[Article] How denial through deferment, passing the buck, is insidious when it comes to CTB prevention

[TAW122]

In previous, older threads (linked here, also here, and also another one here) I talked about how pro-lifers and anti-choicers use a (on the surface) reasonable argument to give the impression of being pro-choice, but in actuality, it is not. In this article, which is continuing from older threads in the past when I wrote about how pro-lifers, anti-choicers often use a cunning, yet deceptive (especially when one is able to read between the lines) means to make it seem like they are offering an 'out' for those who want to CTB, but in reality, it is nothing more than a talking point, or false promise at best. Over time, be it weeks, months, or even years (many years for the matter), it goes back to the same, tired old adage of "Nooooo, you can't CTB!" or similar phrases. It is as if they never "count" the initial desire and decision and write it off as zero, or even just 'resetting the count', meaning they treat every single would-be decision to always be the first time as if previous continued desires to die (on one's own terms) was invalid.

I will however, make one minute concession though, and the only time that such a statement by pro-lifers ("give it X amount of time (where X could be months, or years, presumably a few years or so) and then if you still feel the same, then you can" or any similar statements) would be valid and actually count is IF and ONLY IF they recognized what they said and do not renege on it, which of course, is very, very rare, if ever. Otherwise, it is considered "denial through deferment" as in the case of stalling and delaying time, only to later deny the decision altogether. It is a deceptive tactic because it shows that they never wanted to allow choice, but just the mere illusion of choice (which is de facto a non-choice, or no choice at all).

For example, here is a scenario (of course, there are many different examples and this is only one of many examples) where denial through deferment is played out. An Internet user on Reddit, (presumably the age of majority and likely in their 20's) particularly on a subreddit called 'SuicideWatch' talked about how life sucked and wanted to die and what not. Naturally, many other users on there often state "Don't do it!" and try to dissuade the user from going through with CTB, and then there are some users who state "If said user still feels that way in the coming year or two (or whatever arbitrary time), then they can do it" or some similar statement such as "You can always CTB later, give xyz a try," along with many various comments, especially those who defer the decision of CTB. However! That is only true and the case if and only and if the same said user was not repeatedly and continuously denied, talked down in the future down the road. However, the same said user posted (perhaps month later, or maybe even over a year later) and still feels the same, unwavering desire to CTB, and presumably have done their best (which isn't for other strangers who don't know said user to judge!), yet are met with the same tired comments dissuading said user not to do it, and such. This is one of many examples of where 'denial through deferment' happens. In such a scenario, the pro-lifers never really respected said user's choice nor situation, and simply wanted to obstruct and dissuade said user from the user's decision. If said user was offended (or even worse than that), and retaliated with nasty responses, it would have made sense because the same people led the user under false pretenses that CTB was an option and continuously denied said user the option, not only trapping the user in further continued misery, but also betrayed the user's trust of others.

So in conclusion, whenever pro-lifers offer the option of later CTB, it is often disingenuous and deceptive in nature as it doesn't ultimately respect the person's right to die, but only merely gives an false perception of an option when in fact there is/was never an option to CTB! Ultimately, pro-lifers (unless they made the exception and can be proven that they uphold their own words) are not to be trusted and even if they give the impression of choice, it is nothing more than mere illusion/deception of choice. Personally, I would never entertain that myself and if I were to CTB, I'd just do it, but I digress.

 

[thisIsNotEnough]

Good writeup, I wish I could put my thoughts into words that well still.

I compare this ask to encouraging someone to continue gambling to illustrate just how wrong it is. Say you've been playing slots for hours and hours, losing way more than you've won, and you say to someone who 'cares about you', "hey, I think I should stop now, I keep losing". And then they say, "nooo, just play 10 more spins, you might still win!"

And if you're convinced and do 10 more spins, lose, and want to quit, you'll be told, "oh keep going, I'm sure you'll win big eventually and make up for it!" Seriously, this is implicitly asking people to bet on an eventual end to their reason for desiring to ctb while still alive, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

Slots is rigged, just like the game of life is for many of us, and sometimes the best choice is to just stop playing

 

[starboy2k]

i'm so glad someone called this bullshit faux–pro-choice tidbit out.

the same people who say that "just give it x amount of time, and if you are still depressed then you can kill yourself" shit to you are the same fucking people who will say,
"well, if you wanted to kill yourself, you would have done so by now," or worse, they will try to get you involuntarily hospitalized.

i've said this so many times before, and i will gladly say it again: this is why i no longer talk about my suicidal desires.
the fake-ass savior complex humans generally have disgust me to no end.

 

[venerated-vader]

and then there are some users who state "If said user still feels that way in the coming year or two (or whatever arbitrary time), then they can do it" or some similar statement such as "You can always CTB later, give xyz a try," along with many various comments, especially those who defer the decision of CTB. However! That is only true and the case if and only and if the same said user was not repeatedly and continuously denied, talked down in the future down the road.

This 100000%. And it works because they know, and WE know, that ctb is hard as hell. The instinct to preserve our lives is so powerful, being deferred like that and then being gaslit into doing it again, and agin, and again, is reminiscent of the bargaining part of grief. "If I try xyz, maybe it'll be okay" "If I wait a little bit, maybe I'll feel better." Some people's situations are utterly hopeless in that respect. So, far be it from me to dictate the choices others make. But I can't deny that, if someone I really cared about felt this way and told me they were ready, I would be compelled (whether or not I said so) to ask them to wait it out. What a selfish thing to ask of someone when there is oftentimes nothing that can be done— that any of us might extend our suffering to spare others grief or help them convince themselves that they're 'good people' for 'saving a life', when we're out here being tortured through no fault of our own, by the absurdity of existence. Yet in a way I can't blame them because as I said, I too am selfish, and stuck clinging desperately to the few people I love so that I'm not forced to endure this miserable life perpetually grieving and alone.

I consider it to be the same as how people handle money. Every person struggling for cash (like me, my friends, family, etc) claim that, the second they have the money, they'll be willing to share it with others. That they'd help and support homeless folx, or donate, or give to charities. Yet the second we have enough to spare, we invariably spend it on ourselves, on the creature comforts we can otherwise not afford. Obviously that isn't everyone, but most people I know have done that. We're all saviors and hopeful martyrs until we're the ones with the opportunity to critique and judge another. Or, perhaps that's just me and my bitterness.