Babies born disabled

[drownll]

In the old times, babies born severely malformed were thrown off a clif. Today you'd be seen as an evil monster if you'd do that.
Am I the only one who prefer the ancient method?
Why condemning an innocent soul into a long and miserable painful life?

 

[Wehmut]

I somewhat agree with you prefering the old method. Also...why force an entire existence on someone anyways. Just leave the hypothetical kids in the void forever!

 

[Darkover]

when i've been sectioned a few time i've seen some severely disabled people in there two of them couldn't even talk or walk by themselves without guidance, after seeing the state some people are kept alive in i can't help but feel terriblely sorry for them i know if that was me i'd rather be put down instead of having to live like that, that's why euthanasia for everyone should be a universal right

 

[LikeAPendulum]

Why would you pour so much time and money into a defect whos condemned to be strapped in a wheelchair, at best just staring into space with their mouths agape, when you can try again for a perfect, healthy child who can raise perfect, healthy grandchildren?

 

[アホペンギン]

Why even bring them into the world at all? There is unlimited potential to suffer endlessly in this world because of one misfortune that has happened to you. In those babies' case, birth. I would prefer the ancient method but the most desirable and preferable method is just letting those poor souls stay safe wherever they are before birth.

 

[conarc]

$$$ is the sad answer why this is no longer happening. A peaceful death would be the best option for these poor souls.

 

[アホペンギン]

Why would you pour so much time and money into a defect whos condemned to be strapped in a wheelchair, at best just staring into space with their mouths agape, when you can try again for a perfect, healthy child who can raise perfect, healthy grandchildren?

This reminds me of something, many years ago I came across a disabled person who was just as you explained, staring into space with their mouth open and I confronted their family about why they are keeping that person alive and they said exactly this: "He is a human, it is cruel to make them die. He is enjoying his life." (Something like that, I don't exactly remember and there may also be translation errors as well) But, it is cruel to keep him alive! They don't even know how he thinks about his life or what is running through his mind. What makes them think they have full authority!? It's disgusting, actually…

 

[leloyon]

I have become increasingly frustrated with people who argue against eugenics and claim it is fascist. The truth is that some people are born unlucky and we can easily see they are going to have a bad time in life, I would rather be considered a fascist for making sure they don't have to suffer than subject them to the inevitable and get a few pats on the back.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just find it so disgusting how they were forced into this hellish reality in the first place, nobody should ever have to be tormented by existence and nobody should ever have to die, the non-existent should be left alone in peace, I wish humans were compassionate enough to let this species go voluntarily extinct.

Existence is just so harmful, it will always be criminal to me burdening one with the ability to be tortured endlessly in this unnecessary existence, it's tragic how there is so much suffering, there should just be nothingness instead.

 

[AllFoxedOut]

$$$ is the sad answer why this is no longer happening. A peaceful death would be the best option for these poor souls.

as a person with lived experience being disabled, I find this argument unconvincing. I've cost my government more in welfare, hospital stays and socialised disability insurance than I ever will be capable of paying back in income tax. I feel if their reasoning was monetary, they would gladly accept my death wish. hell, they probably wouldn't even give me a choice.

 

[MeltingBrain]

In the old times, babies born severely malformed were thrown off a clif. Today you'd be seen as an evil monster if you'd do that.

It's debated by philosophers ,thinkers and many societies over the years. Thinking about it is not evil and completely rational . That being said , ultimately I think it's immoral based on two grounds. -
1. Everybody views life differently . A limp or a blind infant may enjoy life to the fullest after growing up. Keep in mind being blind is a normal state for them .
2. Consent and mental development. It feels wrong to take away the most important decision about themself away from themself OR to make that decision hastily before they have sufficient mental acuity to weigh the pros/cons .

Some of the debate has already been resolved by early detection of anomalies at very early stage of pregnancy using ultrasound followed by an abortion (Although there are many conservatives in countries like USA and some African countries who are trying to overturn this too) .

 

[conarc]

Every human in this world is kept alive as long as possible to earn as much as possible. Its not only the government but also thousands of companies who produce special products for disabled. And dont forget the pharma industry. Even government gets some money back via taxes and other spendings.

If people could easily choose euthanasia many companies would close and governments would loose money.

 

[front of me]

There are more happy disabled people than you and me. Please do not generalize

 

[disabledlife]

Je suis de plus en plus frustré par les gens qui s'opposent à l'eugénisme et prétendent qu'il est fasciste. La vérité est que certaines personnes naissent malchanceuses et on peut facilement voir qu'elles vont passer un mauvais moment dans la vie, je préfère être considéré comme un fasciste pour avoir veillé à ce qu'ils n'aient pas à souffrir plutôt que de les soumettre à l'inévitable et d'obtenir quelques tapes dans le dos.

What motivates you to CTB? Social networks? The multinationals? Capitalism? Disabilities? Shitty parents? Your country? Unjust laws?

Who wants (be forced to) CTB because of social networks, injustices, multinationals, humans, birth inequalities,...? I give you my points of view and what pushes me to CTB. I want CTB because I was mistreated young, and I was never able to obtain justice, because of my country, the worst in...

sanctioned-suicide.net

In this thread, I got yelled at by someone when I talked about eugenics in detail, the reasons why I'm in favor of eugenics, my shitty life...

I was treated like trash, a child who never grew up...

I have been called pro-life when I am absolutely pro-choice! Eugenics has nothing to do with the choice of the end of life, which must be the ultimate freedom. Eugenics only wants to prevent children from being born disabled, for example, to prevent everyone from being condemned, from birth, to a life of discrimination, rejection, inferiority, deprived of the freedom to see, hear, walk, exercise. a job, etc., and even find love, because, contrary to what toxic positivity suggests, it is impossible for a disabled person to have a dignified life, to have friends, to find love, housing, access to higher education, etc!!! So yes, there are exceptions of a few, but very rare, disabled people, who have succeeded in life, studies, professions..., these exceptions certainly do not represent the majority of disabled people! And I'm tired of hearing these sentences: "You see, this disabled person has succeeded in life, you must live!", "You see, this disabled person has succeeded in life, you must procreate even if you know that you're going to create a handicapped person!"...

And even there, the people, I repeat, very rare, who have succeeded in life despite their handicaps, will never be able to do all the jobs, access certain places, countries, etc. A colorblind person will never have access to many engineering, tech, etc. jobs. A short person will never have the right to become a model, play in basketball competitions, be discriminated against, paid less than others at their job...

There are countries which refuse, on their territory, disabled people, which they call excessive burdens, for example, Canada and Australia! There are people born with AIDS, thanks to their parents, who knew their children were going to have AIDS, but who procreated. These children will be prohibited from entering 17 countries, will be discriminated against, laws will restrict their freedoms, unlike the rest of the population, and everywhere in the world!

I'm tired of putting up with anti-eugenics people who pretend to be vigilantes, these people are pushing me to CTB damn it! It's just a matter of common sense.

 

[UKscotty]

Sounds like some of the folks here along in China.

A lot of disabled people love life and thrive. How can you say they should all be put down?

Suffering is subjective, some refuse to suffer and rise up from it and make the best of what they have.

 

[disabledlife]

Not slaughtered, nor killed, but not born, let their births be avoided, for their own good, it is a duty in my opinion. I would never want to inflict pain on anyone for no reason! The possibility of possibly causing someone to suffer is justice or revenge (or law of Talio), against a person who has been wicked, robbed, raped, burglarized, harassed, destroyed his neighbor, it is the principle of the punishment.

On the other hand, to procreate voluntarily, to have a disabled child, is to punish him "for free", to harm him, I would be mean to do that.

A person already born disabled, or healthy, or already born simply, will be the only one to decide for his own life, whether he wants to live, how to live, or, if not, leave life, at his convenience.

But, on the other hand, we can never ask if a person wants (or does not want) to be created, to be born, to exist, etc., it is simply impossible. Impossible because, paradoxically, we must already create it, give birth to it, wait for it to be conscious, to ask it this question! But, inevitably, paradoxically, it is already too late, she has already been born! So.

So, since, logically, no one asked to be born, we must make the effort to inflict (yes, inflict!) life on people but on condition of doing it equally, so that everyone can be born as equal as possible, so that everyone has exactly the same chances of succeeding in life, studying, living with dignity, having good parents, etc. I do not find it normal that we inflict, voluntarily in some way, on a minority of people (10% according to the UN of disabled people worldwide, 15% according to the WHO), procreation, disabled birth, harmful birth , a detrimental life!

You know, in some countries it is possible for a child, parent, to sue their parents, pediatricians, doctors, families, in court, obtain damages, in the name of harmful birth and harmful life. So, in fact, eugenics is justice, for the unborn. Other countries which do not allow such legal proceedings (the only alternative to eugenics) are imbecile, cruel, do not respect the victims of bad births! It's the same thing for countries that have not legalized CTB, euthanasia, and assisted suicide, it's cruel!

 

[CPY]

Well most of them are not even aware they're here at all so in a sense they are already dead

For the ones who are they should choose what to do with their life

 

[Slow_Farewell]

Personally, comparing to what came before isn't really a good starting point for this, in my opinion.
China instituted a one child policy before, based on their cultural needs at the time. We may find it abhorrent now, but whose call is it to make, really?
Fine, you can make the point that it's for babies who have a defect that could prevent having a certain quality of life. That is true, and you'll get no rebuttal from me there. I think, however, that there should be a clear definition of something that has no known solution - thus strengthening the position that their quality of life would indeed be terrible for the rest of their existence OR is it something that may have a possible solution in the near future.
Let me give you an example:
There was a time when some children were born with cleft palates. Now, if we were to apply the old rules, they would be under severely malformed and thrown off a cliff. Today, however, cleft palates can and are treated, and the majority of these kids grow up to lead normal lives.
Personally, ending a life, regardless of what stage of cell mutation/formation is in, isn't something people are equipped to decide on. Similar to keeps being stated in replies and posts in this form "suicide an individual's choice".

 

[stuckinthemud]

Depends what the disability is I guess and how severe the disability. Some disabled people live very fulfilling lives, whilst others aren't so lucky.
Scans during pregnancy do not always pick up on disabilities either sadly.
What I can't understand is those parents who choose to go along with a pregnancy knowing their child will have a poor quality of life and be severely disabled

 

[disabledlife]

An Example of bad parents:

French couple planning to ‘sacrifice’ 5-year-old son arrested in Spain

The couple were about to board a ferry to Morocco and intended to murder their son in the Sahara, police said. They were arrested on December 21 and have been remanded in custody in Spain.

www.scmp.com

 

[sserafim]

Personally I believe that disabilities (especially Asperger's/autism, I have it and it makes my life a living hell, I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemy) should qualify for VAD/MAiD if the disabled person wants to end their life. It shouldn't be forced upon them and rather should be their own personal choice. Disabilities make life harder than usual, it's like playing a video game on hard mode. You'll never be on the same level or have it as easy as people who are non-disabled, yet you still have to live in their world and conform to their standards and rules. Therefore, you're at an inherent disadvantage. You should be allowed euthanasia if you believe that your disability makes life not worth living (mine doesn't even have any treatment, medication or cure unfortunately and it's not fair that it doesn't qualify for VAD/MAiD).