Before and After life

[greyhound]

I just finished reading these two books over the holidays:

"After: A Doctor Explores What Near-Death Experiences Reveal about Life and Beyond
by Bruce Greyson"

After

The world's leading expert on near-death experiences reveals his journey toward rethinking the nature of death, life, and the continuity ...

www.goodreads.com

"Life Before Life: A Scientific Investigation of Children's Memories of Previous Lives
by Jim B. Tucker"

Life Before Life

For the past forty years, doctors at the University of Virginia Medical Center have conducted research into young children’s reports of p...

www.goodreads.com

It's amazing to me that the evidence presented in these books is not more widely known / taught. Anyone reading them with a reasonably open mind I think would have to conclude that there is more going on than what the materialist / physicalist worldview can support.

I think we must be in a sort of simulation world where we have life experiences and try to learn from them over the course of multiple lifetimes. However the simulation can be quite harsh and many people find themselves in circumstances where exiting their current situation is the most reasonable thing to do.

The current paradigm is either a hyper materialist scientific view where suicide is seen as completely irrational, or a western religion one where we only get one life and also are sort of the property of God and as such cannot choose our own fates. Either view leads to sites like SS being violently attacked like what we're seeing lately.

I hope the future world is one where we realize that our physical body is just a temporary home for our souls and suicide becomes seen an acceptable and rational choice when this home no longer serves us.

 

[Ta555]

I just finished reading these two books over the holidays:

"After: A Doctor Explores What Near-Death Experiences Reveal about Life and Beyond
by Bruce Greyson"

After

The world's leading expert on near-death experiences reveals his journey toward rethinking the nature of death, life, and the continuity ...

www.goodreads.com

"Life Before Life: A Scientific Investigation of Children's Memories of Previous Lives
by Jim B. Tucker"

Life Before Life

For the past forty years, doctors at the University of Virginia Medical Center have conducted research into young children’s reports of p...

www.goodreads.com

It's amazing to me that the evidence presented in these books is not more widely known / taught. Anyone reading them with a reasonably open mind I think would have to conclude that there is more going on than what the materialist / physicalist worldview can support.

I think we must be in a sort of simulation world where we have life experiences and try to learn from them over the course of multiple lifetimes. However the simulation can be quite harsh and many people find themselves in circumstances where exiting their current situation is the most reasonable thing to do.

The current paradigm is either a hyper materialist scientific view where suicide is seen as completely irrational, or a western religion one where we only get one life and also are sort of the property of God and as such cannot choose our own fates. Either view leads to sites like SS being violently attacked like what we're seeing lately.

I hope the future world is one where we realize that our physical body is just a temporary home for our souls and suicide becomes seen an acceptable and rational choice when this home no longer serves us.

There is no credible scientific evidence that there is anything after death. I've already talked at length about this on another thread but near death experiences are just hallucinations by a brain that's fighting to not switch off. No one has actually been completely brain-dead and come back to tell us about it. NDEs can very easily be explained by a brain in chemical and electrical panic.
As far as respectable science can tell, there is nothing once the brain switches off completely.

 

[greyhound]

There is no credible scientific evidence that there is anything after death. I've already talked at length about this on another thread but near death experiences are just hallucinations by a brain that's fighting to not switch off. No one has actually been completely brain-dead and come back to tell us about it. NDEs can very easily be explained by a brain in chemical and electrical panic.
As far as respectable science can tell, there is nothing once the brain switches off completely.

NDEs are known to occur during cardiac arrest during which no conscious experience should be possible after 10-15 seconds. Yes there may be some residual brain activity but nothing that would support full blown consciousness similar to what occurs during NDEs.

The regular features of NDEs that occur over and over like the life review need some kind of other explanation. People describe perceiving every event in their life but from vantage points like a camera moving throughout the scene. One guy described feeling getting beaten up by himself from the perspective of the other guy. Many describe witnessing the scenes from the other person's viewpoint, feeling the other's emotions evoked by their own actions. To me this all points to us being in a simulation. None of it is ironclad scientific proof, but is extremely suggestive that there is more to reality than the materialist narrative.

 

[Ta555]

NDEs are known to occur during cardiac arrest during which no conscious experience should be possible after 10-15 seconds. Yes there may be some residual brain activity but nothing that would support full blown consciousness similar to what occurs during NDEs.

The regular features of NDEs that occur over and over like the life review need some kind of other explanation. People describe perceiving every event in their life but from vantage points like a camera moving throughout the scene. One guy described feeling getting beaten up by himself from the perspective of the other guy. Many describe witnessing the scenes from the other person's viewpoint, feeling the other's emotions evoked by their own actions. To me this all points to us being in a simulation. None of it is ironclad scientific proof, but is extremely suggestive that there is more to reality than the materialist narrative.

Exactly my point. The brain is still working to some extent. So it's not like coming back from the dead.
Also, it's weird how people always perceive things from their own religions eh? You'd think of there was an afterlife it would be the same for everyone. And yet Christians talk about seeing Jesus, Muslims about Allah and so on and so forth.

 

[greyhound]

Exactly my point. The brain is still working to some extent. So it's not like coming back from the dead.
Also, it's weird how people always perceive things from their own religions eh? You'd think of there was an afterlife it would be the same for everyone. And yet Christians talk about seeing Jesus, Muslims about Allah and so on and so forth.

The point is that in cardiac arrest the brain stops receiving blood flow and brain wave activity ceases. Trace activity is not enough to produce consciousness, let alone experiences that the experiencers suggest are the most real thing they've ever experienced. Afterwards most if not all completely lose their fear of death, which suggests that something profound is happening beyond a brain that's just fighting for survival.

If you combine all these disparate lines of evidence then a picture starts to emerge that is extremely suggestive that more is going on in reality. The reincarnation evidence alone is very compelling. It's extremely difficult to come up with an explanation that would allow for these children to somehow recollect intimate details of some individual's life, and become convinced they themselves were that person.

Sure God appears in different guises to different people when they die. If it's a simulation why wouldn't the simulation designer just appear to the person in a form that was most intelligible to them?

 

[Ta555]

The point is that in cardiac arrest the brain stops receiving blood flow and brain wave activity ceases. Trace activity is not enough to produce consciousness, let alone experiences that the experiencers suggest are the most real thing they've ever experienced. Afterwards most if not all completely lose their fear of death, which suggests that something profound is happening beyond a brain that's just fighting for survival.

If you combine all these disparate lines of evidence then a picture starts to emerge that is extremely suggestive that more is going on in reality. The reincarnation evidence alone is very compelling. It's extremely difficult to come up with an explanation that would allow for these children to somehow recollect intimate details of some individual's life, and become convinced they themselves were that person.

Sure God appears in different guises to different people when they die. If it's a simulation why wouldn't the simulation designer just appear to the person in a form that was most intelligible to them?

I disagree with you profoundly and so I'll just gracefully bow out of this discussion because we'll never convince each other of anything.

 

[Pluto]

It's amazing to me that the evidence presented in these books is not more widely known / taught. Anyone reading them with a reasonably open mind I think would have to conclude that there is more going on than what the materialist / physicalist worldview can support.

I've researched NDEs for a couple of decades or so. Agree 100% with your comments. The taboos around this prevent us from discarding so much erroneous religious and cultural baggage.

The most convincing evidence is the numerous accounts of people having out-of-body experiences while flatlining, and later being able to accurately recall conversations that happened in other rooms, all verified by medial professionals. Beyond this, I refuse to engage in debate with atheists as it is no different to trying in futility to convince any other religious fanatic that they don't know it all. No disrespect.

One guy described feeling getting beaten up by himself from the perspective of the other guy.

Was that the guy who attacked the other guy in a road rage attack? And he could taste the blood in his mouth during the life review? If so, I think I saw his interview in a documentary.

 

[Amumu]

The most convincing evidence is the numerous accounts of people having out-of-body experiences while flatlining, and later being able to accurately recall conversations that happened in other rooms, all verified by medial professionals. Beyond this, I refuse to engage in debate with atheists as it is no different to trying in futility to convince any other religious fanatic that they don't know it all. No disrespect.

Yet this is disrespectful friend, I could say the same thing about spiritual people you wouldn't feel good.

Take care.

Spoiler: My opinion about NDEs

The authors probably want to make money with their books. They perfectly know that the human animal is and has always been superstitious, and don't necessarily believe in what they say. NDEs are probably caused by the limbic system, yet I remain open to other explanations, despite being a staunch atheist. About the authors :

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bruce_Greyson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_B._Tucker

 

[Pluto]

Yet this is disrespectful friend, I could say the same thing about spiritual people you wouldn't feel good.

I would have liked to communicate with the OP with whom I share a minority viewpoint, without the thread being derailed. But instead, I will exit and unsubscribe from this thread out of respect. All the best.

 

[Meditation guide]

Consciousness is separate from the brain and physical body. Yes kids have memories of previous lives sometimes. I have my own experiences with this, enough to let me know it's real. And yes it's a type of dreamworld we live in. Time is an illusion. Don't expect to understand it. I know it's hard to believe. But so are a lot of religions, which don't have much to go on either.