Atheism does not exist - what do you worship?

[noname223]

No offense, but this reads like a glorified excerpt from a self-help book, like juvenile prose poetry. DFW killed himself. So much for his extraordinary power to experience life as not only meaningful but sacred, to perceive the mystical sub-surface unity of all things & to decide how he sees oppressive mundane situations... I'm reminded of this quote that I really, really hate & that therapists adore:
"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
--Viktor Frankl
Everything can be taken from a person, dear Frankl, absolutely everything. You can be completely stripped of dignity.

I have another perspective on it. But you seem to be quite unhappy about it. I don't want to start a debate about it. I think he had the stance that suicide shall be the last resort. At least for him personally.

But he also said stuff like the following:
"All this business about people committing suicide when they're "severely depressed;" we say, "Holy cow, we must do something to stop them from killing themselves!" That's wrong. Because all these people have, you see, by this time already killed themselves, where it really counts. By the time these people swallow entire medicine cabinets or take naps in the garage or whatever, they've already been killing themselves for ever so long."

I mentioned it in another thread. Don't want to annoy you with that. You really seem to dislike this quote above. (maybe also him.)

 

[motel rooms]

just know that Jesus chose to teach in metaphors almost exclusively and there are better spiritual teachers if you want literal statements.

I understand the statements attributed to Jesus perfectly well & I know why he "bravely" chose to teach in parables. I also happen to know that there are very important differences between the 4 Gospels that even the Holy Spirit couldn't possibly reconcile, which is equal parts pathetic & comical:

(this is only 20 minutes long & extremely informative & amusing; get out your trusty Bible & check if this esteemed New Testament scholar is making shit up)

 

[Foresight]

I understand the statements attributed to Jesus perfectly well & I know why he "bravely" chose to teach in parables.

I'm not aware of any "bravery" in the use of parables.

The interpretation of your original post is that he sought to teach a different way in regards to how we see ourselves, how we treat each other, and especially how we navigate our relationship with the material world. He knew this would bring up issues with family members who rely heavily on religious leaders and the cultural ways of life. You have the canonical gospels and you have other texts that give you an idea of these teachings. Perhaps there are historical errors, but you have a right to dig for spiritual lessons. Even Ehrman says that in the video you posted at 12:10 and 20 minutes in. Perhaps Jesus wasn't even a historical figure and it's entirely metaphorical. Who knows the absolute truth about historical Buddha either. The teachings stand, or they don't. That's your choice and I respect that.

Ehrman is making an argument that the bible is not divinely inspired but rather inspired and composed by man with contradictions and historical inaccuracies. The bible has also been edited and manipulated by man over the span of history. I take no issue with that stance. I'm not an evangelical Christian, I'm an experiential gnostic. I completely respect you take issue with literal interpretations of the bible as well as the claims that the bible is divinely inspired and a completely accurate historical account.

 

[motel rooms]

The teachings stand, or they don't. That's your choice and I respect that.

I'm not interested in being a delusional masochist, so Jesus has nothing to teach me about love & life. If he were alive, I'd like to tell him all about the ten years I spent nailed to a cross by a pedophile.

 

[Luchs]

If I told you what I worship I'd probably be banned.

 

[Foresight]

I'm not interested in being a delusional masochist, so Jesus has nothing to teach me about love & life. If he were alive, I'd like to tell him all about the ten years I spent nailed to a cross by a pedophile.

I truly respect your view on modern Christianity, especially with what you've been through, and I'm sorry. What they teach is far from what I've come to.

I personally see Christ and Buddha as guides out of this way of the world. I do have spiritual beliefs, and maybe that's just because I'm crazy. It's kind of private. It changes me for the better and gives me peace. I never use it as a weapon against others. That's counter to it all, it's an individual journey.

 

[D&D]

I wish people would read everything that Jesus supposedly said. Historians call people like him fanatical Jewish apocalyptic preachers (he wasn't even the only one) for a reason...


34 ​"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 ​For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 ​And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37 ​Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." 38 ​
Matthew 10:34-38

"I have come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning! Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth?"
Luke 12:49

"He who is not with Me is against Me."
Matthew 12:30

Indeed. Everything. In its full context, including historical, and original text.

Out of reach for the most.

Which is why countless translations/interpretations and subsequent arguments ensued and remain to this day. And in doing so ...

Keep the message alive. After all this time. Witnessing the ever-present desires of human heart.

As, in a minuscule way, this conversation confirms.

And for that I thank you.

 

[motel rooms]

You really seem to dislike this quote above.

Yeah, I really dislike it. Free will, options, cognitive reframing, meaningfulness, sacredness, you've got the power... Shut up, dude, you're ruining your literary reputation... I'm not angry with you, though.

 

[og.]

Er... isn't that kind of ironic with your pfp?

i just wanna make my hair like that and look like her tbh i dont worship them

 

[Pen>Sword]

If you want a serious answer, I'd be Catholic. I still practice it, but it's something I'm terrible at. I worship the Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[TheUncommon]

When did atheism (defined as "godless") randomly become defined as "not worshipping"

 

[Superdeterminist]

i just wanna make my hair like that and look like her tbh i dont worship them

Ok. But why do you think there's something wrong with liking pretty women?

 

[9BBN]

I don't worship, or believe in, anything supernatural. That's what makes me atheist. Religious people like to think atheism is a religion because it validates themselves. But it's denial. And redefining words that other people self-identify with doesn't change what they believe.

 

[LastFlowers]

Ok. But why do you think there's something wrong with liking pretty women?

Because you're liking them for superficial and unearned reasons, and blaming it on "nature", many people in society suffer dearly because of this type of human value system where no amount of hard work or virtuous personality traits can get them to be noticed, acknowledged, or even loved all because they lack a pretty or handsome face (and/or body).
You're succumbing to shallow leanings and the halo effect, where being cognizant of such can allow you to subvert these thoughts and misplaced admirations.
I'm not saying you can change that instant judgement the brain makes of whether someone is or is not attractive, but you have control over everything else.
Most people just don't care if it doesn't affect them negatively or if they are too stubborn to change their obsequious ways.
Go ahead and keep going as you were, but there's no sense in defending it.

 

[Dragon's Heart]

Currently, I am worshipping chocolate. Tomorrow, it might be snickerdoodles. I just don't care I guess.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Because you're liking them for superficial and unearned reasons, and blaming it on "nature", many people in society suffer dearly because of this type of human value system where no amount of hard work or virtuous personality traits can get them to be noticed, acknowledged, or even loved all because they lack a pretty or handsome face (and/or body).
You're succumbing to shallow leanings and the halo effect, where being cognizant of such can allow you to subvert these thoughts and misplaced admirations.
I'm not saying you can change that instant judgement the brain makes of whether someone is or is not attractive, but you have control over everything else.
Most people just don't care if it doesn't affect them negatively or if they are too stubborn to change their obsequious ways.
Go ahead and keep going as you were, but there's no sense in defending it.

I personally don't believe ANYTHING is 'earned'. I think that good looks is on the same level as any other trait - it's not any more superficial than the next feature you can name, be it intelligence, humour, or sociability, to name a few. ALL is the result of determined physical structure, none of which we really control. Being ugly SUCKS, I'm pretty sure, and lookism is a very real problem. I'm aware of the halo effect and I think that's also a real issue. But I can't apologise for enjoying attractive faces. NO, attractive people aren't 'better' than ugly people, but they are nicer to look at (essentially by definition). I think it's fucked up that ugly people have to live with being ugly, and I don't blame them for their own ugliness whatsoever, because it wasn't a choice they made (nothing is).

 

[summers]

To quote Biggie Smalls, "Money, clothes, and ho's"

 

[Darkover]

mathematics science ai superintelligence power beyond anything you've ever imagined, it be amazing if i could make sense of any computer code within seconds, to have an extra sense that allows me to plug into the computers and interface with them via thought and have a superintelligence aid you in the designing of your own things inside a computer, evolution into more complex forms of life, it be amazing to have a computer that can read all my thoughts and see what i imagine or dream of and get to see it come alive inside a computer model. one day one day.

it would be cool if you could plug into your computer and see all the instruction being executed in real time with the ability to fully comprehend what those instructions are doing
given almost god like power to manipulate in real time the code it's executing.

 

[summers]

I personally don't believe ANYTHING is 'earned'. I think that good looks is on the same level as any other trait - it's not any more superficial than the next feature you can name, be it intelligence, humour, or sociability, to name a few. ALL is the result of determined physical structure, none of which we really control. Being ugly SUCKS, I'm pretty sure, and lookism is a very real problem. I'm aware of the halo effect and I think that's also a real issue. But I can't apologise for enjoying attractive faces. NO, attractive people aren't 'better' than ugly people, but they are nicer to look at (essentially by definition). I think it's fucked up that ugly people have to live with being ugly, and I don't blame them for their own ugliness whatsoever, because it wasn't a choice they made (nothing is).

Ok, but it takes work to get an aesthetic physique. Even if you have good genetics, you won't get a six pack sitting on the couch. It may come a little easier for some, but there are drugs to offset genetic deficiencies.

Same with humor, social skills, and almost anything else. The best stand up comedians weren't born good, they practiced.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Ok, but it takes work to get an aesthetic physique. Even if you have good genetics, you won't get a six pack sitting on the couch. It may come a little easier for some, but there are drugs to offset genetic deficiencies.

Same with humor, social skills, and almost anything else. The best stand up comedians weren't born good, they practiced.

That they can be improved on with effort, does not place them outside the scope of luck. It is entirely luck-based how hard you are willing to, and able to, work on anything about yourself. We are NOT all free to work as hard as each other, the same as we are NOT all free to be tall or beautiful.

 

[summers]

That they can be improved on with effort, does not place them outside the scope of luck. It is entirely luck-based how hard you are willing to, and able to, work on anything about yourself. We are NOT all free to work as hard as each other, the same as we are NOT all free to be tall or beautiful.

Definitely agree. There are some things we can't change. Best we can do it try to compensate for them in other ways.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I worship Crom, not often because he is not listening to me.

 

[motel rooms]

Which is why countless translations/interpretations and subsequent arguments ensued and remain to this day. And in doing so ...
Keep the message alive. After all this time. Witnessing the ever-present desires of human heart.

But I don't like his message, no generous interpretation/attempt at sanitization can change that... Jesus ain't all about "pure, absolute love" by any stretch of the imagination, he's a very complex character quite fond of contradicting himself. Read the Gospels, all four of them, they aren't long. I've actually had to do that more than once for various reasons, & I don't see Jesus as an unambiguous emancipator; he's also an arrogant enslaver. A wolf in a sacrificial lamb's clothing.

Only dangerous egomaniacs have the gall to claim they speak on behalf of God, & a "spiritual teacher" who orders his followers to be meek little victims who must love their persecutors isn't admirable, he's disgusting. Would you praise me for being "pure, absolute love" incarnate if I started telling victims of abuse that they must turn the other cheek if they want to be good people? What's a little suffering, you spoiled brats? Our flesh is worthless & inherently evil anyway & our souls are immortal. Rejoice for you have been chosen for slow martyrdom! Great shall be your reward when you finally get to die & your souls sink their teeth into that sweet pie in the sky. Mmm, invisible sky pie...

 

[StringPuppet]

Porn because I'm a degenerate

 

[Versailles]

I adore the Holy Vagina

 

[callme]

NO, attractive people aren't 'better' than ugly people, but they are nicer to look at (essentially by definition).

You just gave the reason as to why they are better. Children as young as a year old can make this distinction, so it's time we spit it out. The earlier we do, the more everybody will get over it and leave those people alone for goddamn good sense. Instead of pointing out so of pity.

People just care for all those inborn talents only. Without them life doesn't happen, so saying that the people who wave them are not better isn't true. They have the whole world. But properly speaking, the ones talentless have nothing.

 

[Superdeterminist]

You just gave the reason as to why they are better. Children as young as a year old can make this distinction, so it's time we spit it out. The earlier we do, the more everybody will get over it and leave those people alone for goddamn good sense. Instead of pointing out so of pity.

People just care for all those inborn talents only. Without them life doesn't happen, so saying that the people who wave them are not better isn't true. They have the whole world. But properly speaking, the ones talentless have nothing.

I do think that more attractive people tend to enjoy more opportunities and more positive interactions in the world. But I don't know what the word 'attractive' means if it doesn't mean that attractive people have something over ugly people in the specific domain of appearance. That doesn't mean I consider them to be better off as a whole. Looks is only one domain of many.

 

[angiegirl30]

Wow, I feel incredibly outnumbered here. I'm Catholic and worship Jesus Christ.

 

[summers]

Wow, I feel incredibly outnumbered here. I'm Catholic and worship Jesus Christ.

So you're cool will going to hell when you kill yourself?

 

[angiegirl30]

So you're cool will going to hell when

Of course not. I struggle with my depression everyday. Some days are better than others. Some days and weeks I just lose myself in my misery and sadness and don't want to be here anymore. But I won't give up without a fight. For the most part ( at least today) I want to live.