[Article] Another glib argument that pro-lifers like to make about death being easy

[TAW122]

This is an extension (and also similar) of the argument of that if one really wanted to die, they would do so. Not only is that argument really glib, flippant, and insensitive, but also ignorant and inaccurate too! It ignores the fact that people have a survival instinct (aka self preservation instinct) and that one will instinctively do everything to prevent oneself from suffering harm, including actions that result in more suffering or are contrary to logic. This is because the self-preservation instinct is not a logic instinct, but built through many years of human/organism evolution to prevent suffering or death.

Additionally, just because there are people who are unfortunate (in the eyes of the pro-lifers) to have died when they least expect it does not mean that it was painless, comfortable, nor dignified. Yes, there are people who die in car crashes, natural disasters, unpredictable accidents, health related reasons, and/or even violent tragedies. However, the main difference is that those people did not plan for such an event, and while their suffering ultimately ended, their bus was neither pleasant nor peaceful.

As a bonus point, I vehemently and strongly disagree with what my father claims (when I was younger) that death is too easy, and that because so many people die throughout humanity's history, therefore we (as a society) have to become more proactive in preventing death (as much as possible). Surviving itself isn't hard, but living well is difficult. It's rather a glib claim to assert that because if living things are deprived of basic needs, it will succumb to death (which is true), but during the process of death is arduous, torturous, and drawn-out.

Therefore, this argument just shows how insensitive and ignorant pro-lifers are when it comes to death itself. Just because for most of humanity's existence and history (especially in the early ages, hundreds or even thousands of years ago) death was common and usually from preventable causes (especially with modern advances in medicine, society, and advancements in technology), does not mean that those deaths were planned, intended, nor peaceful. It is simply a poor argument and ignorant view that because death was too common, humanity itself had to become grossly pro-life and prohibitive when it comes to CTB and death.

While it is true that it may be easy for people (who don't wish to die) to die due to unforeseen, uncontrollable situations (such as bad luck, accidents, and/or other non-self inflicted causes), they are often dying in the worst possible ways. They are suffering immensely as they are dying, and while they do die (against their will and not intended to) does not mean they died with dignity or peace. What we pro-choicers are advocating for is to have a guaranteed, peaceful and dignified exit that all humans can voluntarily access as a inalienable right. So far, this government, society, and this world has denied us said right while keeping us alive against our wills and keeping us suffering indefinitely until other causes (natural, man-made, or unforeseen) of death get us.

If anything, humanity and the modern world has become too prohibitive and also cruel in the sense that people are kept alive against their will whether they like it or not (or even forced, or at the least, coerced and pressured) into tolerating, enjoying, adapting, and/or even accepting this terrible existence!

 

[FuneralCry]

Death could never be too easy, I think that is such an absurd and nonsensical thing to say. And when it comes to suicide it could never really be straightforward, at least to me. Suicide is just too difficult in this world and it's inhumane how it's purposely made so as after all death is the only relief for so many who exist here, we shouldn't have to struggle to reach our inevitable fate.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Just like everything in life, a peaceful death- whether self imposed or natural seems to come down in a big way to luck. Or- bad luck really- if the person didn't actually want to die and/or they died horribly!

I wonder if cultures really are more resistant to death if it is more common. I don't know- I think part of our 'problem' is that death is more of a shock to us these days than maybe it was. I think we have an enormous amount of faith in modern medicine. It seems shocking to me that some conditions still have no cure. I just don't think people accept death in general very well in the modern era. I think maybe they just expected it more back in the day. Plus- they CLEARLY think that mental illness is either easily cured- or, it's all nonsense.

Plus- if EVERYONE is having a shit time of it- eg. in a recession- suicide rates rocket. I think the 'problem' in this era is- a lot of people (in the 'developed' world) APPEAR to have all they 'NEED'. To survive in any case. I doubt many people on here are starving- unless they are doing so by choice. So- to the 'normies'- they are most likely thinking- 'What the hell is wrong with these people? They have everything they need.' I actually wonder if there would have been more empathy when everyone was dealing with problems that they all understood- like starvation, the plague, war. I wonder if people were more similar in a way- back in the day. More compliant certainly. I think that's a VERY big difference today- people don't feel the obligation to comply so much. Including the obligation simply to live! Maybe that's an unfair, oversimplification though. Maybe back in the day, they just shoved their problematic relatives into assylums to be labotomized!

 

[SilentSadness]

Unfortunately, while death is common, peaceful death is very rare. Most methods are off-limits due to SI.

 

[TAW122]

Death could never be too easy, I think that is such an absurd and nonsensical thing to say. And when it comes to suicide it could never really be straightforward, at least to me. Suicide is just too difficult in this world and it's inhumane how it's purposely made so as after all death is the only relief for so many who exist here, we shouldn't have to struggle to reach our inevitable fate.

Indeed, and just many pro-lifers are ignorant and naive when it comes to death. They are so oblivious that they believe people who died happen to die easily (which is not always the case as most deaths are horrific, unplanned, undignified, and full of suffering).

Just like everything in life, a peaceful death- whether self imposed or natural seems to come down in a big way to luck. Or- bad luck really- if the person didn't actually want to die and/or they died horribly!

I wonder if cultures really are more resistant to death if it is more common. I don't know- I think part of our 'problem' is that death is more of a shock to us these days than maybe it was. I think we have an enormous amount of faith in modern medicine. It seems shocking to me that some conditions still have no cure. I just don't think people accept death in general very well in the modern era. I think maybe they just expected it more back in the day. Plus- they CLEARLY think that mental illness is either easily cured- or, it's all nonsense.

Plus- if EVERYONE is having a shit time of it- eg. in a recession- suicide rates rocket. I think the 'problem' in this era is- a lot of people (in the 'developed' world) APPEAR to have all they 'NEED'. To survive in any case. I doubt many people on here are starving- unless they are doing so by choice. So- to the 'normies'- they are most likely thinking- 'What the hell is wrong with these people? They have everything they need.' I actually wonder if there would have been more empathy when everyone was dealing with problems that they all understood- like starvation, the plague, war. I wonder if people were more similar in a way- back in the day. More compliant certainly. I think that's a VERY big difference today- people don't feel the obligation to comply so much. Including the obligation simply to live! Maybe that's an unfair, oversimplification though. Maybe back in the day, they just shoved their problematic relatives into assylums to be labotomized!

Yeah I think perhaps in the past, death was still shocking and while I cannot speak for others back then (as I was not alive in the past human eras, prior to the early 90's), I'm guessing death is still poorly received as in that people still actively avoid it, but there isn't some big paternalistic benevolent movement (CTB prevention and such) being plastered everywhere. Even earlier eras in human history, yes asylums and lobotomies were a thing and it is indeed horrifying. While the worst isn't around anymore (or at least much rarer than in the past), the paternalistic treatment and shameless promotion of CTB prevention and forced intervention (while intruding on one's personal liberties, freedoms, and privacy) is much more common in present day.

Unfortunately, while death is common, peaceful death is very rare. Most methods are off-limits due to SI.

That is very true, very few humans actually get to die peacefully whether it is having a peaceful drug while terminally ill, living to a really advanced age while dying in one's sleep, or just by random chance, a painless and quick death.

 

[irie]

i think that most people who make this claim are so unsympathetic about it because they themselves have never experienced anything close to what people like us have. they've never tried to die, so they don't know the slightest thing about SI or self preservation or about how hard it actually gets when you're actually on the verge of ctb to fight it off. they haven't known the suffering of those who have unfortunately met slow, grueling, and painful deaths (whether it be for or against their will), so they write it off as some simple thing. all death is terrible in some way, at least in my opinion. they're too ignorant to even consider that, though

 

[TAW122]

i think that most people who make this claim are so unsympathetic about it because they themselves have never experienced anything close to what people like us have. they've never tried to die, so they don't know the slightest thing about SI or self preservation or about how hard it actually gets when you're actually on the verge of ctb to fight it off. they haven't known the suffering of those who have unfortunately met slow, grueling, and painful deaths (whether it be for or against their will), so they write it off as some simple thing. all death is terrible in some way, at least in my opinion. they're too ignorant to even consider that, though

This is true, I think most people never experienced it, let alone have loved ones who did experience such events. Even if the latter was true, they often have a skewed perspective of death (partly because they are not the ones experiencing said experience). Death (for the most part, barring controlled and planned ones with a peaceful means) is indeed often gruesome and horrific, especially those who die in agony or with much pain and discomfort. I agree that most people are often too ignorant to even comprehend it and just digest the common prejudice and misconception of death being an easy event.