[Article] Counterargument to “CTB doesn’t solve the problem (at hand)”

[TAW122]

This is something that I hear and similar statements such as "CTB is never the answer!", "CTB will not solve xyz!" whenever there are situations where victims are faced with insurmountable or almost unsolvable problems with long term (sometimes permanent) damage and suffering. This is generally said by anti-bullying groups when it comes to victims of bullying (not limited to children, adolescents, but also adults as well), but can be applied to other situations too, though in this thread will mainly focus on the domain with respect to victims of bullying.

While it is true that CTB may not solve the problem at it's root, I believe such an argument made by anti-bullying people (Just for the record, I'm against bullying and it is not a good thing! Bullies must be held accountable when and where possible!) stems from two premises, one in a journey to justice (making the bully face consequences and also reforming the system to prevent/minimize further future harm or any future prospective victims), and the other is having a target/project (basically someone who is under them) so they can feel elevated and heroic in their actions. Essentially, the victims of bullying serve that purpose (unfortunately) and just as merely the anti-bullying advocates (ABA's) ends. Another statement that ABA's throw, which of course is pro-life in nature, is "if you (the victim) CTBs, then the bullies win!" Sure, it could be construed as a way to encourage one to continue fighting, but in some cases, further struggle and resistance is futile as winning against the perpetrators (the bullies) is simply just not possible (dependent on situation, of course).

So my counterargument to said argument is that "Not all bullies will face justice nor are there guarantees that the victim will not suffer permanent damage and trauma over time. However, by CTB'ing, it guarantees that all future suffering will not come to pass. While CTB'ing alone doesn't solve the problem, it additionally also prevents future damage as the dead can no longer be exploited, taken advantage of." This does NOT imply that I endorse CTB as a universal solution to all problems! I am still in support for having alternate solutions as a compromise and concession, such that CTB is a VALID option should said person decide that his/her suffering is too much to bear and intolerable, unacceptable.

With that said, while a lot of ABAs have good intentions (depending on what your end goal is) they are unfortunately also pro-lifers in the sense that they could at least pat themselves on the back for feeling "better" and helping (even if they don't make an impact) on the victim's quality of life, however, since a lot of ABAs are mainly there for clout and virtue signaling, CTB'ing in such situations will take away the opportunity for pro-lifers to virtue signal, which I believe to be a good thing because they aren't helping the victim by virtue signaling, but just trying to pad their ego, but I digress.

On another note, in the Netherlands, a rape victim was allowed by medical professionals to seek passive euthanasia after suffering greatly with little to no improvement and potentially life-long suffering. Had she been an US citizen or in most other countries in the world, she would be subject to indefinite suffering; not limited to: endless therapies, counseling, experimental treatments (including medication that has yet to be approved), and many more indignities that are a part of life in addition to her own suffering. She will just be perpetually kept alive until natural causes and/or other causes of death. It is appalling how this is allowed to happen in many countries (including the US) outside of the few that have strong voluntary and pro-death with dignity laws on the books.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree. I've always found that a weird statement- 'killing yourself means the bullies have won'. Again- like you- I'm not advocating that suicide is the answer. Still- that phrase seems to assume that these victims want to fight back. I'd say it's equally, if not more likely that they don't. They simply want to be left alone. They have probably been targeted in the first place because they are passive people. I think it's true that bullies are frequently cowards- they don't tend to pick on people that fight back. So- we're supposed to become like them in order to survive in this world are we? And- that's a good thing?

Plus- do bullies really want to get rid of their source of pleasure? I'd say we can assume they enjoy picking on people. I mean- definitely- the ideal would be to be able to ignore them. Rise above and achieve some hugely successful life in spite of them. Or- if you're older and able to- take legal action against them. Teach them a lesson.

Plenty of people struggle to do that though. Patterns in life repeat too. People with abusive parents quite often end up with abusive partners. Absolutely fine if they want to make steps to change their life around- good luck to them but I agree- I hate this forced obligation to.

'The bullies will win'. What will they win? Narcissistic supply? Some sadistic sense of satisfaction? More time in this world? Let them have it. They deserve one another. Again- I'm NOT advocating for suicide. However- I don't think it will be as clean a picture as that. Even if they themselves feel some secret sense of achievement (which I actually doubt to some extent- unless they are psychopathic- I doubt many of them actually intend to drive someone to suicide,) plenty of other people will know they bullied that person mercilessly. I doubt everyone will be in support of that. They may not wish to have that death on their conscience but I imagine at least some people will blame them. They may even get bullied themselves for it! Again, I'm not advocating for suicide. I'm just trying to pick holes in the statement.

Also- this idea of these bullies gloating over your death. Depends on what you believe of course but- we likely won't be around to see it!

I'd say a lot of victims of bullying simply want to escape. Plenty of them aren't vindictive themselves. As a case in point, I feel sure I grew up with a narcissist. They were the reason I first became suicidal. People who know them seem to delight in telling me when they are struggling in life- like I should feel satisfied by that or something. Karma has finally caught up with them type of thing. But- it doesn't help me. I don't particularly wish bad things on them. I just want them out of my life completely. I don't like thinking about them at all.

Yet- while we are alive- we do have to think about them. It's hard to banish all those memories. It takes effort to work through trauma and we carry all that shit with us. It has likely already screwed up our lives to this point- otherwise, we wouldn't be considering suicide.

But- we should still fight? For what, or who? For some abstract sense of justice? Will the people that bullied us be so obsessed with us that they are scrutinizing what we are doing with our lives? Firstly, that assumes we are still in contact with them. Who tries to remain in touch with their bullies?!! Maybe they've grown out of it and changed or- maybe they are now bullying someone else. How do these people really think we should fight these people? By continuing to live and be bullied by them? To live some incredible life and hope they are watching? To somehow fight back? How? Do they really think we can change them?

Sorry but- haven't they already kind of won if they are making someone's life so bad that it makes them want to kill themselves? Are all these bullies secretly murderers? No- some might be but I'd say most are simply bullies. They need people around in order to bully them! It isn't their main goal to kill them- surely!

 

[FuneralCry]

I see all suffering as meaningless, undesirable and unnecessary, and I don't get how suicide could ever be a bad thing as one cannot suffer from not existing. Whatever problems people have in this existence will all be erased once one finally ceases to exist anyway, yet there is no limit as to how much one can suffer as long as they exist.

It's just disgusting not to accept suicide as a valid option as it always is, to me it's really understandable wanting to ctb because of the cruelty of other people as only death can offer true freedom from the harm humans cause.