Autism.

[Defenestrator]

Risk markers for suicidality in autistic adults

Research has shown high rates of suicidality in autism spectrum conditions (ASC), but there is lack of research into why this is the case. Many common experiences of autistic adults, such as depression or unemployment, overlap with known risk markers ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Statistically, people on the autistic spectrum are twice as likely to suffer from suicidal ideation and, subsequently, kill themselves compared to the general population.
Women in particular are at a greater risk of suicide compared to males on the spectrum (very interesting considering this is the complete opposite of what is seen in the neurotypical population!)
This is mostly down to "masking" where females are better able to cover up their alienness and are able to "pass" as neurotypical; this leads to a later diagnosis by which point she's probably already had a full mental breakdown and likely already tried to kill herself.

I'm bringing this up as it's relevant (Callie's story) and it's also the reason I am personally on this site - same story across the board, no real friends, never married (I'm in my early, going into my mid, thirties) and it's not that the option hasn't presented itself it just isn't feasible. We're not the easiest people to "bond" with so I know that I am the common denominator in all of this.

I guess the reason I'm making this thread is I honestly think that people on the spectrum should be allowed to die, and be assisted in doing so. There is no cure, it makes life fucking painful and miserable and no amount of antidepressants will change that.

Anyone else? I know there are a few of you out there but I'm wondering how many other women and if you too have invested a shit ton of energy into fitting in and can't cope anymore.

 

[Suicide_vampire]

Male here, late 40s only got diagnosis just over a year ago, but have suffered all my life.
I totally get the masking comment, I have been forced to do it all my life. So yeah holding down jobs and relationships is always time limited till the mask slips. And yeah suicidal thoughts have been and still are a daily constant in my life.

 

[hadenough]

Never been diagnosed with autism but I have wondered if I have it. I have heard that about a third of those diagnosed in childhood would not meet criteria for it in adulthood. I've taken a number of online tests and they all suggest that I don't have it, but I think I may have when I was a child - socially isolated, uncertain of others intentions etc. I'm male but grew up around sisters so that may have acted as a protective factor.

 

[Jean Améry]

No autism and not even female but I think everyone who has reason to should be allowed to die peacefully and receive assistence to this end if necessary. Almost no-one will throw away their one and only life for trivial reasons. I know from my own experience how much suffering one has to go through to erode the will to live.

Nowadays I have trouble making real emotional connections to others although this used to be different so clearly I'm not incapable of it although it might be possible I became 'damaged' (for lack of a better word) along the way. Still I can somewhat imagine what it's like to be that lonely and unable to really connect to others. I have a few friends but we don't share anything deep and it's very unlike what I used to have. My social relationships run on habit and superficial 'fun' activities greatly helped by copious amounts of alcohol. In a way this is sad although that emotion too has been blunted.

I wonder whether it's an after-effect of the antidepressants I once took or simply life beating the feeling out of me.

Of course I don't pretend to know what you're going through. I do sympathise with your obvious suffering and hope you'll find a few kindred spirits here.

 

[Defenestrator]

Never been diagnosed with autism but I have wondered if I have it. I have heard that about a third of those diagnosed in childhood would not meet criteria for it in adulthood. I've taken a number of online tests and they all suggest that I don't have it, but I think I may have when I was a child - socially isolated, uncertain of others intentions etc. I'm male but grew up around sisters so that may have acted as a protective factor.

Most people who are high-functioning are diagnosed later in life. A lot of people are still ignorant about autism and think that you can't have it unless you've got all of the stereotypical (obvious) traits like they show on TV. Not all autistic people are the same either, like some people like loud music lol and others fucking hate it.

Male here, late 40s only got diagnosis just over a year ago, but have suffered all my life.
I totally get the masking comment, I have been forced to do it all my life. So yeah holding down jobs and relationships is always time limited till the mask slips. And yeah suicidal thoughts have been and still are a daily constant in my life.

Yeah, it's very hard. There are long periods of time where I have been able to cope and do "normal" things, like have a relationship (never lasted longer than a year) and I did manage to finish my degree but it almost killed me, the social aspect/group aspect is what did me in there I think.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

47. Got an assessment coming up next week. Not sure if I want it to be yes or no. There's no help, if it's yes, I'm high functioning. Not convinced I want the diagnosis so that doctors can blame everything on it.

 

[Defenestrator]

47. Got an assessment coming up next week. Not sure if I want it to be yes or no. There's no help, if it's yes, I'm high functioning. Not convinced I want the diagnosis so that doctors can blame everything on it.

I know what you mean. I was told that recieving a diagnosis brings people some kind of relief, like "everything makes sense now" and that has happened with me but it's not in the way they were referring. For me, it's like "it all makes sense now why I don't want to be here anymore. This isn't fixable anyway."

 

[waterbottleman]

I'm a man in my late twenties and even though I've never been diagnosed by a professional for having autism I highly suspect that I have it. So many of the things I've read about autism fit me, the description of various autistic traits just fits me way too much for me to believe it is a coincidence. In addition I read a book on autism written by a woman who went through the DSM-5 criteria on autism and breaks it down for lay people to help determine self diagnosis or not. The author says that because autism is still widely misunderstood in addition to autism being on a spectrum, a lot of people who have it go undiagnosed. Furthermore plenty of people (myself included) who have autism are relatively functional adults which makes their autism less obvious.

This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if autistic women being more prone to suicide could also be because they're more alienated than autistic men. I know autism is a spectrum so it's kind of difficult to generalize, but it seems to me that autistic women are further away from conforming to gender roles than autistic men which leads to more social alienation, less understanding, less support, etc. I've also read and noticed that because autism is more prevalent in men, the support, resources, and research on autism seems to cater to men even though women who have autism have their own separate problems and issues.

 

[Suicide_vampire]

I actually like being in education, because of the structure, all the time tabling and how things are all on a timescale, like when classes are, assessments, exams etc. It's more predictable than work, less things to jump out and surprise you.

 

[Defenestrator]

I'm a man in my late twenties and even though I've never been diagnosed by a professional for having autism I highly suspect that I have it. So many of the things I've read about autism fit me, the description of various autistic traits just fits me way too much for me to believe it is a coincidence. In addition I read a book on autism written by a woman who went through the DSM-5 criteria on autism and breaks it down for lay people to help determine self diagnosis or not. The author says that because autism is still widely misunderstood in addition to autism being on a spectrum, a lot of people who have it go undiagnosed. Furthermore plenty of people (myself included) who have autism are relatively functional adults which makes their autism less obvious.

This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if autistic women being more prone to suicide could also be because they're more alienated than autistic men. I know autism is a spectrum so it's kind of difficult to generalize, but it seems to me that autistic women are further away from conforming to gender roles than autistic men which leads to more social alienation, less understanding, less support, etc. I've also read and noticed that because autism is more prevalent in men, the support, resources, and research on autism seems to cater to men even though women who have autism have their own separate problems and issues.

You are entirely correct. Socialising and fitting into social roles is a lot more important for women. No offence to the blokes here but, it's considered a lot more acceptable for a man to be autistic and antisocial in his tendancies than it is for a woman. This is actually discussed in the paper I linked, and a few others actually, as a reason why a lot of autistic women just kill themselves as they burnout and can't maintain the facade anymore.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I hate the term 'spectrum' it's so specific to autism. I prefer the more generic term 'continuum'. I think everyone is on it to a greater or lesser degree.

 

[hadenough]

Most people who are high-functioning are diagnosed later in life. A lot of people are still ignorant about autism and think that you can't have it unless you've got all of the stereotypical (obvious) traits like they show on TV. Not all autistic people are the same either, like some people like loud music lol and others fucking hate it.

Yeah, it's very hard. There are long periods of time where I have been able to cope and do "normal" things, like have a relationship (never lasted longer than a year) and I did manage to finish my degree but it almost killed me, the social aspect/group aspect is what did me in there I think.

I think if I did have autism it presented more like female autism, or perhaps Aspergers (it wasn't a diagnosis when I was a child) but it wasn't the typical autism. I was always socially awkward but have worked on that. There has been a call from the National Autistic Society to get it renamed a condition rather than a disorder and a growing body of evidence suggests that its more subtle presentation is so widespread it should be seen as a personality type.

 

[Defenestrator]

I hate the term 'spectrum' it's so specific to autism. I prefer the more generic term 'continuum'. I think everyone is on it to a greater or lesser degree.

Agreed, but there has to be differentiation. I know that most people have not had to experience what I have, and that is because of my autism. Saying that they are also on the "continuum" just detracts from my experiences, and these are only being experienced because of the autism. I'm sure my life would have been substantially less shit without it.

 

[Suicide_vampire]

I agree with the change in terminology. I think condition is more appropriate than disorder. Disorder has such a negative meaning.

 

[Defenestrator]

It is a disorder though. Have none of you read the OP? I'm pretty sure being unable to function in "normal" society constitutes a disorder.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Agreed, but there has to be differentiation. I know that most people have not had to experience what I have, and that is because of my autism. Saying that they are also on the "continuum" just detracts from my experiences, and these are only being experienced because of the autism. I'm sure my life would have been substantially less shit without it.

Fair enough, I guess there needs to be a diagnostic boundary.

 

[waterbottleman]

I actually like being in education, because of the structure, all the time tabling and how things are all on a timescale, like when classes are, assessments, exams etc. It's more predictable than work, less things to jump out and surprise you.

Lol agreed. School is pretty much the only thing I've ever excelled in in life.

You are entirely correct. Socialising and fitting into social roles is a lot more important for women. No offence to the blokes here but, it's considered a lot more acceptable for a man to be autistic and antisocial in his tendancies than it is for a woman. This is actually discussed in the paper I linked, and a few others actually, as a reason why a lot of autistic women just kill themselves as they burnout and can't maintain the facade anymore.

I couldn't agree more with what you said.

My heart goes out to autistic women, autism already sucks to have but at least as a men get a pass by society on certain things that women don't.

Although on the other hand, I do wonder if dating is easier for autistic women than autistic men. I have no idea so I have no opinion on the matter, but dating women as an autistic man is really really fucking challenging. I don't want to offend anyone even though I think what I'm about to say is common sense, but women often don't communicate directly and in a straightforward manner. So as a man when you date women you have to read their body language, facial expressions, and read between the lines with what women say to "get" what they are really trying to communicate. However if you're autistic, our brains are just wired in a way where we can't read body language and facial expressions as easily as normal people.

In addition we tend to interpret things literally, whereas often women do not speak literally. So dating as an autistic guy is really challenging, you often will be perceived as lacking charm, not caring, weird, or creepy even though it's not our fault. We do care and we aren't intentionally ignoring body language, etc it's just that our brains are wired in a way that makes us socially blind to a certain extent. So we are misunderstood and alienated for something that isn't our fault.

Sometimes I wonder if autistic people should just date each other, straightforward communication would make things so much god damn easier for us to understand each other as opposed to jumping through the various mental hoops and gymnastics that normal people do and the stupid mind games normal people play. Autistic people are handicapped to do this sort of stuff and frankly I find it exhausting and annoying.

On the other hand though because autism makes it harder to socially read people, I wonder if autistic women are more prone to being manipulated and abused which would really suck. Idk though would be curious to hear people's thoughts/experiences on this.

 

[Defenestrator]

Lol agreed. School is pretty much the only thing I've ever excelled in in life.


I couldn't agree more with what you said.

My heart goes out to autistic women, autism already sucks to have but at least as a men get a pass by society on certain things that women don't.

Although on the other hand, I do wonder if dating is easier for autistic women than autistic men. I have no idea so I have no opinion on the matter, but dating women as an autistic man is really really fucking challenging. I don't want to offend anyone even though I think what I'm about to say is common sense, but women often don't communicate directly and in a straightforward manner. So as a man when you date women you have to read their body language, facial expressions, and read between the lines with what women say to "get" what they are really trying to communicate. However if you're autistic, our brains are just wired in a way where we can't read body language and facial expressions as easily as normal people.

In addition we tend to interpret things literally, whereas often women do not speak literally. So dating as an autistic guy is really challenging, you often will be perceived as lacking charm, not caring, weird, or creepy even though it's not our fault. We do care and we aren't intentionally ignoring body language, etc it's just that our brains are wired in a way that makes us socially blind to a certain extent. So we are misunderstood and alienated for something that isn't our fault.

Sometimes I wonder if autistic people should just date each other, straightforward communication would make things so much god damn easier for us to understand each other as opposed to jumping through the various mental hoops and gymnastics that normal people do and the stupid mind games normal people play. Autistic people are handicapped to do this sort of stuff and frankly I find it exhausting and annoying.

On the other hand though because autism makes it harder to socially read people, I wonder if autistic women are more prone to being manipulated and abused which would really suck. Idk though would be curious to hear people's thoughts/experiences on this.

Yes, I know what you mean and I struggle with understanding other women too. I've had this conversation on here (in another thread) previously, most women seem to hate me for some reason and I honestly do not know why but I am guessing it's to do with the Asperger's. So this is why I don't have many friends, most of my friends have been online and almost entirely men as men are a lot more straightforward and less mindfucky in my experience.

So I also sympathise with autistic guys in that respect, it's hard for non-autistic men by the sounds of it so it must be nigh on impossible for you guys!

 

[Suicide_vampire]

My best friend and only friend is my dog, at 47 that might sound a bit pathetic but I struggle with friendships.
I just don't really get how it works and people seem to get irritated around me.

 

[waterbottleman]

Yes, I know what you mean and I struggle with understanding other women too. I've had this conversation on here (in another thread) previously, most women seem to hate me for some reason and I honestly do not know why but I am guessing it's to do with the Asperger's. So this is why I don't have many friends, most of my friends have been online and almost entirely men as men are a lot more straightforward and less mindfucky in my experience.

So I also sympathise with autistic guys in that respect, it's hard for non-autistic men by the sounds of it so it must be nigh on impossible for you guys!

See that sucks, im sorry about that. As an autistic woman you find it more difficult to connect to your own gender and are alienated by it. That's a hurdle as an autistic man that I don't face.

I also just want to make it clear that I don't mean to turn this into a men vs women gender war bullshit thing, I hate those petty arguments online where people try to argue which gender had it worse. I just had something to say so I said it. I'm sure there are things autistic women face that don't even occur to me so yeah I don't want to come off as if I'm victimizing men and saying they have it worse.

 

[Mm80]

Most people who are high-functioning are diagnosed later in life. A lot of people are still ignorant about autism and think that you can't have it unless you've got all of the stereotypical (obvious) traits like they show on TV. Not all autistic people are the same either, like some people like loud music lol and others fucking hate it.

Yeah, it's very hard. There are long periods of time where I have been able to cope and do "normal" things, like have a relationship (never lasted longer than a year) and I did manage to finish my degree but it almost killed me, the social aspect/group aspect is what did me in there I think.

Can relate to e

I know what you mean. I was told that recieving a diagnosis brings people some kind of relief, like "everything makes sense now" and that has happened with me but it's not in the way they were referring. For me, it's like "it all makes sense now why I don't want to be here anymore. This isn't fixable anyway."

i can relate to a lot of this. Ive been fully tested now done the ados test and structured interview (uk) and im waiting for results any time soon. Im 39 and feel bitterly dissapointed that i have only been treated as a depressant since adolescence. And wonder how life may have been with an early diagnosis. I also agree that a diagnosis is essentially confirmation of a death sentence, that you will never fit in or have a satisfying connected life. It makes me laugh when you are given the booby prize by others who say...people with aspergers are intelligent. Id rather be stupid and fit in and belong. The link between autism and suicide has not been highlighted nearly enough. And i still think neurotypical people still havent got a clue about high functioning autism. The programme about carrie could have been used to explore the link and raise awareness instead of looking for people to blame.

 

[waterbottleman]

My best friend and only friend is my dog, at 47 that might sound a bit pathetic but I struggle with friendships.
I just don't really get how it works and people seem to get irritated around me.

You're good, I sympathize. I'm 29 and have literally no friends at all. I had friends growing up but we slowly drifted apart in college and pretty much since graduating I've never been able to pick up some friends anymore.

I wish I could have a pet but Im sensitive to dust and animal hair, I have to live in a very clean place or else I'm miserable. Also I'm probably going to ctb soon so it doesn't make sense for me to get a pet either.

So at least you have a pet! All I have is my stuffed animal whale shark lmao.

 

[Defenestrator]

See that sucks, im sorry about that. As an autistic woman you find it more difficult to connect to your own gender and are alienated by it. That's a hurdle as an autistic man that I don't face.

I also just want to make it clear that I don't mean to turn this into a men vs women gender war bullshit thing, I hate those petty arguments online where people try to argue which gender had it worse. I just had something to say so I said it. I'm sure there are things autistic women face that don't even occur to me so yeah I don't want to come off as if I'm victimizing men and saying they have it worse.

Not at all, I think it's important people talk about it.

There are definitely differences though, and I just wanted to initiate a conversation on here about it so that people can get some understanding as to why a young woman who may appear to "have her entire future ahead of her" would want to end it.

 

[waterbottleman]

Not at all, I think it's important people talk about it.

There are definitely differences though, and I just wanted to initiate a conversation on here about it so that people can get some understanding as to why a young woman who may appear to "have her entire future ahead of her" would want to end it.

Now that I think of it I find it really sad that autistic women are more prone to suicide. autistic men already suicide more than normal men, but autistic women suicide at even higher rates than autistic men. Holy crap that is frightening, I can't imagine how difficult it must be if the suicide rate is that high relative to being a normal woman. The hurdles and barriers must make living an absolute nightmare.

I hope one day in the future autism is understood far better than it is now and people get the social support that they need that is so severely lacking.

 

[Defenestrator]

My best friend and only friend is my dog, at 47 that might sound a bit pathetic but I struggle with friendships.
I just don't really get how it works and people seem to get irritated around me.

Dogs are wondeful animals and they make great friends.

Can relate to e
i can relate to a lot of this. Ive been fully tested now done the ados test and structured interview (uk) and im waiting for results any time soon. Im 39 and feel bitterly dissapointed that i have only been treated as a depressant since adolescence. And wonder how life may have been with an early diagnosis. I also agree that a diagnosis is essentially confirmation of a death sentence, that you will never fit in or have a satisfying connected life. It makes me laugh when you are given the booby prize by others who say...people with aspergers are intelligent. Id rather be stupid and fit in and belong. The link between autism and suicide has not been highlighted nearly enough. And i still think neurotypical people still havent got a clue about high functioning autism. The programme about carrie could have been used to explore the link and raise awareness instead of looking for people to blame.

Yeah, I do think psychiatrists and most medical professionals are now realising how dangerous it can be though. The inherent risks involved with a late diagnosis can be catastrophic - as the saying goes, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. (and especially not when they're developmentally challenged as it is!)

 

[DoNotLet2]

I'm autistic and female. Ofc this is just my opinion I'm no expert.
The most overwhelming thing is when I can't deal with autism and everybody says DON'T USE AUTISM AS AN EXCUSE.
I mean I really can't deal with things. But no one cares.
Donotlet don't use autism as an excuse. Do not so. YOU GOTTA BE PERFECT WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. You are being unfit because you're spoiled not because you're autistic if you tried you would be normal... You are just annoying.

I always hear this. No one cares. What is the point of life? Why can't anyone tell me what is the point of life? Why am I supposed to keep going? Why? If there was one person who acknowledged my autism. Or even a half of a person would be enough.

 

[Defenestrator]

I'm autistic and female. Ofc this is just my opinion I'm no expert.
The most overwhelming thing is when I can't deal with autism and everybody says DON'T USE AUTISM AS AN EXCUSE.
I mean I really can't deal with things. But no one cares.
Donotlet don't use autism as an excuse. Do not so. YOU GOTTA BE PERFECT WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. You are being unfit because you're spoiled not because you're autistic if you tried you would be normal... You are just annoying.

I always hear this. No one cares. What is the point of life? Why can't anyone tell me what is the point of life? Why am I supposed to keep going? Why? If there was one person who acknowledged my autism. Or even a half of a person would be enough.

This is pretty much the logical conclusion we all come to in the end, I think. There isn't much point for us, most people say that life is about relationships and bonds we make with eachother... that's nice, what about for those of us who can't do that? Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[Mm80]

Lol agreed. School is pretty much the only thing I've ever excelled in in life.


I couldn't agree more with what you said.

My heart goes out to autistic women, autism already sucks to have but at least as a men get a pass by society on certain things that women don't.

Although on the other hand, I do wonder if dating is easier for autistic women than autistic men. I have no idea so I have no opinion on the matter, but dating women as an autistic man is really really fucking challenging. I don't want to offend anyone even though I think what I'm about to say is common sense, but women often don't communicate directly and in a straightforward manner. So as a man when you date women you have to read their body language, facial expressions, and read between the lines with what women say to "get" what they are really trying to communicate. However if you're autistic, our brains are just wired in a way where we can't read body language and facial expressions as easily as normal people.

In addition we tend to interpret things literally, whereas often women do not speak literally. So dating as an autistic guy is really challenging, you often will be perceived as lacking charm, not caring, weird, or creepy even though it's not our fault. We do care and we aren't intentionally ignoring body language, etc it's just that our brains are wired in a way that makes us socially blind to a certain extent. So we are misunderstood and alienated for something that isn't our fault.

Sometimes I wonder if autistic people should just date each other, straightforward communication would make things so much god damn easier for us to understand each other as opposed to jumping through the various mental hoops and gymnastics that normal people do and the stupid mind games normal people play. Autistic people are handicapped to do this sort of stuff and frankly I find it exhausting and annoying.

On the other hand though because autism makes it harder to socially read people, I wonder if autistic women are more prone to being manipulated and abused which would really suck. Idk though would be curious to hear people's thoughts/experiences on this.

About the dating i can so relate to what you are saying. Im male 39 likely to be diagnosed soon. The only partners i have had generally have been older and very assertive/aggressive/harsh. This is because they were the only ones who were direct about liking me. Ive never been able to read the more subtle cues of attraction that maybe kinder, more sensitive females give off. So ive been chosen by blunt females and ended up in some awful relationships.

 

[Suicide_vampire]

I've had terrible relationships been divorced twice. Both were physically and mentally abusive towards me. And didn't last long, I made big mistakes...
I think I will never have another relationship.

 

[DoNotLet2]

This is pretty much the logical conclusion we all come to in the end, I think. There isn't much point for us, most people say that life is about relationships and bonds we make with eachother... that's nice, what about for those of us who can't do that? Yeah, didn't think so.

I mean lack of understanding autism is a problem but this conclusion is a problem too.