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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
7,159
One of the more uncommon, but interesting arguments that come from pro-lifers, anti-choicers, and similar people are that if 'X' (where X could be anyone or individual) decided to CTB or gave up trying, then 'X' would have missed out on (insert certain thing, event, accomplishment, contribution, etc.). However, I have a counterargument to that. My counterargument is that even if said person, 'X' did recover (albeit at much later time, they would still have missed out something great during their absence or during debility or their worse times). I will elaborate more and give an example to convey my argument in depth.

For example, there is an extremely talented pianist (Leon Fleisher) who played at very high levels of performance, basically a world renowned concert pianist, however, during near the peak of his concert pianist career, he suffered a neurological disorder, called focal dystonia, which affected his ability to perform, let alone have full functional use of some of his fingers on his right hand. This effectively ended his career as a concert pianist and he suffered for many decades. While he did end up doing other career paths, to me, it was more of a 'cope' (which is valid if he accepted and embraced it – which he did but again, not everyone is similar to he). One day, he recovered and ended up playing again, albeit not to the same degree of mastery and level that he'd liked but he was satisfied.

Now people would ask, how does this example prove my argument and my argument is that even though he did make a recovery due to medical advancements later in his life, it wasn't until he was near his twilight years (in his 60's) and senior age, which by then he wouldn't have the same stamina as he did when he was younger. So in a sense, there was still "missing out" of what his career at his absolute peak could have been and while regained a lot of function and was able to play extraordinarily well even into his senior age, he still missed out on what he could have gotten. Again, while not everyone is similar to Leon Fleisher's case, the point still stands, that for some (or perhaps many more that we don't know of) people, missing out is still missing out.

One other small example is when someone is in their 20's or 30's suffering a false incarceration and one day, even if/when they are exonerated from prison, they lost the years of their adult life that they will never experience nor attain and no matter what happens post-exoneration, they will still always miss it and nothing could fully or truly replace the lost experience. While they could move forward in their senior and twilight years, they will always miss out on what they may have yearn for. Sure coping is one thing but for some people, missing out on something that is irrecoverable and irreplaceable is just too much.

Therefore, to summarize things up and using my examples the way I did, is basically that even if one was able to recover, sometimes it may not always be what they want. Many people ultimately think that well if they recover (even if it may be decades – which most people won't even wait that long, let alone a few years), that it should be good, despite the damage already done or losses already incurred. A lot people just seem to ignore the fact of 'irreplaceable experiences' and think that 'new experiences' in the present and future is good enough, but that itself is just a 'cope'. Finally, I'll close with a disclaimer: I'm not trying gatekeep or dictate what one deems acceptable or not; but simply pointing out the argument that just because there is a much delayed or different recovery doesn't suddenly make life/sentience worth it again. Ultimately, it is STILL up to each individual to hold that subjective value for themselves and themselves only.
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
12,956
If 'X' had given up and CTB'd, then 'X' would have missed out on (insert thing)!

This assumes that 'X' lives on in another dimension. The fact is, once we're dead, whatever happens we won't know about it - things can become worse but also better. But there's no guarantee for anything.

I can say - if I CTBed in 2023, I would've missed out on a few things I enjoyed recently, but if I CTBed in 2023, I also wouldn't have missed out on anything bc I'm long gone and I wouldn't exist in this reality anymore.

None of us can take anything onto the other side, and that's why we actually can't miss out on anything once we're dead and not in this world anymore.

I hope that makes sense.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
7,159
Perhaps we are talking about slightly different things here, but I guess my article and topic was more focused on those who are suffering and that even if they could recover (but not feasibly or in a what would be considered a reasonable amount of time, maybe 10-20 years, or even 30+ years - assuming that one is willing to wait that long to begin with), they would still have ended up missing out (or losing) something, so if they had CTB'd instead of waiting out 10-20 or even 30+ years to have some meager (to them) recovery it wouldn't necessarily be worth the price paid of suffering until they get there. So in short, my point is about that if people like Leon Fleisher or similar CTB'd in their 30's or whenever before they had a cure (even a partial one), then they wouldn't endure nor experience missing out on a potential that never or could have been had when they are older (ultimately, Fleisher lived until his 80's before passing away).

In the off chance that perhaps you are referring to something else, I will address the point you mentioned. Yes, you are correct that once one is dead (or no longer sentient anymore), then one cannot miss anything as one would lack the capability to 'miss out'. Also, you are correct that non of us can take anything from our current state of sentience to the other side (presuming that one is conscious enough to experience the other side - depending on one's beliefs but objectively speaking the void/nothingness is probably the most likely outcome according to logic and science).

I believe I understand your points though and the points you made are also valid too.
 
S

Scythe

Lost in a delusion
Sep 5, 2022
671
The thing is these things are usually taken into account. A suicidal person who's not doing it in the moment would likely think about these things at some point. They would be aware of the sequels they miss by dying and they choose to die despite it all. We are choosing to miss out on future fun so we can also "miss out" on future suffering.

There's also the more common agrument to this, which is no matter when someone dies they are missing out on something.
 
Vorty30

Vorty30

The Point Extractor
Oct 10, 2023
40
Honestly? Why waste time wondering about pro lifer stupidity that makes zero sense at the end of the day? It's as good as any other of their platitude tactics meant to trick you. The time I waste listening to what an ignorant pro lifer cuck has to say, might as well be the useful time I make peace, come to terms with things and plan my leave as well as finding closure without some asshole calling an ambulance and law enforcers on me.
Don't get me wrong, what you wrote is beyond true, it does prove a point... But at the end of the day, the less a person who is hell bent on leaving listens to this emotional black mail, the more close they will be to CTB or even finding a true path to Recovery, believe it or not.
 
TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
7,159
@Scythe Yes, I suppose that is true, though I just wrote this article mainly to expose the flaws and counter the argument that pro-lifer use. But yes, what you said is definitely true, especially about how people will always miss things on the grand scheme of things, whether they die sooner versus later in life.

We are choosing to miss out on future fun so we can also "miss out" on future suffering.

I like this sentence and it's succinctly summarized.

@Vorty30 To answer your question, sometimes I do ponder it, but there are moments where I have a clarity moment where I found something new or interesting and decided that I would share it on SaSu. Of course, just because I think about these things and philosophize and analyze stuff, doesn't mean that I'm not working towards my eventual CTB. I try to tune out pro-life spiel in day to day life, but there are times where I also write articles to vent, share my thoughts, and in hopes someone on SaSu may find it interesting (even long into the future after I CTB).
 

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