[Article] CTB prevention, the true motive is more nefarious than imagined…

[TAW122]

I may be preaching to the choir here with respect to CTB prevention as most of us know about the malicious and harmful actions of preventionists, prolifers, and pro-sufferers. However, in this article I'm going to elaborate and explain how the true motive is much more nefarious than what it is than what is shown on the surface. So with that said, here is why the true motive of CTB prevention is more nefarious than what one perceives.

The true motive of CTB prevention despite it being sold under the guise of benevolence and "help", is all about control and imposition of (the prolifer's and the status quo's) will. What do I mean by this? Preventionists and prolifers oftenly have an ulterior motive for doing so, and it's all about their ego. It's (almost) never about the person that they are interfering with (aka trying to prevent the person from CTB'ing). Prolifers don't like it when their ego is threatened or their perception of life is challenged (e.g. Life is good, life is valuable, life is sacred, etc.), so anything that goes against that value is automatically deemed incorrect, irrational, and even just immoral. They would do just about anything to discredit, invalidate, gaslight anyone who holds contrary views to that view (almost like their view is the only right view – which we (as prochoicers) know isn't true!). This is why there are many institutions, albeit not necessarily religious in nature, will often do anything and everything to discredit, invalidate, and/or otherwise rule someone who holds contrary or dissenting views from their values as irrational or incapable and then seek to assert their authority over such individual(s) holding such views.

The prolifers and preventionists don't care about the repercussions received by the prochoicers and/or dissidents of such views and instead, claim victory whenever they have interfered, prevented, or otherwise cause harm to others as long as their target (prochoicers and anyone who doesn't share their beliefs) is alive, regardless of the situation. So right off the bat, it is all about ego and control. If prolifers don't have knowledge of someone who is CTB'ing, planning to CTB, or even signs (red flags) of people going to CTB, then they wouldn't feel threatened or challenged. It's only when they have knowledge of it that it bothers them. Just think about the people around the world (oftenly in third world countries and/or other places outside of developed countries), there are certainly many who die, whether it is by other causes or by CTB (albeit painfully and with tremendous suffering), but you (almost never) hear about prolifers going out of their way to intervene or to prevent those people from CTB'ing or even meddle in their business(es). Why is that the case? Again, this is just proof that prolifers are only concerned that their life view is challenged, threatened, or brought into the light (in an unfavorable position) and that they just want to assert their dominance and will over those who challenge them (holding contrary beliefs that challenge or otherwise challenge the status quo of "life is good/sacred/valuable.").

Another example is destitute and homeless people in poverty around the world, including those in the US. Consider the US for instance. Suppose there is someone who has been homeless, in poverty on the streets and just barely being able to have their needs (let alone their wants) and would easily die from the elements, other causes (other people, disease, accidents, etc.), and pro-lifers are alright with said person dying from anything but CTB. In fact, pro-lifers would even try to stop/intervene said person from CTB'ing just to stroke their ego while feeding false hope and lies to the person that things will get better. In other words, this simple example shows and proves that prolifers don't care about people dying, even if it means suffering, they only care about acting like a hero, imposing their will (while receiving praises from their peers, the masses, and people in charge) on the unfortunate and those they deem inferior/lower than them, and then going about their day with their egos stroked. It is disgusting they would be ok with said person dying from other causes that isn't CTB or on said person's own terms, but just not by CTB.

 

[Aisley]

Hopefully not going too far off track by bringing in online interference, but a good example of this, imo, is whom these trolls wiil and will NOT interact with just on this site. I don't want to name people specifically, cuz it might be rude to talk about people who aren't in the room, but there are a few people here, for whom death would be an OBJECTIVE deliverance, and you will never see a troll in their comment threads. Never. Like they know how shallow their arguments are, and they need targets who meet their narratives. And the fact that there are people outside that narrative and in desperate immediate need is known, seen, but never acknowledged. Just stepped around like puddles.

 

[FuneralCry]

The whole idea of suicide prevention is just absurd as we are all just going to die anyway, it's like they forget that and suicide is just the way for one to reach their inevitable fate at a time of their own choosing. Death cannot really be prevented anyway as it's all that we are destined for, so it comes across as so inhumane to want to prolong someone else's unnecessary suffering all for the sake of it. It's true that they just don't want to face the fact that wanting suicide is perfectly logical in this world, they are just blinded by delusional beliefs, to me it makes a lot of sense for someone to want to take control over their inevitable fate to avoid dying at a time out of their control and prevent all future suffering in the process.

 

[lucines]

Another example is destitute and homeless people in poverty around the world, including those in the US. Consider the US for instance. Suppose there is someone who has been homeless, in poverty on the streets and just barely being able to have their needs (let alone their wants) and would easily die from the elements, other causes (other people, disease, accidents, etc.), and pro-lifers are alright with said person dying from anything but CTB. In fact, pro-lifers would even try to stop/intervene said person from CTB'ing just to stroke their ego while feeding false hope and lies to the person that things will get better. In other words, this simple example shows and proves that prolifers don't care about people dying, even if it means suffering, they only care about acting like a hero, imposing their will (while receiving praises from their peers, the masses, and people in charge) on the unfortunate and those they deem inferior/lower than them, and then going about their day with their egos stroked. It is disgusting they would be ok with said person dying from other causes that isn't CTB or on said person's own terms, but just not by CTB.

Honestly I think that within the group of pro-lifers many wouldn't care about homeless people or other undesirables dying by suicide as long as they do it quietly and out of sight. It's considered inapproriate to outright state that you consider certain people to be less valuable than others so they'll pretend to fully support mainstream suicide prevention efforts but privately they rejoice whenever, from their perspective, the trash takes itself out.

 

[TAW122]

Hopefully not going too far off track by bringing in online interference, but a good example of this, imo, is whom these trolls wiil and will NOT interact with just on this site. I don't want to name people specifically, cuz it might be rude to talk about people who aren't in the room, but there are a few people here, for whom death would be an OBJECTIVE deliverance, and you will never see a troll in their comment threads. Never. Like they know how shallow their arguments are, and they need targets who meet their narratives. And the fact that there are people outside that narrative and in desperate immediate need is known, seen, but never acknowledged. Just stepped around like puddles.

Yeah, I agree that most prolifers lack any meaningful arguments and sadly, they like to pick on those who are less likely to defend themselves.

The whole idea of suicide prevention is just absurd as we are all just going to die anyway, it's like they forget that and suicide is just the way for one to reach their inevitable fate at a time of their own choosing. Death cannot really be prevented anyway as it's all that we are destined for, so it comes across as so inhumane to want to prolong someone else's unnecessary suffering all for the sake of it. It's true that they just don't want to face the fact that wanting suicide is perfectly logical in this world, they are just blinded by delusional beliefs, to me it makes a lot of sense for someone to want to take control over their inevitable fate to avoid dying at a time out of their control and prevent all future suffering in the process.

Yes, sadly, most of them are blinded by delusional logic and worse yet, is when that logic challenged, they would do almost anything to protect their own delusions, including resorting to discrediting logical arguments and denying reality.

Honestly I think that within the group of pro-lifers many wouldn't care about homeless people or other undesirables dying by suicide as long as they do it quietly and out of sight. It's considered inapproriate to outright state that you consider certain people to be less valuable than others so they'll pretend to fully support mainstream suicide prevention efforts but privately they rejoice whenever, from their perspective, the trash takes itself out.

That's a good point, it seems like they just don't "outwardly" express their feelings and perhaps even like you said, they will privately rejoice (as wrong and horrible as they are) when the people society (and they themselves) deem undesirable are gone, whether it is quietly/out of sight and/or death from other causes. In other words, a lot of these prolifers are just virtual signalers, meaning they preach the mainstream mantra (CTB is bad! No one (including the undesirables) deserves to die! etc.) while quietly (themselves) wishing that these undesirable people are gone from this world. So in a sense, they are upholding the social norms of "CTB is always bad!" by virtuously signaling but at the same time finding a loop hole with mental gymnastics to justify their disdain and hypocrisy about certain groups of people they deem undesirable.

Edit: Now that I think about it a bit more... I suppose that logic (regarding virtual signaling) can be applied to "just about" every attempted or otherwise successful CTB. It is de facto a crime to 'attempt' CTB (even if it isn't listed as such - but simply treated as one) as the consequences of one getting caught before the act, during the act, or even after the act (presumably a failed act), results in restrictions to one's civil liberties and human rights, akin to that of a suspected criminal.

Additionally, I had another idea. Perhaps if there was an "anonymous" survey sent to many different people around the masses from all walks of life, like say maybe 1000 or even 10k participants with regards to CTB rights and what not. Perhaps there might be some more "honest" answers as people will be more willing to share their "true" stance under the shroud of anonymity and knowing that they cannot be ousted/outted by the survey.

 

[Aisley]

Honestly I think that within the group of pro-lifers many wouldn't care about homeless people or other undesirables dying by suicide as long as they do it quietly and out of sight. It's considered inapproriate to outright state that you consider certain people to be less valuable than others so they'll pretend to fully support mainstream suicide prevention efforts but privately they rejoice whenever, from their perspective, the trash takes itself out.

Indeed. I knew a few men on the streets who drank themselves to death. I mean that they did this intentionally, understood worsening symptoms as getting closer to it, then achieved it, and no one ever intervened there. Even threw them change or bags of empty bottles to help them along, when every step in the process was very obviously exactly what it looked like.

 

[EternalShore]

You make a good case, but I'm not so sure. I've done a little thinking, and I'd say that different groups have different reasons for stopping CTB'ing.
Religious people is probably the easiest. Either, they view it as a moral wrong, and they want to stop people from doing bad things. Or they believe you go to Hell if you do it, and they want everyone to go to Heaven.
You were kinda describing why I'm pretty sure our overlords don't want us to CTB. They desire to have power over our lives and want us to be their forever wage slaves. Now, I highly doubt they care even the slightest bit about us, the dregs of society, even as a group but they do care about their own economic gains and don't want actually useful/productive workers suddenly CTB'ing because they're being abused and hate their lives.
Now, the rest, the atheists/secularists are probably just bending to societal expectations (desiring to feel like a good person to everyone else), pro-life propaganda, or are humanists.

 

[TAW122]

Indeed. I knew a few men on the streets who drank themselves to death. I mean that they did this intentionally, understood worsening symptoms as getting closer to it, then achieved it, and no one ever intervened there. Even threw them change or bags of empty bottles to help them along, when every step in the process was very obviously exactly what it looked like.

That's interesting and while I myself haven't hung around with people on the streets nor interacted with them enough to have a large enough sample size, perhaps this means that people are (secretly and subtly) sending the message that they would rather those people on the streets die, but of course, just not direct CTB, but "indirect" CTB while still being within social norms.

You make a good case, but I'm not so sure. I've done a little thinking, and I'd say that different groups have different reasons for stopping CTB'ing.
Religious people is probably the easiest. Either, they view it as a moral wrong, and they want to stop people from doing bad things. Or they believe you go to Hell if you do it, and they want everyone to go to Heaven.
You were kinda describing why I'm pretty sure our overlords don't want us to CTB. They desire to have power over our lives and want us to be their forever wage slaves. Now, I highly doubt they care even the slightest bit about us, the dregs of society, even as a group but they do care about their own economic gains and don't want actually useful/productive workers suddenly CTB'ing because they're being abused and hate their lives.
Now, the rest, the atheists/secularists are probably just bending to societal expectations (desiring to feel like a good person to everyone else), pro-life propaganda, or are humanists.

Excellent points and summary of people in different categories. I suppose one of the most logically inconsistent groups of people who are against CTB are those who are just following societal expectations and/or humanists. Some of these societal expectations are of course, religious in nature.

 

[onegoodreason]

Look at what canada is doing! They are encouraging euthanasia even just for being poor!!?!? I've had the thought cross my mind to go there just for that!? But even kommiefornication has it available for terminally ill people. I'm not sure if that's been expanded to other circumstances yet or not, though. I don't have a terminal illness, almost wish I did, but I'd go that way if I could. Would have taken the coof jabs if it were a certain quick death, but I really don't want to go to God/dess altered in that way. I want to maintain my Humanity, not some dna altered zombie that God/dess wouldn't recognize. Anyone who took the jabs will die far sooner than they would have otherwise.

 

[Lucilius]

Honestly I think that within the group of pro-lifers many wouldn't care about homeless people or other undesirables dying by suicide as long as they do it quietly and out of sight. It's considered inapproriate to outright state that you consider certain people to be less valuable than others so they'll pretend to fully support mainstream suicide prevention efforts but privately they rejoice whenever, from their perspective, the trash takes itself out.

This, absolutely. Same goes for queer people, drug addicts and many other groups.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think some of them GENUINELY believe that ALL ideation is due to depression though. That depression is a mental illness- or- at the very least- has warped that person's thinking and that presumably- it can ALWAYS be cured. I'm not saying I agree with that- I'm just trying to view it from their standpoint. I suppose some of them MAY actually have good intentions.

While it sounds terribly patronizing to many of us and others would refute this idea of mental illness all together, I suppose they're saying- We're sorry that you're 'sick' and therefore see the world through this pessimistic lens but we want to help you. I do actually think someone who TRULY loves life and has kindness in their heart wants everyone else to feel the same. I think SOMETIMES it can be INTENDED to be kind.

Of course- what they don't seem to take on board is that quite often blaming mental illness tends to infringe on a person's assumed mental capacity and ability/ right to bodily autonomy. It can come across as incredibly patronizing too when a more or less stranger seems to proclaim to know more about your life, your history, your thinking and what you need to be doing to make things better for yourself. Plus- most importantly of course- it denies choice. We allow one another to make dubious choices in life because we value our free will. Even choices that ultimately lead to early death. CTB seems to be the exception to that rule. I suppose it is because to them at any rate- it's something that just doesn't compute.

I think there probably are many types of motivation for suicide prevention. I think SOME of them may be from a place of kindness. That doesn't stop them from being invasive though and- just as difficult to argue against because pro-lifers simply can't seem to get their heads around someone not wanting to live.

Even though the intention MIGHT be kind- quite often the arguments they use are the same and just as underhand- questioning mental capacity due to mental 'illness'. Maybe even a bit of emotional blackmail if all else fails- think of what it would do to others? Etc.

 

[willitpass]

I think MOST pro life people come from a good place and often times they come from a place of grief after having lost someone to suicide. They individually want to help someone get through a tough time that they believe is temporary. Do they always go about it the right way? No, but it isn't exactly easy to know how to help someone, especially if they don't want the help in the first place. Empty platitudes and throwing someone in the looney bin and telling them to go on a walk don't exactly help, but it isn't malicious. It doesn't help and often times is more frustrating and isolating, but they don't do it with ill intent. When I encounter them I usually just nod, smile, and move on.

However, as with anything, there are the extremists, who have to take things well beyond what is ever going to be helpful. That is where you get FixThe26, who are willing to dox suicidal people and call them murderers, Tantacruel, who is willing to tell the entire site that we murder minors, and those who come in here to attack people who are already on the edge of a cliff. All because they apparently have the omniscience to know who here is truly suicidal and who apparently comes to urge people to do it.