[Article] Pro-lifers don’t like their atavistic morals and views being challenged, questioned, or attacked

[TAW122]

Several years ago I wrote a thread (around the year 2020) about how when one blocks/ignores/deletes another person from social media, it is akin to metaphorically killing said person (without actually killing said person) as it means that said person has just cut the target out of their life and (likely) to never have contact with them again, which is similar to that as the target person being dead to the initiator's perspective (even if the target is still alive out there in the world). It is also very likely that the initiator will not see said person again.

Anyways, so this article revisits that thread that I wrote and focuses more on the fact that it isn't death itself that pro-lifers are problematic with (they are, but there is something more central to this point), but the fact that their atavistic morals and view on life are threatened. In other words, in their eyes, it's like their (delusional) world view is being challenged and at risk of being shattered, disproven, and having to face the ugly truth so they do anything to validate and protect it, even at the cost of others' well-being.

This includes, but is not limited to invasive, intrusive intervention against one's will (CTB prevention measures such as but not limited to being locked up in a psych ward, detained against one's will, and treatment against one's will and more). Additionally, they even go as far as to gaslight, question, and inquire about anyone that has ANY hint of CTB ideation or behaviors, or signs, while all failing to address the underlying cause (pushing the onus onto the sufferer to figure it out). Then, they validate themselves by patting themselves on their backs for playing hero and intervening (even if the outcome isn't the best and leaves said person in a worse predicament – ostracization, loss of rights, financial problems, and other consequences). Sure, while their atavistic morals are often religious in nature, some are just terrified of reality that they feel the need to (preemptively) unjustly and inappropriately suppress another's freedom just to protect their own views and morals.

So in other words, if they (the pro-lifers) had no prior knowledge of said person CTB'ing or dying from CTB, they wouldn't have felt a loss. In a sense, what they (the pro-lifers) don't know, can't hurt them (the pro-lifers), because it doesn't threaten their world view and of course, their ego. They also do not care about improving the said person's (sufferer) quality of life as much as it is to just pad their egos, but that goes without saying. After all, it's often just about their (pro-lifers') ego and validating their beliefs and worldview; in other words, it's all about them (and their egos). It is the epitome of selfishness, arrogance, and cruelty.

@Forever Sleep @FuneralCry

 

[saddestbunny]

yea, most people don't have much self awareness in their own lives so expecting awareness of others to a reasonable degree seems like a lost cause

 

[FuneralCry]

I cannot stand those people who refuse to accept suicide as a valid option and push these harmful delusions onto other people, if they want to continue existing then that's up to them but it disgusts me when I hear of them trying to force other people to suffer, I hate how we exist in a world where suicidal people are treat like criminals simply for wanting to die.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Sure- if you have become estranged from people- so, they never find out you CTB and they never try to get back in contact- they'll be none the wiser.

Still- if they do find out, it's bound to make them feel weird. Especially if the death is suicide. Death is so final. Whether it was because you'd had a falling out or, simply drifted apart- there's absolutely no chance no of reconciliation or reunion now. They may well feel guilt that they weren't there for the person. Basically- they were too busy with their own life to make the effort to check in on an old friend. Plus- they'll grieve for the time they COULD have spent with the person if both had made the effort.

I don't know- I do get the whole hatred/ frustration towards pro lifers. Still- presumably here, you're refering to people that know us. Honestly- unless they're in the same boat as us and are incredibly open minded and understanding, I think very few people would just stand back and let someone they knew kill themselves (presuming they got wind of it.)

Partly it's probably selfishness- they don't want to live with the feeling that there might have been something they could have done. Partly though, I think it's because they truly believe that suicide isn't our best option. I just think our thought process is SO different- it's a bit much to expect a pro-life normie to have that prior knowledge of an upcoming suicide and be absolutely ok with it. That's why I think it's very unwise to tell people.

 

[TAW122]

Sure- if you have become estranged from people- so, they never find out you CTB and they never try to get back in contact- they'll be none the wiser.

Still- if they do find out, it's bound to make them feel weird. Especially if the death is suicide. Death is so final. Whether it was because you'd had a falling out or, simply drifted apart- there's absolutely no chance no of reconciliation or reunion now. They may well feel guilt that they weren't there for the person. Basically- they were too busy with their own life to make the effort to check in on an old friend. Plus- they'll grieve for the time they COULD have spent with the person if both had made the effort.

I don't know- I do get the whole hatred/ frustration towards pro lifers. Still- presumably here, you're refering to people that know us. Honestly- unless they're in the same boat as us and are incredibly open minded and understanding, I think very few people would just stand back and let someone they knew kill themselves (presuming they got wind of it.)

Partly it's probably selfishness- they don't want to live with the feeling that there might have been something they could have done. Partly though, I think it's because they truly believe that suicide isn't our best option. I just think our thought process is SO different- it's a bit much to expect a pro-life normie to have that prior knowledge of an upcoming suicide and be absolutely ok with it. That's why I think it's very unwise to tell people.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It does bring up a thought, if pro-lifers are operating under their natural preservation instinct, then what if suppose we give them a taste of their own medicine? Would that change things (proving that we (pro-choicers) don't like it when they impose their will on us, but yet if we do similar to them, then perhaps they will get it or understand)?

It seems like there has to be an overhaul in the way the masses see death and the culture surrounding death itself. Maybe through the media or movies that show that death with dignity and that death itself isn't always a bad thing, sometimes, it is the cessation of (continual, perpetual) suffering. Furthermore, I do believe that the legalization of MAID (similar to Canada's program) for the US and many other Western countries would be a step in the right direction towards at least 'tolerance' of another individuals' bodily autonomy when it comes to choosing death on one's own terms. What other ideas do you have?

 

[Forever Sleep]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It does bring up a thought, if pro-lifers are operating under their natural preservation instinct, then what if suppose we give them a taste of their own medicine? Would that change things (proving that we (pro-choicers) don't like it when they impose their will on us, but yet if we do similar to them, then perhaps they will get it or understand)?

It seems like there has to be an overhaul in the way the masses see death and the culture surrounding death itself. Maybe through the media or movies that show that death with dignity and that death itself isn't always a bad thing, sometimes, it is the cessation of (continual, perpetual) suffering. Furthermore, I do believe that the legalization of MAID (similar to Canada's program) for the US and many other Western countries would be a step in the right direction towards at least 'tolerance' of another individuals' bodily autonomy when it comes to choosing death on one's own terms. What other ideas do you have?

Hmm yeah- interesting. As in- nag them on some of their bad habits- you shouldn't be drinking/ smoking/ eating that much if you REALLY want to have a full life? Or- try and get them to visualise what it must take to get to the point where someone wants to take their own life?

I don't really have any ideas. Maybe it's lazy but I can't see things meaningfully changing in my lifetime- no matter what I do. I'm not so sure they'll ever legitimise assisted suicide for someone who is relatively healthy. Still- I agree- if things like MAID do get rolled out across the world- perhaps attitudes will slowly start to change. It'll likely be too late to help us though. I guess I'm selfish at the end of the day. I don't have kin to worry about. I feel sorry for the future generations but not enough to fight for them now. I'm afraid, they're on their own- just like we were. I only feel relieved that I didn't create a child to negotiate through all this.

 

[Sweet Tart]

What other ideas do you have?

I like the idea of flipping the script on pro-lifers. This is a bit tangential, but I wish they would get involved in death penalty abolition instead of proselytizing to people who want to ctb. If they genuinely want to save lives, they could be trying to save people who want to live!

I'm not here to argue about capital punishment with anyone who disagrees, just saying that a person with pro-life views has options about how to do advocacy and who needs it most.

Then again, the ones that show up here don't seem very smart or nuanced in their understanding of reasons for ctb (i.e. trauma, physical and/or mental illness, stressors of poverty, abuses within the healthcare system, etc.) OR the fact that many of us have already explored (and continue to participate in) the solutions they like to suggest (i.e. therapy, social support, psych meds, "fun activities", etc.).

As you mention, I would also love to see pro-choice stories in film or other media. I also agree that the culture around death needs an overhaul.

 

[ablationaaa457]

In general pro-lifers seem very hyper-focused on stopping the act of suicide itself in every way possible as opposed to actually addressing many of the root causes. It feels like they also tend to just give blanket recommendations revolving around accessing therapy and the like instead of engaging in actual discussion. Don't get me wrong, I do fully support mental health professionals and the work they do, but it's utterly delusional to treat it as a magic cure-all pill that everyone can easily access, and simply redirecting people to access such services while covering their ears and ignoring all criticism is just frankly idiotic.

 

[TAW122]

Hmm yeah- interesting. As in- nag them on some of their bad habits- you shouldn't be drinking/ smoking/ eating that much if you REALLY want to have a full life? Or- try and get them to visualise what it must take to get to the point where someone wants to take their own life?

I don't really have any ideas. Maybe it's lazy but I can't see things meaningfully changing in my lifetime- no matter what I do. I'm not so sure they'll ever legitimise assisted suicide for someone who is relatively healthy. Still- I agree- if things like MAID do get rolled out across the world- perhaps attitudes will slowly start to change. It'll likely be too late to help us though. I guess I'm selfish at the end of the day. I don't have kin to worry about. I feel sorry for the future generations but not enough to fight for them now. I'm afraid, they're on their own- just like we were. I only feel relieved that I didn't create a child to negotiate through all this.

Yeah I don't see voluntary euthanasia (the way we envision) legalized in our lifetimes, and perhaps it may be expanded (could be many years or so from present day) to include more groups of people (not just limited to the terminally ill). Ideally, it would be legalized for those with severe illnesses, disabilities, handicaps, and/or decline (not necessarily terminal) which most of us may encounter later in our lives (such as when we reach the age of infirmity or even twilight years - assuming we live many decades from now), thus being able to "benefit" from it. Albeit not exactly the way we wish, but at the minimum, a peaceful way out.

I like the idea of flipping the script on pro-lifers. This is a bit tangential, but I wish they would get involved in death penalty abolition instead of proselytizing to people who want to ctb. If they genuinely want to save lives, they could be trying to save people who want to live!

I'm not here to argue about capital punishment with anyone who disagrees, just saying that a person with pro-life views has options about how to do advocacy and who needs it most.

Then again, the ones that show up here don't seem very smart or nuanced in their understanding of reasons for ctb (i.e. trauma, physical and/or mental illness, stressors of poverty, abuses within the healthcare system, etc.) OR the fact that many of us have already explored (and continue to participate in) the solutions they like to suggest (i.e. therapy, social support, psych meds, "fun activities", etc.).

As you mention, I would also love to see pro-choice stories in film or other media. I also agree that the culture around death needs an overhaul.

Absolutely on point. Their efforts would be better used when spent on people who WANT TO LIVE rather than wasting it (and causing more suffering) by forcing it towards people who resent the idea of life and (continued, forced) sentience. Also, what you said about most pro-lifers not being bright and/or open-minded enough is definitely true, they are too lazy and stubborn to actually consider the fact that their tired and trite platitudes, intervention aren't helping the overall situation (may even exacerbate things). Finally, yes more movies showing the right to die or at least not glorifying living at all costs and casting death in a more 'neutral' light would certainly help turn the tide of public opinion and lessen the stigma of the topic of death itself.

In general pro-lifers seem very hyper-focused on stopping the act of suicide itself in every way possible as opposed to actually addressing many of the root causes. It feels like they also tend to just give blanket recommendations revolving around accessing therapy and the like instead of engaging in actual discussion. Don't get me wrong, I do fully support mental health professionals and the work they do, but it's utterly delusional to treat it as a magic cure-all pill that everyone can easily access, and simply redirecting people to access such services while covering their ears and ignoring all criticism is just frankly idiotic.

Yeah, that's a major bulk of the contentions and issues surrounding our struggles with prohibitive society and the people who refuse to acknowledge the right to die as a valid option and that wanting to die is not the result (nor indicative) of a irrational mind, but can be of a sound decision after careful consideration and deliberation of whether (continued) life and suffering is worth it (for the individual). It's ironic how when it comes to other (also permanent) life changing decisions, pro-lifers don't seem to be as adamant and pushy when people make those decisions, yet when it comes to death and the cessation of suffering, they immediately jump to the conclusion that it is the decision not made of sound mind (ironic). Also, yes what you said is true that mainstream society and the normies (the masses) don't seem to listen nor engage in good faith discussions about the right to die and wanting to end (or minimize) suffering for the individual. They are indeed delusional to just peddle banal advice while ignoring all criticism and any contrary views that may go against their atavistic morals and world views. Religion and pro-life indoctrination from early age is a big part to blame, but that's for another topic.