BPD and Assisted Suicide

[Samsal112]

I first want to preface this by saying that I have done NO research on this whatsoever, so let's discuss without being condescending or mean.

I saw on TikTok that assisted suicide is now being offered to people with Borderline Personality Disorder. People with BPD are upset about this because the government wants to kill them rather than help them. I have feelings about this. Not really opinions because I do not have anything to back up these thoughts, only that this is what I felt seeing these TikToks.

Firstly, these Tiktoks were also made without any research, and my FYP for whatever reason has so many people with BPD who make tons of videos on their symptoms. These videos were just another way to say, "Woe is me. Can you believe the government wants to kill me?" I am going to safely assume that this new law is not a United States one but a Canadian one. So, the U.S. doesn't want to kill you off...that way at least.

Secondly, I don't believe the government is allowing this because they do not want to keep pushing out disability checks, or they want to kill off all sick-minded people. I think with MAID, lawmakers are starting to witness that there are real reasons for why people want to end their life and it is not just reserved for terminal illnesses. I would assume (maybe not safely) that having BPD does not guarantee you will get assisted suicide. BPD is a spectrum. Therapists and researchers believe that it is a disorder that is trauma-based and that patients with the right help can become less severe. I would think that unless your manic and can literally destroy your life in one episode, you're not going to get assisted suicide. The process for getting assisted suicide is lengthy, so it's not like you can opt to kill yourself on Monday and then be dead on Friday. I would think you would have to make an argument of why your life is worth ending and not every BPD can do that. You would still have to try out meds and therapy, so again, it's not like the government is just killing off all people without first taking some necessary healthcare steps. So, if you can't afford to take the steps then you can't afford assisted suicide and these TikTok creators are saying that since the government won't fix the healthcare system, they'll kill them off instead. You probably can't receive assisted suicide without first having tried the resources available...regardless of how unavailable they may be to one's income or status.

Thirdly, why complain about it? I can't wait until a chronic illness gets some notice and we are able to get assisted suicide. Because it is not terminal, chronic illnesses are never given any thought to why someone would want to end their less-than-desirable life. Be grateful you have a way out if you want it. Also, I am afraid that will all these people being offended, it will no longer be supported for assisted suicide and then other illnesses, whether mental or physical, will not be given much thought.

So, to recap: a patient seeking assisted suicide would have to first go through a long process of arguing that they have the right to die and they will need to first have taken healthcare steps. If you're not getting healthcare, then you're not eligible for assisted suicide (I think). Instead of complaining about assisted suicide, shut up and don't kill yourself. The more people argue against assisted suicide, the less likely it is to progress to a point where more than just the terminally ill get to receive help.

Lastly, I watched a documentary YEARS ago about two girls who were receiving assisted suicide, and they had to go through the channels of healthcare and not make any progress to be eligible for assisted suicide. So, if anything, assisted suicide would help better the healthcare system. If the government doesn't want people to agree to suicide, then the healthcare providers would work harder to provide actual care rather than saying, "idk." Because that idk would be evidence to allow for assisted suicide. Either way, it could be a win win.

 

[Fulminare]

I agree with you a whole lot. I remember watching Children of Men (2006) where they were able to buy a suicide kit called Quietus. Just freely available in the stores. It made me think more deeply about assisted suicide. It is weird to me how chronically ill patients have to argue and argue about why they want to move on, and then they end up not even receiving the right. What's the point?

I think people, especially young people on social media, complain about it because their view of death is widely different than ours (as in the majority of members on SS).
If they have BPD, but are not suicidal, then maybe it feels like their genuine feelings and concerns are being dismissed. Hence all of the hate on TikTok, etc.

But I've got not clue why they would shoot themselves and other cluster B people in the foot. This is a step forward for the community, even if it's not entirely about them. Idk this just rubs me the wrong way, feels like they only want to support non-suicidal members.

 

[SectOfValtiel]

people who suffer from BPD do not *have* manic episodes, at least a majority of us dont
and meds do not exist for personality disorders- not currently, but its still being researched so, maybe in the future
even then most of us that go through the right therapy *will* experience remission, and most of us will experience relapse of symptoms as well
so its not really an easy thing to judge
from what ive read its still extremely hypothetical, theyre still trying to figure out what the criteria would even be for having access to it, but maybe what i read was an older article... but still
BPD is considered one of, if not the most painful mental disorder- but suffering isnt really something easy to quantitate, its really subjective so itd probably come down to the patient and their current psychologist to determine, right?
and i dont assume theres a lot of therapist out there ready to sign someone up for euthanasia- no matter how far they might be gone, at least in the states that goes against most of what theyre taught, so
i guess im not sure if its that much different up there
but maybe it is

i mean i can understand the concerns with providing people with a disorder that has a 70-80% suicide attempt rate access to guaranteed suicide
a lot of us already feel like thats our only option, 10% even go through with it, so... imagine them putting a system in place that basically says
'fuck it, youre not getting better, let us help you kill yourself!'
how is that a good thing? i mean yeah itd be safe access- like i said, basically a guarantee if you qualify
but just because youre suicidal doesnt mean you actually WANT to die... and i think that sentiment is lost on a lot of people here on SS
a lot of us would rather get better if we can
the thought that we never will is probably why so many of us make attempts
besides
imagine suffering so much and trying to go through the right channels only to get frustrated by rejection- something a lot of us are already terrified enough of- so you botch an attempt, and wind up living an even worse life because you werent 'suffering enough' before

i see as many negatives as i do positives really


and not to side track but, really..? how can you ask for a conversation that isnt condescending or mean, but in the same post, tell THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE CONDITION to 'shut up and not kill themselves' when they voice their complaints??? that just seems incredibly insensitive
and if i think anyone has a right to speak on BPD rights, its people with BPD
no, i dont agree with them at all, at least the people youre talking about do seem... really stupid lol, thats some borderline conspiracy shit if youll excuse a slight pun
but still
its their right to have that opinion either way

 

[Samsal112]

people who suffer from BPD do not *have* manic episodes, at least a majority of us dont
and meds do not exist for personality disorders- not currently, but its still being researched so, maybe in the future
even then most of us that go through the right therapy *will* experience remission, and most of us will experience relapse of symptoms as well
so its not really an easy thing to judge
from what ive read its still extremely hypothetical, theyre still trying to figure out what the criteria would even be for having access to it, but maybe what i read was an older article... but still
BPD is considered one of, if not the most painful mental disorder- but suffering isnt really something easy to quantitate, its really subjective so itd probably come down to the patient and their current psychologist to determine, right?
and i dont assume theres a lot of therapist out there ready to sign someone up for euthanasia- no matter how far they might be gone, at least in the states that goes against most of what theyre taught, so
i guess im not sure if its that much different up there
but maybe it is

i mean i can understand the concerns with providing people with a disorder that has a 70-80% suicide attempt rate access to guaranteed suicide
a lot of us already feel like thats our only option, 10% even go through with it, so... imagine them putting a system in place that basically says
'fuck it, youre not getting better, let us help you kill yourself!'
how is that a good thing? i mean yeah itd be safe access- like i said, basically a guarantee if you qualify
but just because youre suicidal doesnt mean you actually WANT to die... and i think that sentiment is lost on a lot of people here on SS
a lot of us would rather get better if we can
the thought that we never will is probably why so many of us make attempts
besides
imagine suffering so much and trying to go through the right channels only to get frustrated by rejection- something a lot of us are already terrified enough of- so you botch an attempt, and wind up living an even worse life because you werent 'suffering enough' before

i see as many negatives as i do positives really


and not to side track but, really..? how can you ask for a conversation that isnt condescending or mean, but in the same post, tell THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE CONDITION to 'shut up and not kill themselves' when they voice their complaints??? that just seems incredibly insensitive
and if i think anyone has a right to speak on BPD rights, its people with BPD
no, i dont agree with them at all, at least the people youre talking about do seem... really stupid lol, thats some borderline conspiracy shit if youll excuse a slight pun
but still
its their right to have that opinion either way

I appreciate the information on BPD. I stand by what I said about shutting up and not killing oneself. This need for people who DON'T want to die to constantly fight against a system that may be beneficial to those who do want to die makes no sense to me. I understand that the connotation of shut up sounds offensive, and it wasn't meant for only those with BPD but for anyone who argues against assisted suicide when it doesn't apply to them if they don't want to die with assistance. You mentioned the suicide rate for those with BPD, which is why MAID is now allowing those with the disorder to be eligible. The suicide rate is high, so this is a way to go out with dignity and say goodbye to loved ones. Then, you contradict your statement by saying that those who attempt do not actually want to die. If someone has attempted suicide, on some conscious level they want to end whatever pain is in their life, and the fact that they survived that attempt is luck; they could easily not have survived and been dead. With assisted suicide, there would be no attempt but there would also not be a survivor with trauma. Actually, I think most of this site is in agreeance that suicidal does not mean that someone wants to die...that's why so many are alive after years of being on this site. Now, if you're referring to people who are succumbed to an illness, whether mental or physical, but would love to live because they understand the importance of life, then I, someone with a chronic illness, agrees with you wholeheartedly! However, I don't want to live in physical pain and I am looking for a way out because my quality of life has greatly decreased. Forums on here record how even something as sure-fire as N has a failure rate and causes the survivor trauma; I am looking for a guarantee. If people with BPD argue against this system which is in place to benefit their disease then lawmakers will see no reason to further eligibility to other marginalized groups such as chronic pain, or those who suffer with the headache known as the suicide headache because sufferers also have a high suicide rate. And you're right, no therapist is going to want to sign off on someone's death. In the US, our healthcare system is so based on money that most physicians or professionals do not have the want or energy to really help, so if you're the one responsible for putting on a document that this person is beyond repair, then you're more than likely to actually try and research. You and I are making the same point.

To be clear, I really appreciate your post! I saw that BPD has mania, so the fact that they don't...probably implies that those people diagnosed themselves lol. I am only responding to clarify my issue with the Tiktoks and responses to not allow it. I spoke with a friend and he can't get behind allowing anyone to end their life with assistance regardless of the pain in it. You may have similar beliefs to him or be a fighter like him. But you did say that this disease is hard to live with, which is why I like to see it now allowed on MAID, which was originally only for terminal illnesses. If we can get to a point where we comprehend (doesn't mean we have to agree) that people are dealing with diseases (mental or physical) that are debilitating then people like me or a couple of others on here can have access to assisted suicide eventually. I have no idea what it is like to live with BPD, just as people do not understand what it is like to live with my chronic pain, and so if someone who doesn't have BPD can say "You know what, I acknowledge your pain and I am ALLOWING you the CHOICE to end your life that isn't painful or traumatizing," then maybe we can eventually get to a point of understanding chronic illness and giving that choice.

 

[SectOfValtiel]

I appreciate the information on BPD. I stand by what I said about shutting up and not killing oneself. This need for people who DON'T want to die to constantly fight against a system that may be beneficial to those who do want to die makes no sense to me. I understand that the connotation of shut up sounds offensive, and it wasn't meant for only those with BPD but for anyone who argues against assisted suicide when it doesn't apply to them if they don't want to die with assistance. You mentioned the suicide rate for those with BPD, which is why MAID is now allowing those with the disorder to be eligible. The suicide rate is high, so this is a way to go out with dignity and say goodbye to loved ones. Then, you contradict your statement by saying that those who attempt do not actually want to die. If someone has attempted suicide, on some conscious level they want to end whatever pain is in their life, and the fact that they survived that attempt is luck; they could easily not have survived and been dead. With assisted suicide, there would be no attempt but there would also not be a survivor with trauma. Actually, I think most of this site is in agreeance that suicidal does not mean that someone wants to die...that's why so many are alive after years of being on this site. Now, if you're referring to people who are succumbed to an illness, whether mental or physical, but would love to live because they understand the importance of life, then I, someone with a chronic illness, agrees with you wholeheartedly! However, I don't want to live in physical pain and I am looking for a way out because my quality of life has greatly decreased. Forums on here record how even something as sure-fire as N has a failure rate and causes the survivor trauma; I am looking for a guarantee. If people with BPD argue against this system which is in place to benefit their disease then lawmakers will see no reason to further eligibility to other marginalized groups such as chronic pain, or those who suffer with the headache known as the suicide headache because sufferers also have a high suicide rate. And you're right, no therapist is going to want to sign off on someone's death. In the US, our healthcare system is so based on money that most physicians or professionals do not have the want or energy to really help, so if you're the one responsible for putting on a document that this person is beyond repair, then you're more than likely to actually try and research. You and I are making the same point.

To be clear, I really appreciate your post! I saw that BPD has mania, so the fact that they don't...probably implies that those people diagnosed themselves lol. I am only responding to clarify my issue with the Tiktoks and responses to not allow it. I spoke with a friend and he can't get behind allowing anyone to end their life with assistance regardless of the pain in it. You may have similar beliefs to him or be a fighter like him. But you did say that this disease is hard to live with, which is why I like to see it now allowed on MAID, which was originally only for terminal illnesses. If we can get to a point where we comprehend (doesn't mean we have to agree) that people are dealing with diseases (mental or physical) that are debilitating then people like me or a couple of others on here can have access to assisted suicide eventually. I have no idea what it is like to live with BPD, just as people do not understand what it is like to live with my chronic pain, and so if someone who doesn't have BPD can say "You know what, I acknowledge your pain and I am ALLOWING you the CHOICE to end your life that isn't painful or traumatizing," then maybe we can eventually get to a point of understanding chronic illness and giving that choice.

and i think thats comparable to telling someone to stop complaining about their lives and kill themselves already
its equally insensitive in my mind, but thats just my own opinion

its not a contradiction at all
just because you come to the conclusion that death is the only solution, does not mean you want to die necessarily
it can mean you want a release from suffering, a release from consequences, a release from the mundane, whatever it may be
it can mean a lot of things and its all subjective based on your own experiences so i can only say for sure my own reasons
but for me its not a desire for death, its a desire for suffering to end
death is just ultimately a possible solution to a problem, thats all
and its an awful, brute-force solution, even if its through the proper channels and handled with care
and thats exactly why i believe making it available is extremely dangerous
*especially* for people so prone to impulsivity as a major symptom of the diagnosis... i think thats where the high attempt rates come from, not just because its hard to live with, and why the success rates are ultimately so much lower

not that im saying its *easy* to live with, im on this site for a reason after all
but there are a lot of worse things that deserve their place on MAiD over it is all im saying

ill at least say youre definitely right in that it still wouldnt be *easy*, theyre treating it with the care that they should
theyre limiting it to only extreme cases and that means a lot of my concerns are answered there, thats something i didnt really understand before reading into it a bit, so
ultimately most of the reasons i oppose it arent really present
but i disagree that taking BPD off MAiD is going to change anyones mind when it comes to a chronic illness, the two are just completely different
its weirder to me that BPD is there but a chronic illness wouldnt be
and in that case, if it *does* lead to those illneses being considered? then i dont think theres a lot of harm in keeping it after all

guess i was looking at it through an offended lens so i apologize


yeah, if theyre experiencing mania thats more a characteristic of bipolar, like thats basically the major difference right there lol
well, and bipolar is a 'mood' disorder kinda like depression is, BPD is a personality disorder, so rather than just mood it also affects thoughts and behaviors pretty heavily
its funny because a few years back id done a bunch of research on bipolar and was close to getting evaluated because i shared a lot of the symptoms (if i do those 'online tests' itll still suggest i might have it lol) but there was also a lot that didnt quite click for me
for one, bipolar people tend to experience a 'cycle' of emotion, from high energy and impulsivity to low energy and extremely depressive, lots of mood swings, and afaik there are meds that are known to work
but for me the low energy extremely depressive with mood swings part is all the time haha i never get those 'highs', never had manic episodes, and never had meds that actually worked
it wasnt until someone mentioned BPD and i started looking into it that things made sense, and i got diagnosed early this year
theyre very similar in some ways and i think both are fairly hard to diagnose so, im not at *all* surprised these people were self-diagnosing
incorrectly lmao, and thats exactly why i waited for a professional opinion to actually run with it as a diagnosis
yeah, woops, forget i ever tried to defend those tiktokers ha... haha... honestly the amount of misdiagnosis that goes on on that app is probably insane

i guess its also important to mention im far from an expert, im having to learn a lot of this myself for the first time as well so
take everything i say with a grain of salt in that case, theres always the chance i have my information wrong
but im trying my best to be accurate- looking it up as i go just to make sure
id also like to say, through and through i take a stance of being pro-choice
in a perfect world nobody would have to CTB, every single awful thing that brought people to that decision would not exist
i think suicide is an awful thing, a terrible brute-force solution just like i said
but i also think we should have a right to that choice if thats where our life has lead
if the choice is to suffer more or to end that suffering, i do think we deserve to end the suffering

at the end of the day thats what i want for everyone
an end to suffering

 

[Wannagonow]

I appreciate all the BPD information and education. I really didn't have a good understanding about it. Knowledge is power as they say. I've been struggling with bipolar disorder forever and taking all different combinations of meds for it since late 80's. I wish meds were the answer for all of us. But life isn't that simple.