's fall guys in the 2010 government, i didn't just come out the political closet as a remainer, yes i voted to stay, but i am not ignorant of the problems the whole Eu project has, but when we are in this position, and lets not forget we all voted in a 'advisory' referendum set up only to keep the conservative party together, in doing so pulling apart the seams in our society (the one that know too well the price of bread) as a direct result of Tory & New Labour policies for the last 40 odd yrs that took away every industry that areas relied upon, then a nice nimby policy of housing asylum seekers up north out of the way, plus it was a hell of a lot cheaper, they ignored local councils trying to balance the influx, ignored reports that this was causing issues understandably with the locals, then made it even worse by not even mentioning that we as a country could have had a 8 yr block on the influx of eastern europeans after their countries joined.

But no because all this was deliberate policy decisions that when added to by the hell of austerity, complete run down of local services, the NHS etc meant they knew the can of worms they were opening up.

I am also not a eu flag waving liberal, i don't trust the eu as far as i could throw them, but & a big but is i trust my own government even less, it is they who with their austerity, which by the way will never end in the foreseeable future as they will use this shit as a way of justifying it to their voters divided the country, and all their slogans about helping the working poor, as if, and although i like i nice bit of port it is a luxury as i am one of the demonised skivers who has to undergo humiliating 'medicals' by private companies & get spat as a faking it, i even had some nice people want to chuck me out of my chair in the street to 'prove i could run after them, i might be a southerner but austerity bites the same down here.

Now this may not be as concise or even well put but oddly enough i am a labour voter, as in leftie labour, not New labour, and i was as happy as you about how well the last Ge went, but since then the Tory's have done a brilliant job of making labour unelectable again with the various 'scandals' plus splitting them wider apart into their different leftie/centralist bloc's.

And on the issue of a second referendum what is the problem with just asking folks, regardless of how or why they voted. This is what you will get from leaving is that still what you want? If everybody who voted to leave before did so the same again then whats the problem. We are about to enter into the greatest economic and constitutional change for 40 odd yrs, seems only fair to me to check again thats still what folks want. (And no i am not suggesting some crap where we keep doing this till the ;right' answer is given)

 

[JustAboutDone]

I don't mind jingoism, flag wearing, chanting over Brexit. I don't think it's "too little too late" as I think that anything that gets anyone the slightest bit interested in the political scene is positive. From opening the window a little bit on one subject you can open up a whole new sphere of interest for someone where there wasn't one before.

Having leafleted, knocked on doors and persuaded til my throaty was sore to people in the last two GE to vote, I'm always thrilled when I can help someone find an aspect of politics they can engage with and something that will turn someone from a "never voted in my life I don't care" to someone who finds an interest.

@15dec i admire you for knowing as much as you do know - at your age I was only permitted to know that Margaret Thatcher was some sort of goddess. I had to work the truth out for myself. I'm amazed I didn't have to bow down to some statue of her in the hallway.

 

[Chinaski]

(And no i am not suggesting some crap where we keep doing this till the ;right' answer is given)

But that is pretty much the premise of a second referendum. A majority Tory government was elected in 2015 with the EU referendum as a manifesto pledge. The referendum was won by the Brexiters. Then in 2017 Labour clawed away the Tory majority, thus putting us in the situation we're in now as opposed to one wherein Theresa waves her shite deal through a Tory dominated parliament, but this was only possible due to Labour's 2017 manifesto pledge to honour the referendum result. Had Labour not adopted this position, you'd have Theresa's Brexit right now. The Lib Dems ran on a single issue STOP BREXIT platform in 2017, and were blitzed for the second consecutive election. It could therefore be argued that the public have voted on Brexit three times already, and despite the fact that the Guardian puts three opinion pieces out per day demanding Jeremy Corbyn somehow stops Brexit and supposedly soft Tories are given undue airtime to hawk their dinner-party liberal values by the BBC does not mean there is any public appetite for a second referendum, we should just accept the fact that the electorate often vote for shit things.

 

[Chinaski]

I am very tempted to hang myself on the 29th with my EU passport proudly round my neck.

I am also not a eu flag waving liberal, i don't trust the eu as far as i could throw them,

Which is it?

 

[Letmego. Please]

But that is pretty much the premise of a second referendum

It's not my premise for one, you just assume things about me.

My premise is that yes you may well have asked 3 times as you like to think of it as a basic yes no question.
But it has more consequences than a simple yes/no as asked before, so now all the fluff & cherries has blown off the top of our knickerblokerglory & the reality (that is the real one as published by our own government departments, not some article you think I've read in the Guardian) of what we voted for is slightly different, then tell me how that would be an insult to democracy to just double check that is still what they are will to pay for, because it is us little people who will pay the most, be it further cuts to public services, the opening up of the NHS to the yankee insurance ripoff giants, the years more austerity, lowering of workers rights, which is frightening given how such 'high' standards have allowed things like zero hrs contracts, environmental protections, again frightening given the love in with Fracking, i could go on but i sense you are just going to say I'm parroting something read in a newspaper. God forbid i could have my own thoughts.

Which is it?

Oddly enough it's many things, but if you chose to take them out of the context they were written, in different posts, then ask me a stupid question i would suggest you read them in context and also allow for a person to have a sense of humour or be flippant. Cheers

 

[Chinaski]

It's not my premise for one, you just assume things about me.

My premise is that yes you may well have asked 3 times as you like to think of it as a basic yes no question.

It doesn't matter what your individual premise for a second referendum is - it amounts to the same thing, whichever argument you put forward to justify it the conclusion is inevitably "let's vote again and get it right this time".

 

[Johnnythefox]

 

[Letmego. Please]

It doesn't matter what your individual premise for a second referendum is - it amounts to the same thing, whichever argument you put forward to justify it the conclusion is inevitably "let's vote again and get it right this time".

That sounds a lot like your premise for one.

I started this thread as a way of using humour to highlight how the whole thing is bad for my mental health, your replies have done nothing to improve my mood, nor have you chosen to pick apart anything said by anyone else who has expressed frustration, so as nice as it has been chatting with you, i will not bother anymore as you seem intent on fucking with me for your own pleasure.

 

[Chinaski]

I started this thread as a way of using humour to highlight how the whole thing is bad for my mental health, your replies have done nothing to improve my mood, nor have you chosen to pick apart anything said by anyone else who has expressed frustration, so as nice as it has been chatting with you, i will not bother anymore as you seem intent on fucking with me for your own pleasure.

This is absolutely pathetic, frankly. You started a thread on politics, a topic which is, by definition, going to attract views that differ from yours. You're now positioning as a victim of something-or-other because I'm not in agreement that we have no opposition apart from the poor old Lib Dems. If defending your own political position is too difficult for you atm that's absolutely fair enough, but it's probably for the best that you, like, don't start political threads if that's the case.

 

[Letmego. Please]

It wasn't a flipping "political" thread you nugget.

 

[Chinaski]

It wasn't a flipping "political" thread you nugget.

You might want to read the OP again.

 

[Letmego. Please]

I am the Op, therefore i know in what vein i wrote this thread.

You may have missed all the posts that followed the same humours vein as i guess you don't have a sense of humour, but that still doesn't explain why you wish to jump on my comments but ignore others....

I am all for informed decisions but informed decisions require accurate information in the first place. The problem has been both leave and remain have engaged in dishonesty. But that sums up all politics really. Tell lies to suit your agenda. I have no idea what Brexit means for Britain, it is utterly confusing to pick out possibilities from the truth and lies. Since psychics don't exist it is even harder to know the future.

The EU certainly has its share of problems, but my political biases do not let me trust conservative policy to pave roads let alone do anything that benefits your average person that knows what the price of bread is. The cynic in me thinks a lot of this is born out of protecting tax havens and watering down employment and human rights laws. One thing for certain is the scale of ineptitude is painfully visible treating us all with such contempt they don't even try and hide any more. We are just disposable entities to them. While they are busy feathering their own nests as child poverty and homelessness skyrocket.

I don't mind jingoism, flag wearing, chanting over Brexit. I don't think it's "too little too late"

Or even (said in the same tone as my Op post)

I would go the length and breadth of the Uk with baguettes and cheeses and force everyone to stay.

So go on, tell me again why you feel the need to jump on every out of context thing i have said, but you ignore all other comments.

 

[JustAboutDone]

I am the Op, therefore i know in what vein i wrote this thread.

You may have missed all the posts that followed the same humours vein as i guess you don't have a sense of humour, but that still doesn't explain why you wish to jump on my comments but ignore others....





Or even (said in the same tone as my Op post)


So go on, tell me again why you feel the need to jump on every out of context thing i have said, but you ignore all other comments.

I wouldn't take it as a personal slight @Letmego. Please more the other way round. @Chinaski thinks you are capable of arguing a case - that's quite a compliment.

He knows that I am about as much use as presenting a coherent argument as Ed Sheeran is at writing logical song lyrics (keep you inside the pocket of my ripped jeans urghhh). :-)

I think I put something once in a thread like "wouldn't it be nice if we could go along to the vet and be put down like cats and dogs" and I just got a mild eye roll...

Also @Chinaski is terrified of being of the receiving end of one of my hugggggggssssss

 

[killing me softly]

It doesn't matter what your individual premise for a second referendum is - it amounts to the same thing, whichever argument you put forward to justify it the conclusion is inevitably "let's vote again and get it right this time".

i'm in the US and have only followed Brexit peripherally. however, imo just the fact that it threatens the KFC supply chain merits another vote. you certainly don't want to risk a repeat of last year's chicken shortage.

 

[Chinaski]

I am the Op, therefore i know in what vein i wrote this thread.

You may have missed all the posts that followed the same humours vein as i guess you don't have a sense of humour, but that still doesn't explain why you wish to jump on my comments but ignore others....





Or even (said in the same tone as my Op post)


So go on, tell me again why you feel the need to jump on every out of context thing i have said, but you ignore all other comments.

The OP is a political rant about Brexit specifically which states your political position; l responded to the Brexit discussion generally and then individually to your lament that there is "no opposition" and that the poor old Lib Dems have been somehow badly done to, an observation which is so far from reality it warranted a counter argument.

I'm not sure what the gripe is here, nor am l sure as to what you seek to achieve by reviving it with a post reframing this discussion as bullying conduct, which is clearly what you're attempting to do. This is absolutely pathetic stuff tbh, a shit tactic played badly, wind it in.

 

[brighter]

I am completely incompetent to try and deliver even a half-baked idea about brexit so i'm gonna lighten up the mood with these:

 

[CJM]

Ok ok. Dumb question... But if say the British parliament reject another deal or the EU rejects the terms does that mean the UK will carry on remaining in the EU but in an endless argument?

 

[JustAboutDone]

i'm in the US and have only followed Brexit peripherally. however, imo just the fact that it threatens the KFC supply chain merits another vote. you certainly don't want to risk a repeat of last year's chicken shortage.

This is why you and I can't be tweezer partners. I don't like my food "disguised"
It's got to be straight up, staring-you-in-the-face obvious what it is. Not hidden in The "Colonel's" *secret* recipe.

Though I suppose we could share a bucket thingy. I'll have the chips, sweetcorn and coleslaw, the chocolate fudge cake and the drink. And you could have the whatever-is-hiding-guess-what-it-might-be-sadly-it's-not-pineapple thingy lumpy thing

 

[JustAboutDone]

@killing me softly does your liking that mean we've struck a deal or that you've read my post...

 

[Letmego. Please]

I wouldn't take it as a personal slight @Letmego. Please more the other way round. @Chinaski thinks you are capable of arguing a case - that's quite a compliment.

He knows that I am about as much use as presenting a coherent argument as Ed Sheeran is at writing logical song lyrics (keep you inside the pocket of my ripped jeans urghhh). :-)

I think I put something once in a thread like "wouldn't it be nice if we could go along to the vet and be put down like cats and dogs" and I just got a mild eye roll...

Also @Chinaski is terrified of being of the receiving end of one of my hugggggggssssss

Thanks @JustAboutDone
Your right about Ed and thanks for the needed laugh.

I will try, just some days my brain struggles to concentrate enough.

@killing me softly I have never in my life had a KFC, you guys do know there is more to a chicken than just its legs right lol

And thanks @brighter for bring the conversation back down to the level i intended :-D

@CJM Not a dumb question at all, with the way things are going at the mo i suspect that a fudge will be found to find a slim majority to leave on her crappy deal, regardless of what you think about the Eu, they are mighty pissed off with us now thanks to the idiots 'negotiations' & who would want us sticking around till the May (i think) Eu parliament elections and have bloody Farage still there.
As for what if our parliament doesn't ratify the WD agreement before the 29th, god only knows, but it has to be done realistically by the end of this month for there to be any chance of getting the other needed legislation through parliament (unless they do a double sneaky of pulling the old Henry the 8th trick of bypassing parliament to change the rules without scrutiny)

 

[throwaway123]

Brexit just speeds things up a bit, collapse I mean. The EU is circling the drain, the US won't be far behind. The world is running low on easily accessible energy supplies. Energy return on energy invested is about to plummet in the next few years. Fracking is a symptom of this. Read Nafeez Ahmed at Insurge Intelligence or Tim Morgan at Surplus Energy Economics. Or Chris Martenson's Crash Course on Youtube for a more generalised American perspective. Economic and energy growth cannot be decoupled and are both about to start failing. We are fed globally by industrial agriculture and oil based shipping/trucking. Medium term we have climate disruption and insects dying out, but won't have to wait that long: When peak net energy hits nuclear war won't be far behind. Brexit is just a symptom of a rapidly accelerating decline. I'm gonna CTB before things get much further down the line.

https://medium.com/insurge-intellig...uropes-slow-burn-energy-collapse-1f520d7e2d89

https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/2018/09/14/135-still-not-wholly-about-brexit/

Finally someone who gets it!