Discussion Best position to lie in after ingesting the SN?

[Endisclose]

Hello everyone, there is some confusion as to what the best position is to be in after ingesting the SN. I saw some posts on this forum advising to lie down on the right side. The link below points to the contrary.

"Sleeping on your left can help digestion as gravity will help food move through your intestines. Laying on your right side, back, or stomach can increase your odds of reflux. Getting enough sleep and sleeping and eating at the right times for your body clock will also help improve digestion."

Best Side to Sleep on for Digestion? It’s Not a Side At All

Give your body two to three hours after dinner to digest before sleep. Then, try sleeping on your left side for the best digestion.

www.risescience.com

I initially thought the posts were probably by some pro life people, so ignored it, but then I remembered coming across a similar post by Depressedchemmajor's in his goodbye thread (I can't find it now and I hope I got the name right). I am confused as to why he thought that was good and wonder if he was just mistaken.

Also the pph says to "lay back". I personally thought this was the best thing to do. I have a wedge pillow that has a sort of 45 degree incline to the horizontal. Leaning back and resting on it seems to be the best way to go about it and is my preferred way. I'd like to know your thoughts on this matter.

 

[Macc_Lad_71]

Hello everyone, there is some confusion as to what the best position is to be in after ingesting the SN. I saw some posts on this forum advising to lie down on the right side. The link below points to the contrary.

"Sleeping on your left can help digestion as gravity will help food move through your intestines. Laying on your right side, back, or stomach can increase your odds of reflux. Getting enough sleep and sleeping and eating at the right times for your body clock will also help improve digestion."

Best Side to Sleep on for Digestion? It’s Not a Side At All

Give your body two to three hours after dinner to digest before sleep. Then, try sleeping on your left side for the best digestion.

www.risescience.com

I initially thought the posts were probably by some pro life people, so ignored it, but then I remembered coming across a similar post by Depressedchemmajor's in his goodbye thread (I can't find it now and I hope I got the name right). I am confused as to why he thought that was good and wonder if he was just mistaken.

Also the pph says to "lay back". I personally thought this was the best thing to do. I have a wedge pillow that has a sort of 45 degree incline to the horizontal. Leaning back and resting on it seems to be the best way to go about it and is my preferred way. I'd like to know your thoughts on this matter.

you'll probably be in the fetal position when pain and cramps start to take over !

 

[Endisclose]

you'll probably be in the fetal position when pain and cramps start to take over !

Thanks for the help.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've heard the right side a lot because the opening from the stomach to the intestines is on the right at the base. To me, it makes more sense to be on the right and slightly raised- on pillows or something. To let gravity help also.

Just looking at a diagram of the digestive tract- you can see the opening is on the right. I imagine this drawing is looking at the organs from the front so- left here would be right inside us- if that makes sense?

How Your Gastrointestinal Tract Works

Before you choose weight loss surgery at MU Health Care, we encourage you to learn how your gastrointestinal tract works.

www.muhealth.org

I'm no expert but- that makes sense to me. Not sure why that article recommends that but- it's refering to digesting food I imagine.

 

[Endisclose]

I've heard the right side a lot because the opening from the stomach to the intestines is on the right at the base. To me, it makes more sense to be on the right and slightly raised- on pillows or something. To let gravity help also.

Just looking at a diagram of the digestive tract- you can see the opening is on the right. I imagine this drawing is looking at the organs from the front so- left here would be right inside us- if that makes sense?

How Your Gastrointestinal Tract Works

Before you choose weight loss surgery at MU Health Care, we encourage you to learn how your gastrointestinal tract works.

www.muhealth.org

I'm no expert but- that makes sense to me. Not sure why that article recommends that but- it's refering to digesting food I imagine.

I am not sure I can quite follow that to be honest... The opening of the stomach leading in from the esophagus (the esophageal sphincter) would be at the bottom towards the floor when lying on the person's right and it would be on top lying on the person's left as per my observation of the human anatomy diagram.

Lying on the right might cause the contents of the stomach to spill out back into the esophagus causing reflux and possibly vomitting, whereas lying on the left at least would help keep the contents inside the stomach with the help of gravity..

This is all the more important for people suffering from GERD whose esophageal sphincter is more loose compared to the normal one. I suffer from GERD and I can tell you my symptoms worsen when lying on my right side as acid and food tend to go back up the esophagus causing me to burp horribly every time .

It's relatively better when I lie down on my left side and I've seen several websites advising the same. My preference would be to lean back as I had already stated to avoid any confusion. But I've seen several people advising others, possibly mistakenly, to lie down on their right on this forum and I felt this may be putting others at undue risk of vomitting..

I hope someone can corroborate this or point out any flaw in my reasoning..

 

[Forever Sleep]

I am not sure I can quite follow that to be honest... The opening of the stomach leading in from the esophagus (the esophageal sphincter) would be at the bottom towards the floor when lying on the person's right and it would be on top lying on the person's left as per my observation of the human anatomy diagram.

Lying on the right might cause the contents of the stomach to spill out back into the esophagus causing reflux and possibly vomitting, whereas lying on the left at least would help keep the contents inside the stomach with the help of gravity..

This is all the more important for people suffering from GERD whose esophageal sphincter is more loose compared to the normal one. I suffer from GERD and I can tell you my symptoms worsen when lying on my right side as acid and food tend to go back up the esophagus causing me to burp horribly every time .

It's relatively better when I lie down on my left side and I've seen several websites advising the same. My preference would be to lean back as I had already stated to avoid any confusion. But I've seen several people advising others, possibly mistakenly, to lie down on their right on this forum and I felt this may be putting others at undue risk of vomitting..

I hope someone can corroborate this or point out any flaw in my reasoning..

The esophagus (throat) comes in from the top. The person would need to be upside down to put that at the top. But yes- laying completely flat doesn't seem like a good idea to me either.

It's the duodenum leading into the intestines that we are aiming for- on the bottom right. But- like I mentioned- I wouldn't lie flat anyhow. I'd lay on pillows more upright and on my right side.

But- you know from your own experience what works best for you. I'm no scientist. It just makes more sense to me- looking at the diagram that to get liquid to pour into the bottom right of a container, you sit it down leaning towards the right.

 

[Fktw0rld]

I can't sleep on my right side within a 5 hour window of eating or I'll suffocate from regurgitation. Even longer if I eat anything acidic. It's been roughy 32 years of me suffering from this. I purposely sleep on my left side to prevent it. If I fall asleep and roll over to my right side unknowingly, I'll start having vivid dreams of me in a situation where I can't breathe. I wake up fast and literally can't breathe because all my food has risen back into my throat. I'm unable to swallow or even gasp for air. I have to sit up as fast as possible and force myself into a fit of coughing until I'm able to clear out enough to get short breaths. Usually making my way to the bathroom at that point so I can spit out whatever continues to come up. After about 10 to 15 minutes of this I'm normally clear enough to take a sip of something, get the nasty taste from my system, take a few hits from my inhaler and lay back down.

On my left side.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm not an expert on this but I wonder if lying face down might actually be optimal if you don't have any antiemetics because at least that way if you vomit you could still ensure your death by choking on your own vomit. It's a less dignified way to go but at least it'd be effective.

 

[Endisclose]

The esophagus (throat) comes in from the top. The person would need to be upside down to put that at the top. But yes- laying completely flat doesn't seem like a good idea to me either.

It's the duodenum leading into the intestines that we are aiming for- on the bottom right. But- like I mentioned- I wouldn't lie flat anyhow. I'd lay on pillows more upright and on my right side.

But- you know from your own experience what works best for you. I'm no scientist. It just makes more sense to me- looking at the diagram that to get liquid to pour into the bottom right of a container, you sit it down leaning towards the right.

Yes.. I can see you are concerned about getting the contents through the opening at the bottom right. The logic makes sense when taking that into consideration. But I am afraid, keeping the contents inside the stomach has to be a greater priority shouldn't it?

Oh dear.. this creates a bit of a conundrum for me... Lying on my right side might cause acid reflux and possibly vomitting for me, whereas if I lie on my left side, the contents will have to work their way into the intestines against gravity by the looks of it .

This only makes me more convinced that leaning back is the best option as there is a vertical dimension when leaning back compared to the horizontal one (lying down), which might help gravity keep the contents inside and also help it pass into the intestines..

I wonder if this is just an issue for people like myself and Fktw0rld. One other thing is that the volume of the liquid might be small enough not to create any major issues in normal people, but I am still skeptical that this may be the case.

For me in my past observation, no matter how little I take, I tend to get the burps and have to turn over immediately, and if it causes me to do that, I'd assume the flow of the contents might be the same for another person irrespective of whether it causes them a problem or not as their esophageal sphincter might be tighter and keep the contents in I dunno.. But I am not entirely sure that this can be a good thing..

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes.. I can see you are concerned about getting the contents through the opening at the bottom right. The logic makes sense when taking that into consideration. But I am afraid, keeping the contents inside the stomach has to be a greater priority shouldn't it?

Oh dear.. this creates a bit of a conundrum for me... Lying on my right side might cause acid reflux and possibly vomitting for me, whereas if I lie on my left side, the contents will have to work their way into the intestines against gravity by the looks of it .

This only makes me more convinced that leaning back is the best option as there is a vertical dimension when leaning back compared to the horizontal one (lying down), which might help gravity keep the contents inside and also help it pass into the intestines..

I wonder if this is just an issue for people like myself and Fktw0rld. One other thing is that the volume of the liquid might be small enough not to create any major issues in normal people, but I am still skeptical that this may be the case.

For me in my past observation, no matter how little I take, I tend to get the burps and have to turn over immediately, and if it causes me to do that, I'd assume the flow of the contents might be the same for another person irrespective of whether it causes them a problem or not as their esophageal sphincter might be tighter and keep the contents in I dunno.. But I am not entirely sure that this can be a good thing..

I really don't know to be honest. I do understand your concern with its effects on a struggling digestive system. I worried about the effect of not having a gall bladder and reduced or increased bile (in my case.)

From what I can make out though, the water fast is very important. I get the impression that the body will be so dehydrated that it will absorb the liquid before working out what it is. And obviously, the food fast.

What is your tummy like when you just drink a small amount of water after say waking up and the fast overnight. Do you get reflux then? Maybe you could do some experiments with the same amount of just plain water you would drink to work out which position your own body seems to prefer. I agree though. It's all very worrying.

 

[Ardere]

Simply half sitting, half lying down.

 

[Endisclose]

I really don't know to be honest. I do understand your concern with its effects on a struggling digestive system. I worried about the effect of not having a gall bladder and reduced or increased bile (in my case.)

From what I can make out though, the water fast is very important. I get the impression that the body will be so dehydrated that it will absorb the liquid before working out what it is. And obviously, the food fast.

What is your tummy like when you just drink a small amount of water after say waking up and the fast overnight. Do you get reflux then? Maybe you could do some experiments with the same amount of just plain water you would drink to work out which position your own body seems to prefer. I agree though. It's all very worrying.

I have about 700 ml of water every morning on an empty stomach, which goes down fine without any issues.

Yeah I was just thinking of trying out an orange flavoured glucose based drink (tastes similar to tang) mixed in 50 ml of water in the above mentioned positions and see how it goes..

Trying out 50 ml bitter gourd juice would also be a good practice for the benzos I think. Wonder if the above two would mix well?

I'll just use an extra 50 ml of plain water to be safe without mixing the two. Point of the experiment is to see how 100 ml of liquid goes down best and in which position. I'll post the results once I get it done.

 

[h.s.p.]

The general consensus is lying on your right side. However, this article offers a much more detailed insight: Right recumbent position on gastric emptying of water

AIM: To compare the impact of the right recumbent position with the sitting position on gastric emptying of water.

The percent retention values at 10 min and 15 min were significantly smaller when subjects were in the right recumbent position compared with the seated position.
Our results verified the accelerating effect of the right recumbent position on gastric emptying of non-nutritive solutions.
For patients with gastrointestinal reflux symptoms, sleeping in the right recumbent position may reduce nocturnal symptoms, as delayed gastric emptying can cause reflux symptoms.

CONCLUSION: Gastric emptying of water occurs more quickly when a subject lies on the right side compared with sitting.

Some more from the same source:

The delaying effect of the left recumbent position on gastric emptying of non-caloric liquids has been well documented. However, the evidence that the right recumbent position enhances liquid emptying is much less certain. According to a recent review on the postural effect on gastric emptying, only one trial supports the enhanced emptying of non-nutritive liquids in the right recumbent position, showing that emptying is significantly faster than in the left recumbent position. However, this result only suggests that emptying in the left recumbent position is slower than that in the right.

Burn-Murdoch et al showed that emptying of saline was significantly faster in the right recumbent position than in the left recumbent position whereas it was not significantly different between the right recumbent position and the seated position.

 

[Endisclose]

The general consensus is lying on your right side. However, this article offers a much more detailed insight: Right recumbent position on gastric emptying of water

AIM: To compare the impact of the right recumbent position with the sitting position on gastric emptying of water.

The percent retention values at 10 min and 15 min were significantly smaller when subjects were in the right recumbent position compared with the seated position.
Our results verified the accelerating effect of the right recumbent position on gastric emptying of non-nutritive solutions.
For patients with gastrointestinal reflux symptoms, sleeping in the right recumbent position may reduce nocturnal symptoms, as delayed gastric emptying can cause reflux symptoms.

CONCLUSION: Gastric emptying of water occurs more quickly when a subject lies on the right side compared with sitting.

Some more from the same source:

The delaying effect of the left recumbent position on gastric emptying of non-caloric liquids has been well documented. However, the evidence that the right recumbent position enhances liquid emptying is much less certain. According to a recent review on the postural effect on gastric emptying, only one trial supports the enhanced emptying of non-nutritive liquids in the right recumbent position, showing that emptying is significantly faster than in the left recumbent position. However, this result only suggests that emptying in the left recumbent position is slower than that in the right.

Burn-Murdoch et al showed that emptying of saline was significantly faster in the right recumbent position than in the left recumbent position whereas it was not significantly different between the right recumbent position and the seated position.

Wow.. Thanks for this. I made some experiments on this myself. I took about 100 ml of bitter gourd juice mixed with water and lay down on my right side. I was surprised that I didn't throw up and the stuff did go down. I got a bad headache on that day though, may have been due to other reasons.

I tried it on the left side and I must say, I think the digestion was much faster and better on the right side compared to the left. I've tried it only once and have been meaning to repeat it, but haven't been able to do if as I have a case of laryngitis die to my GERD right now and don't want to risk further possible reflux right now.

I will do further trials and update my observations here as soon as I get better. I've been mostly trying the 45 degree recline on the back on a wedge pillow and that worked, so thought I'll stick to that.

The only concern I have about lying on either side is what if the body weight causes one to turn over after losing consciousness after taking the SN..there can be actions taken to mitigate the risk like placing two pillows under the head and putting the arm out in front such that the elbow is just in front of the chest. The arm has to be clearly in front of the body and will act as a lever to hold the body in place.

The other option is to have the upper body slightly elevated on a wedge pillow, turning to the right, have the right arm out in front, right elbow away from the body with the hand placed beneath the head. A pillow can be placed between the knees and further pillows/support arranged to make sure the body doesn't roll over and one doesn't end up on one's stomach..if one feels this is still risky I guess the 45 to 60 degree incline with the wedge pillow could be the way to go.

I feel with this, one will have to make some experiments and go with the option that feels comfortable to oneself.

 

[h.s.p.]

Wow.. Thanks for this. I made some experiments on this myself. I took about 100 ml of bitter gourd juice mixed with water and lay down on my right side. I was surprised that I didn't throw up and the stuff did go down. I got a bad headache on that day though, may have been due to other reasons.

I tried it on the left side and I must say, I think the digestion was much faster and better on the right side compared to the left. I've tried it only once and have been meaning to repeat it, but haven't been able to do if as I have a case of laryngitis die to my GERD right now and don't want to risk further possible reflux right now.

I will do further trials and update my observations here as soon as I get better. I've been mostly trying the 45 degree recline on the back on a wedge pillow and that worked, so thought I'll stick to that.

The only concern I have about lying on either side is what if the body weight causes one to turn over after losing consciousness after taking the SN..there can be actions taken to mitigate the risk like placing two pillows under the head and putting the arm out in front such that the elbow is just in front of the chest. The arm has to be clearly in front of the body and will act as a lever to hold the body in place.

The other option is to have the upper body slightly elevated on a wedge pillow, turning to the right, have the right arm out in front, right elbow away from the body with the hand placed beneath the head. A pillow can be placed between the knees and further pillows/support arranged to make sure the body doesn't roll over and one doesn't end up on one's stomach..if one feels this is still risky I guess the 45 to 60 degree incline with the wedge pillow could be the way to go.

I feel with this, one will have to make some experiments and go with the option that feels comfortable to oneself.

I'm glad you found this article interesting. This is by no means exact science, just a research I've come across, but the source seems to be very reliable. However, keep in mind that this research was conducted on individuals who did not suffer from gastrointestinal conditions. Although the sentence For patients with gastrointestinal reflux symptoms, sleeping in the right recumbent position may reduce nocturnal symptoms, as delayed gastric emptying can cause reflux symptoms, I think you know your own body better than anyone.
So yes, please do your own experiments and keep this thread updated if you wish, I'd be interesting.
As for the body changing position after passing out, I think it wouldn't matter, you would have well absorbed the water by then. People have fallen off the bed and still passed away.

 

[Endisclose]

I'm glad you found this article interesting. This is by no means exact science, just a research I've come across, but the source seems to be very reliable. However, keep in mind that this research was conducted on individuals who did not suffer from gastrointestinal conditions. Although the sentence For patients with gastrointestinal reflux symptoms, sleeping in the right recumbent position may reduce nocturnal symptoms, as delayed gastric emptying can cause reflux symptoms, I think you know your own body better than anyone.
So yes, please do your own experiments and keep this thread updated if you wish, I'd be interesting.
As for the body changing position after passing out, I think it wouldn't matter, you would have well absorbed the water by then. People have fallen off the bed and still passed away.

It definitely was very interesting. There is a strong case for turning to the right while keeping the upper body elevated on a wedge pillow. I have to say I presumed wrongly that some people were trying to mislead others when I read this on the forum, because I had read previously that lying on the left was better for digestion and lying on the right wasn't advised, and my experience bore this out as well, but I guess this was in relation to food rather than small quantities of medicated solutions..

My only concern about the recumbent position on the right was the contents spilling out of the stomach as the oesophagal sphincter would be towards the bottom facing downwards.. but somehow this didn't create any reflux/vomitting when I tried it once.. Maybe because the volume of liquid was small or maybe there is a small enough gradient/incline to keep that volume of water down..? I'll definitely make more experiments and post the results here..

 

[h.s.p.]

It definitely was very interesting. There is a strong case for turning to the right while keeping the upper body elevated on a wedge pillow. I have to say I presumed wrongly that some people were trying to mislead others when I read this on the forum, because I had read previously that lying on the left was better for digestion and lying on the right wasn't advised, and my experience bore this out as well, but I guess this was in relation to food rather than small quantities of medicated solutions..

Yes, this article focus specifically on gastric emptying of water, so it's very suitable for the SN method.

My only concern about the recumbent position on the right was the contents spilling out of the stomach as the oesophagal sphincter would be towards the bottom facing downwards.. but somehow this didn't create any reflux/vomitting when I tried it once.. Maybe because the volume of liquid was small or maybe there is a small enough gradient/incline to keep that volume of water down..? I'll definitely make more experiments and post the results here..

I only had mild GERD occasionally but it was stress-related and not a chronic condition. It never bothered me while laying down so I have no experience. Your experiments would make this thread much more useful for those with gastrointestinal conditions