Un-
I'm a failure. An absolute waste. A LOSEr.
- Apr 6, 2021
- 653
Alright. I think I'm well known, and if I am, I think a lot of people know that in religious threads, I love to play devil's advocate and actually play the defensive for Christianity, even though I, myself, and agnostic (leaning towards atheism). There's probably tons of threads out there way better than mine, but I want to get this off it chest.
As a preface, I want to say that people should believe whatever they want to believe. Be a flat earther, round earther, evolutionist, Christian, Buddhist, pizza-ist - I don't care. The problem comes when you force your beliefs on other people, and present it as facts - forgetting that your beliefs are indeed beliefs.
My argument is long. Bravo if you read it all. I doubt anyone will. But I think arguments for atheism are more rich if you had first hand experience of Christianity and what it's like indepth. I don't present a lot of research, but fuck you.
Atheism:
*When I mention "gay", I'm referring to anyone on the LGBT+ spectrum
The main basis of Christianity is to control other people and their bodies, and I don't agree with that. One example is how children to Christian couples are forced into the church - into that lifestyle - whether they want to or not. I think when they're of appropriate age.. Around 16, then they can decide whether they want to or not. But many people - of all religions, actually - are forced into it by their parents, and even the idea of diverting from this, would cause them to be exiled. It's like gayism - many families kick their children out (as young as 14 years old) on the street because they're gay. It's ridiculous.
So what you end up having is tons of people that fake everything just to survive. And from those people, many of them, when they move out, abandon their parents. Also known as "no contact", it's when children delete and privatise everything about themselves and effectively cut their parents out of their lives. I don't blame them at all. When from the day you were born until now was a lie - a painful lie, at that - then I don't blame you at all.
And this problem is made worse by how churches encourage ignorance. I had a Boy's Bible Survival Book, and multiple times, it mentioned that it's not the best idea to be friends with non-Christians; you shouldn't date a non-Christian, and you should never marry a non-Christian. This creates a bubble of ignorance where Christians don't understand other people, at all. It dehumanises other people. It tells Christians that they're "the chosen ones" and everyone else is "below them", "immoral", etcetera. Hence, why so many of them hate gay people. Why they outs their gay relatives. Why many of them, on the extreme side, mass murder and kill people just based on their sexuality.
It's astounding because I've seen many more atheists, and non-religous people be more empathetic and understanding than Christians - a religion that preaches to "love thy neighbour as yourself". Many Christians do things that go against the Bible. They pick and choose appropriately. And it doesn't make sense. Why would I follow a religion that encourages hatred towards something that I am - something that I cannot change? On top of that, many Christians consider non-heterosexuality, and mental disorders such as depression, anxiety, and autism to be the "causes of the devil" - meaning that these disorders are:
Not natural at all.
Can be prayed away.
Are sins.
I'm sure you can easily attest to that if you know a shred of biology, because, firstly, you cannot define your sexuality. You cannot be made gay, straight, etcetera. Mental disorders can be caused by a lot of things - they can be hereditary, it could be the cause of genetics, they could be because of your environment, the seasons of the year, joblessness, homelessness, heartbreak, abuse, trauma, self loathing, etcetera. These causes can't be prayed away. Most of them cannot even be treated with modern medication. It's just another example of how actual reality is constantly construed in a way to make Christians ignorant of how it actually works, and to be less sympathetic and harmful.
This point is an argument regularly brought up by skeptics, but the number of allegations against the church for many, many crimes - from sexual abuse, to physical abuse, fraud, etcetera - is astounding. A video that came to mind is of a Nigerian pastor, who "healed" someone with arms of different lengths by pulling them ().
You cannot be serious. There's many more instances of foul play in churches.
Adding onto that point of biology, the Christian Bible makes no sense in terms of the creation. The Bible states that Adam and eve were created, and the earth and everything were created in several days. But biology - specifically, Darwinism and the theory of evolution - states otherwise. I want to clarify something that many, many people discount. When something is a scientific theory, it means that this theory has been rigoursly tested over and over again by multiple scientists over a long period of time, and the same results were achieved. Theories aren't perfect - hence the name - and are subject to being disproved or improved upon of necessary by other scientists whose thesis undergoes the same process. Another point to make clear is fay Charles Darwin discovered this in the 19th century. It is the 21st century right now. With all of that considered - with all the evidence of how evolution was conceived: from analysing fossils and fossil remains and matching them to historical dates, to discovering the fossils of transitional species, to analysing analogous and homologous structures in organisms, to analysing the DNA of different species and comparing genetic sequences.. How could you deny it? I'll place an anecdote: suppose you destroy every single Bible in the world, and every single scientific book in the world, and wait at least 5 centuries. It is almost guaranteed that more scientific books will emerge, and that the Bible will never be created again. Take that as you will.
Onto the more religious side of things. There are many biblical contradictions - so much that there are websites that point it out. Here's one:
www.atheists.org
Even overlooking this, there's one really large contradiction: prayer. The entire antithesis of God's actions is free will. It's the reason he let Satan Rebel against him in heaven; why he let Satan infiltrate the garden of Eden and convince Adam and eve to eat the forbidden fruit, and much much more. But if that is the case.. Then prayers shouldn't work at all. If you pray, for example, that surgery for your mother's spine is a success, that's essential asking God to intervene with the surgical process - which is taking free will away from the surgeons themselves. Why not ensure that surgeons can exert their free will and practice what they've studied? If you pray for the surgery to succeed, but the surgeon is quite unprepared for it, and is bound to fail the surgery, why should got take away the surgeon's free will at that moment to make the surgery a success? It makes no sense.
Additionally, why are there - for example - babies born with their organs on the outside? What did they do? But fine. The usual justification is that because sin was cast into man through the consumption of the forbidden fruit, all of man for all of history is subject to suffering, sin and death (I don't know why a "fair God" would allow a mistake that two people made affect billions of creatures (yes, creatures. Animals were affected too) and billions of humans for centuries to come, but I digress). My question is, why would God allow for suffering in the first place, but then take it away when you pray? Suffering exists because of Satan. Directly. That's what most Christians believe. So for God to stop your suffering in any point in time, he'd have to intervene with Satan - directly contradicting the entire concept of free will. It makes no sense. Does free will not apply to angels and demons? If so, then why doesn't God destroy Satan when people pray? Why didn't Jesus do it? Because if this is the case, then that Epicurus quote rings true:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
And why would you worship someone who allows you to suffer, then sometimes takes it back. Sometimes he answers you, sometimes he ignores you. Every time you're going through suffering, you claim it's a "test"; every time you he doesn't answer your prayers or requests, even if it's a dire emergency, you call it a "test", and that he's "making you stronger", and that you were destined for this (destiny contracts free will, but I digress). If you had to swap out God with an husband, you'd instantly say he's abusive: a husband that allows you to suffer? A husband that ignored you sometimes, other times he helps? Every time you're suffering and your husband doesn't help you, you convince yourself that it's "a test". That he's "making you stronger". This is under the presumption that God doesn't inflict suffering onto you. But we see in Job's story in the bible, he let Satan go to town on him. It. Makes. Zero. Sense.
The entire monopoly Christianity has is domineering, too. Do you understand how easy it is to lie about something like this? Because Christian followers are so susceptible and don't question their faith, pastors can and have been getting away with a lot of unspeakable acts. How do you know than people who have visions of God aren't lying? It's in their interest to lie, because they get donations, publicity and fame and undying support from Christian followers. Are you telling me people don't lie, especially if they stand to gain an incredible sum of benefits?
As I mentioned earlier, Christians rarely are accepting of other people's beliefs. It's the cause of all of the above problem (^). In the current day and age, it causes more misery and suffering for everyone affected. I'd much rather be behind a populous, and a belief that is accepting of other viewpoints. Of other people and their ideas and experiences, encouraging empathy and seeing other people as human beings. While I don't consider myself a Christian anymore, I'm not advocating for its abolishment. I just don't want any part of it anymore.
Let people believe and engage with ideas, even if they're different to yours. A man will cut your tongue because he's scared of what you can say.
As a preface, I want to say that people should believe whatever they want to believe. Be a flat earther, round earther, evolutionist, Christian, Buddhist, pizza-ist - I don't care. The problem comes when you force your beliefs on other people, and present it as facts - forgetting that your beliefs are indeed beliefs.
My argument is long. Bravo if you read it all. I doubt anyone will. But I think arguments for atheism are more rich if you had first hand experience of Christianity and what it's like indepth. I don't present a lot of research, but fuck you.
Atheism:
*When I mention "gay", I'm referring to anyone on the LGBT+ spectrum
The main basis of Christianity is to control other people and their bodies, and I don't agree with that. One example is how children to Christian couples are forced into the church - into that lifestyle - whether they want to or not. I think when they're of appropriate age.. Around 16, then they can decide whether they want to or not. But many people - of all religions, actually - are forced into it by their parents, and even the idea of diverting from this, would cause them to be exiled. It's like gayism - many families kick their children out (as young as 14 years old) on the street because they're gay. It's ridiculous.
So what you end up having is tons of people that fake everything just to survive. And from those people, many of them, when they move out, abandon their parents. Also known as "no contact", it's when children delete and privatise everything about themselves and effectively cut their parents out of their lives. I don't blame them at all. When from the day you were born until now was a lie - a painful lie, at that - then I don't blame you at all.
And this problem is made worse by how churches encourage ignorance. I had a Boy's Bible Survival Book, and multiple times, it mentioned that it's not the best idea to be friends with non-Christians; you shouldn't date a non-Christian, and you should never marry a non-Christian. This creates a bubble of ignorance where Christians don't understand other people, at all. It dehumanises other people. It tells Christians that they're "the chosen ones" and everyone else is "below them", "immoral", etcetera. Hence, why so many of them hate gay people. Why they outs their gay relatives. Why many of them, on the extreme side, mass murder and kill people just based on their sexuality.
It's astounding because I've seen many more atheists, and non-religous people be more empathetic and understanding than Christians - a religion that preaches to "love thy neighbour as yourself". Many Christians do things that go against the Bible. They pick and choose appropriately. And it doesn't make sense. Why would I follow a religion that encourages hatred towards something that I am - something that I cannot change? On top of that, many Christians consider non-heterosexuality, and mental disorders such as depression, anxiety, and autism to be the "causes of the devil" - meaning that these disorders are:
Not natural at all.
Can be prayed away.
Are sins.
I'm sure you can easily attest to that if you know a shred of biology, because, firstly, you cannot define your sexuality. You cannot be made gay, straight, etcetera. Mental disorders can be caused by a lot of things - they can be hereditary, it could be the cause of genetics, they could be because of your environment, the seasons of the year, joblessness, homelessness, heartbreak, abuse, trauma, self loathing, etcetera. These causes can't be prayed away. Most of them cannot even be treated with modern medication. It's just another example of how actual reality is constantly construed in a way to make Christians ignorant of how it actually works, and to be less sympathetic and harmful.
This point is an argument regularly brought up by skeptics, but the number of allegations against the church for many, many crimes - from sexual abuse, to physical abuse, fraud, etcetera - is astounding. A video that came to mind is of a Nigerian pastor, who "healed" someone with arms of different lengths by pulling them ().
You cannot be serious. There's many more instances of foul play in churches.
Adding onto that point of biology, the Christian Bible makes no sense in terms of the creation. The Bible states that Adam and eve were created, and the earth and everything were created in several days. But biology - specifically, Darwinism and the theory of evolution - states otherwise. I want to clarify something that many, many people discount. When something is a scientific theory, it means that this theory has been rigoursly tested over and over again by multiple scientists over a long period of time, and the same results were achieved. Theories aren't perfect - hence the name - and are subject to being disproved or improved upon of necessary by other scientists whose thesis undergoes the same process. Another point to make clear is fay Charles Darwin discovered this in the 19th century. It is the 21st century right now. With all of that considered - with all the evidence of how evolution was conceived: from analysing fossils and fossil remains and matching them to historical dates, to discovering the fossils of transitional species, to analysing analogous and homologous structures in organisms, to analysing the DNA of different species and comparing genetic sequences.. How could you deny it? I'll place an anecdote: suppose you destroy every single Bible in the world, and every single scientific book in the world, and wait at least 5 centuries. It is almost guaranteed that more scientific books will emerge, and that the Bible will never be created again. Take that as you will.
Onto the more religious side of things. There are many biblical contradictions - so much that there are websites that point it out. Here's one:
Biblical Contradictions
It is a central dogma of all fundamental Christians that the Bible is without error. They teach this conclusion by “reasoning” that god cannot be the author of false meaning and he cannot lie. Is this true? If written by a perfect being, then it must not contradict itself, as a collection of...
www.atheists.org
Additionally, why are there - for example - babies born with their organs on the outside? What did they do? But fine. The usual justification is that because sin was cast into man through the consumption of the forbidden fruit, all of man for all of history is subject to suffering, sin and death (I don't know why a "fair God" would allow a mistake that two people made affect billions of creatures (yes, creatures. Animals were affected too) and billions of humans for centuries to come, but I digress). My question is, why would God allow for suffering in the first place, but then take it away when you pray? Suffering exists because of Satan. Directly. That's what most Christians believe. So for God to stop your suffering in any point in time, he'd have to intervene with Satan - directly contradicting the entire concept of free will. It makes no sense. Does free will not apply to angels and demons? If so, then why doesn't God destroy Satan when people pray? Why didn't Jesus do it? Because if this is the case, then that Epicurus quote rings true:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
And why would you worship someone who allows you to suffer, then sometimes takes it back. Sometimes he answers you, sometimes he ignores you. Every time you're going through suffering, you claim it's a "test"; every time you he doesn't answer your prayers or requests, even if it's a dire emergency, you call it a "test", and that he's "making you stronger", and that you were destined for this (destiny contracts free will, but I digress). If you had to swap out God with an husband, you'd instantly say he's abusive: a husband that allows you to suffer? A husband that ignored you sometimes, other times he helps? Every time you're suffering and your husband doesn't help you, you convince yourself that it's "a test". That he's "making you stronger". This is under the presumption that God doesn't inflict suffering onto you. But we see in Job's story in the bible, he let Satan go to town on him. It. Makes. Zero. Sense.
The entire monopoly Christianity has is domineering, too. Do you understand how easy it is to lie about something like this? Because Christian followers are so susceptible and don't question their faith, pastors can and have been getting away with a lot of unspeakable acts. How do you know than people who have visions of God aren't lying? It's in their interest to lie, because they get donations, publicity and fame and undying support from Christian followers. Are you telling me people don't lie, especially if they stand to gain an incredible sum of benefits?
As I mentioned earlier, Christians rarely are accepting of other people's beliefs. It's the cause of all of the above problem (^). In the current day and age, it causes more misery and suffering for everyone affected. I'd much rather be behind a populous, and a belief that is accepting of other viewpoints. Of other people and their ideas and experiences, encouraging empathy and seeing other people as human beings. While I don't consider myself a Christian anymore, I'm not advocating for its abolishment. I just don't want any part of it anymore.
Let people believe and engage with ideas, even if they're different to yours. A man will cut your tongue because he's scared of what you can say.
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